Orange

...and Bruno is so confident that they will beat Fossett's 58 day, 9.5 hour record that they only have 58 days worth of food onboard.

I read this and assumed that they will stop if they are not going to make it.

I wonder if he paid his own stupid entry fee 😛

He probably did because the entry fee is only 11k if you've applied for the JV trophy before! Prior to Fossett's RTW journey, they raised the fee to 30k for first timers of which Fossett was the only one. That still makes me brew.

yeah I don't think he would have given himself the one-finger-fossett-salute.

Don't you just love it when multi billion-airs bitch over pocket change ?

Wouter

which makes it even more relevant, considering its the whole odor of the JV entry fee crap that fossett wanted to thumb his nose at.

"you mean I have to PAY someone to sail around the world?!"

No, but if you want to claim the JV trophy, you do.

All others, and noteably alot less weathly projects, paid the fees also !

What makes Fosset special ?

I understand the funny part about raising the entry fee and yes maybe some Gallic pride is the blame here.

What what would be better than to show you could care less about that by laying the 32K in cash on the table have them write a receit on the spot and walk out with the memorable words :"And now get ready to loose your trophy !"

That would really put them on the spot.

Wouter

Right...and I don't think Fossett had a problem paying $11k to be eligible. It was the fact that he was the ONLY skipper that would have to pay the new $30k to be eligible for the trophy. Further complicating the political mess surrounding this, The JV comittee that made this decision was chaired by Mr. Bruno Peyron, who was also the trophy and RTW record holder at the time!

I don't think Steve Fossett really needs any more trophies and he knows he beat the record as well as any one else trying for it. I would not have payed the money either. I guess Steve Fossett can just make his own trophie for a lot less than 30K.
Why should you even have to pay to go for the JV trophie?
What does the money go for and who gets it? If you don't beat the record do you get your money back? What do you get for paying the fee?

Near the end of their run when it was becoming clear that they were going to break the record, Steve Fossett's organization attempted to renegotiate with the JV folks - saying that they would pay the same entry fee as everyone else. They were also arguing that it would seriously devalue the JV Trophy if it were no longer unified with the RTW record. The JV committee wouldn't budge. Steve Fossett gathered his crew onboard and put the question to them. They were given the option to have a ratified RTW record and $30k JV trophy or a ratified RTW and a $30k party when they finished.....they don't have the trophy.

Now, one can assume, that Bruno has a special desire to repair the symmetry between the JV trophy and the RTW record. They certainly have the boat that can do it and were serious (****) enough to only take enough food onboard with which to do so.

"only have 58 days worth of food onboard"

It is like throwing your hat over a fence, you have no choice but to climb the fence and get your hat back. If I were serious about a challenge I would do the same thing.

Plus if you get really hungry you can eat the cabin boy

He's a "multi billionaire" because he always bitched over pocket change. He was doubly right to bitch about this $30K and ultimately made the JV folks foolish by blowing them off.

Did he ?

The sailing world is dominated by the French, Aussies and New Zealanders; at some distance we get the Brits and even further out the Americans.

Once Fosset loses his record (which isn't a record officially in many aspects) he will be happily forgotten.

Now I'm not saying it is right ! I'm just saying that in these elites it matters HOW you've done things. And I can assure you that in the saling elites the way things are supposed to be done are different then the American way. Even if the French JV committee was wrong in the first place.

Don't shoot the messenger please,

Wouter

Define this statement please...because according to the body that ratifies records, it is.

It is not a JV record while many if not all of the others were.

Wasn't the course they sailed slightly different ? I know only at the beginning or the end and they WOULD have broken the JV as well if they tried but their is ambiquaty about it.

Wouter

It's recognized by the World Sailing Speed Record Council, so it is a true record in all aspects. The fact that JV doesn't recognize it doesn't mean anything, except Fossett didn't pay in advance to possibly have his name on the trophy if he would have made it. If you think the JVT is that important, I guess it would not be a record in all aspects, but to me WSSRC recognition is enough. I guess it depends on what spit you're standing on.

I think you're right, Wouter, that they did not finish in the right place to be recognized by JVC.

But they do have the Round the World record which is ratified and very official. The JV trophy is not "a record" but is an award for achieving the record. Fossett and crew very clearly have established the record for sailing around the world and there's no two ways to look at it.

