Pointing on a Nacra 6.0NA

Try sheeting your main harder. Sheet your main in and steer up with it until the top leeward teltale starts to break. Then let out an inch and sail it. If your crew weight is high this will also effect pointing ability.

Whatever you do don't try to point with other boats. People always ask me how I get my boat to point so high. I always say that I never try to point. I'm always looking to foot. In other words pointing high comes naturally with going fast. The faster you go the higher you point.

Mike Hill
H20 #791

Usually the problem is that you are not sheeting the main hard enough. It is common to think that you have the main sheeted in tight, but if someone is following you behind your boat, they can see that the leech is falling way off.

The other usual problem is that the jib is sheeted too tight or is being sheeted from the wrong sheeting point, so it is backwinding the main.

Or it could be that you don't have your outhaul on the main tight enough or that you don't have the correct mast rotation (pointed toward the leeward sidestay).

Alec,

I too am having the same kind of problems. Nigel Pitt gave me some pointers a while back and said that you can't try and point this boat. That big jib just won't do it. "You gotta let the big dog eat". Besides the major points in the tuning guides, I've since found that getting the boat bow down upwind helps a lot and keeping the jib slot open is critical. I've raked the mast all over the place and STILL can't feel much difference.

I've been relatively competitive with the 6.0's I've raced against so far but I too am getting schooled by Hobie 20's around the buoys. In my defense, my sails have something like 1700 miles on them (x-worrell sails at least once and the previous owner and I have sailed the snot out of 'em). However, I have a new set sprawled across my pool table as we speak and I'll let you know how that turns out!

There's a tuning guide on catsailor by Jamie Diamond you might want to look at and you may want to join the N6.0NA forum as well. Links below:

Jamie Diamond tuning guide

Yahoo N6.0 group

Bow down - my skipper and I are right at minimum, and in light to medium air, we're sheeted right (not just tight) and our weight is forward. Give the leeward bow a good aggresive angle, and like Mike and Jake said, use that big jib to your advantage. When you're in the jib and it's drawing well, the combo of apparent wind and the boards will put you up where you need to be.

Good luck - coming to Nationals?

J

It is almost always the "slot" between your jib and main being too narrow or mast pre-bend. Barberhaulers are a crews best friend to correct the slot problem.

Doesn't going faster make your apparent wind direction change to more on the nose? This would mean the faster you go, the less high you can point - right?

There's a sweet spot between boat speed and pointing ability that will get you to A mark faster for any given boat. I'm pretty sure that sailing faster will not help you point higher.

If your main has a large draft or old battens this will cause the problem you have mentioned. Some times a little over rotation on the mast with an older sail with older battens will help flatten the sail so you can get a clean slot while you are pointing. Sometimes it will make it fatter. Depends on if it is a square top or a pinhead. A larger set of foam battens in the lower part of the sail will help too. Of course..... If you dont sheet properly it is all for not. I have actually bent 2 clew travellers from sheeting my sails in hard. But I can point with the best of them.

No one has mentioned the jib car placement. Another critical issue when you are trying to get the 6.0 to point. I'm assuming mid-track and traveled in about 1 fist from the hull. I dont know because I use a monster jib on mine (makes an NA jib look like a sliver). The NA guys will have to help you with that one. I'm sure Rick or Captain Kirk would know. They are always willing to give good advice.

Good luck!

AJ
Nacra 6.0 Express

Hey Alec. Just had to laugh, your first response was from a H-20 driver. Sage advice.

"Doesn't going faster make your apparent wind direction change to more on the nose? This would mean the faster you go, the less high you can point - right? "

Right, and wrong too. Sailing theory is quite diverse, and contradicts itself sometimes. By footing off & going for speed, you load up the centreboards which gives you drive to windward, so although you are footing off you are actually pointing higher than someone who is pinching & going slow. His heading may be higher than yours, but becuase he isn`t loading up the foils, he will be slipping sideways. You`ll get there first.

Cheers
Steve

I had to look up "Sage advice" to see if I was being slammed.

"Proceeding from or marked by wisdom and calm judgment: sage advice. "

Heck, I'll take that.

Mike Hill
H20 #791

There is really no way you can improve boat speed without relativity to another boat. You have gotten a lot of advice -- a lot of it may be right. But, I don't believe there is any magic place to set your main or jib. Everything is relative to the wind, the seas, your crew weight.., in other words, the old Three W's of Wind, Water and Weight.
That is where Speed Testing comes in.
In my latest book, "Sailing Drills:" there is a section on Speed Testing. Basically, you need at least two boats. One boat must stay the same no matter what -- you need a constant.
You should line up so that one boat does not affect the other's wind. Then sail for about two minutes and determine if one boat went faster and by how much, and one boat sailed higher and by how much.
Record that and do it over and over until you have established an average.

Now experiment with changes on one of the boats.., should be the one that is performing worse. You can try jib lead positions, mast rotation, mast rake, sheet tension, and even different styles of sailing.
But, be sure to try only one at a time and try it a number of times to get realistic data.
If the winds are fluky, forget about it -- try it on another day when the winds are pretty steady.
By the way, the data you would be gathering would be valuable ONLY for that wind, water and weight condition. Keep that in mind.

I know we spent close to a week here in Key Largo a number of years ago tuning the N6.0NA and came up with some pretty good