Jeez Wouter what are you basing this statement on

I would put the Brits at the top

Best Olympic sailing team ever in last years Olympics, OK the French might hold the solo circumnavigation, but only until the weekend.

I think the USA are probably top of the honours table if you look at ISAF figures but they do have quite a lot more people participating than the rest of us.

Gareth

if the messanger doesn't want to be shot he shouldn't interject his opinion into the message...

You may not like it but it is the truth.

Who are driving the mini650, vendee globe, ORMA and round the world racing cirquits ?

Who has won the most of these cirquits. Who are BY FAR the most innovative with boat design ?

Who are the winners of the last "The Race" ? And who designed and build both the winners and the top 3 boats of THE RACE ? Who even thought up the race to begin with.

Who have gether most distance race records as a nation.

Who started F18 racing ?

And so on ...

Sorry guys but the answer in not the Brits or Americans.

The answer is still the French, Australians and New Zealanders. Sorry. Mike Golding and Ellen Mac. don't do more than close the gap a little bit. Fosset and Ogletree are exceptions to the rule. I have never seen a UK or US crew in the top 5 of F18 or A-cat class for example, both ISAF classes mind you ! And even in the H16 class the French and Australians won more than their fair share. Population of Aus = 18 million, New Zealand = 6 million or so; France about 50 million. Compare that to 230 million of the USA ?

Sorry guys: US isn't a biggy and the UK is a has been.

Don't shoot the messenger !

Wouter

And there you have the two reasons why the recognision will fall short of the achievement. And don't give me a hard time about it it is not I can change that for you guys.

If all future round the world records are again broken in the JV framework then the Fosset record will eventually be largely forgotten.

Hell I can setup a rival match racing event with the two AC boats outside of the AC framework were when the current AC holder loses we can all PRETEND that that is more valuable or more recognised than the fact that the loser STILL holds the AC cup. In the traditional enviroment of sailing elites however such rebelious attitudes are NOT valued and they see the holder of the cup as the rightful owner of the braggin rights.

Sorry, I'm a rebel as well, don't forget that. Why else would I sail cats ? Not real baots to the same elite.

Wouter

Like I said, depends on what spit you stand on. To me WGAF about the JVT, except those who stand to be paid for every attempt to break the record? ALL world sailing records are ratified by the WSSRC, not JVC, so to me the JV is really insignificant, sorry. Above that, if Peyron et al don't perpetuate the trophy by continuing to set the JVT record IT would be forgotten before a WSSRC record; I'd bet on that. For 30 G's (even 11) I'd rather have a big friggin party too! I think the JVC have a little too much hubris. If the elites would have made it an even playing field SF would have paid the 11 and been done with it, but the JVC wanted to be hard butts, so this is what they get. I hope Orange misses the WSSRC record by 30 sec, but obtains the JV.

I agree, the US is way behind the EU, AUS and Kiwis in our sport in almost every aspect (except good looks .

Wouter,

You are just picking out individual events to back up your claim, which is rubbish. Go and look at the sailing world records web site, http://www.sailspeedrecords.com. The USA dominates.

Look at the Olympic results www.sailing.org/olympics2004 the UK dominates, is that the UK being "has beens". In fact I wouldn't even have bothered to reply to this if you hadn't used the phrase "has been".

As for the most innovative boat design that would be me

Gareth

Wouter,

I'm not sure where this egotistical - anti-American sailing attitude is coming from but let me address a couple of these things with what you enjoy most...."actual data". Below I present the WSSRC list of records by skipper. If you'll notice on that list, it will be a LONG LONG LONG time before Steve Fossett is "happily forgotten". Such a statement is very childish, needlessly provoking, and uniformed.

Records held by skipper:

The next piece of actual data is the records by country (again, as presented by the sole global council that ratifies sailing records). France is strong, but they're not exactly dominating. And as Grob pointed out, if you also look at the largest, most recognized, 'global' course racing measurement (the Olympics), GBR is clearly dominating.

Records by Country

I don't know Gareth, what does the JV and around the world sailing compare to best.

Laser 1 sailing in the olympics of the ORMA / round the world sailing events ?

Take look here :

http://www.sailspeedrecords.com./transatlantic.html

7 French 2 USA no brits.

Then here :

http://www.sailspeedrecords.com./roundnonstop.html

5 French, 3.5 Brits, 2 USA and 0.5 NZL (Of the 5 last records since 1989 3 were held by French sailors)

Then look here :

http://www.sailspeedrecords.com./distancerun.html

Longest distance run in 24 hours :

By any yacht, any crew : Bruno Peyron (FRA) on Orange 706 NM at average 29.42 knots

By any yacht singlehanded : Laurent Bourgnon (FRA) On Primagaz 540.0 nautical miles, 22.50 knots

And then we go into the DEFINED records that are only records because we define other boats and sailor OUT of the comparison.

Up to 60 ft monohull, any number of crew : John Kostecki and crew (GER)

By monohull, any number of crew MariCha IV, Robert Miller GBR and a crew of 24, 140 ft monohull

By monohull, single-handed : AT Racing, Alex Thomson GBR,

Maybe we should ALSO define a 3 layered record framework for multihulls to make things fair again; Like Multihull up to 60 Foot (ORMA boats = French) ; Multihull to any length (Orange = French) and Multihull solo (Joyon = French).

With respect to

http://www.sailspeedrecords.com./ratified.html

passage records.

16 USA, 13 FRA and 11 GBR

BUT

FRA

Transpacific, Los Angeles – Honolulu
Transatlantic W to E, Ambrose Light - Lizard Point, singlehanded
Cadiz to San Salvador, Singlehanded
Transpacific W to E, Yokohama – San Francisco
Round the World, non stop, singlehanded
Transatlantic W to E, Ambrose Light to Lizard Point, single-handed female any vessel
Transatlantic E to W, Plymouth – Newport singlehanded
Round Britain and Ireland, all islands, non stop, monohull
Round the World, non stop, singlehanded, monohull
New York – San Francisco, non stop, crewed
Round the World, non stop, westabout, singlehanded

Cowes to Dinard, monohull and singlehanded.
Marseille – Carthage

USA (pretty much all Steve Fosset when doing his round the world on playstation)

Transpacific W to E, Yokohoma – San Francisco, singlehanded
Transpacific E to W, San Francisco – Yokohoma
Honolulu – Yokohoma
Round the World, non stop, crewed, any type
Round Britain and Ireland, all islands, non stop, crewed
Cadiz – San Salvador
Fastnet Course (Cowes-Fastnet Rock-Plymouth
Plymouth-La Rochelle
Transatlantic W to E, Ambrose Light – Lizard Point

Miami – New York
Newport, RI – Bermuda, singlehanded
Newport, RI – Bermuda
Thailand Gulf (Mitch Booth and Herbert Dercksen sailing for USA ? BS ! What kind of passage is Thailand Gulf on a beachcat ?
Round the Isle of Wight (This is like the UK round Texel!)

Honestly I think the last 5 verified USA records are a bit of a stretch. We can squable over the Miami-New York one but the others are just not regarded in the general public as serious records. And even the FastNet Course is not considered an ocean passage.

When looking at the French we might cross away the marseille -carthage and Cowes to Dinard. All trips of less then or about a day.

Lets look at the UK guys or rather WOMEN (Mainly Ellen).

Transatlantic W to E, Ambrose Light – Lizard Point, monohull
Transatlantic W to E outright women, and singlehanded woman
Sydney – Hobart
Round the World, non stop, singlehanded, woman, Vendée Globe
Bermuda to Plymouth
Transatlantic E to W, Plymouth – Newport, monohull and woman any vessel
Round Britain and Ireland, all islands, non stop, women
Round Ireland, (single-handed)
***
Round the World, assisted, westabout, (257 days !!!!! recreational sailors have done it quicker !)
Round the Isle of Wight, monohull, rule 5c (The UK round Texel)
Cowes – Dinard

4 records of the UK are because they were set by women instead of men out of 6 records that were set by women. So the UK is very emancipated but compared to 2 all out records held by French women of which one because she was a woman.

The last 3 records of GBR are a little funny.

Who are the record holders

I say that the smallest nation among these the French seriously outperform their size in relation to nations like GBR and USA. USA can thank Fosset on their knees as he is the one that holds 90% of the US records. However the French hold to important ones. The all-out records and the largest number of true big ocean pasages.

You guys may not like it but it is the truth.

And this is ONLY the WSSRC racing records, when we start adding race wins like in teh Minitransat and ORMA cirquits than the French come out even better. As well as the Aussies and NZl-ders

Again don't shoot the messenger

Wouter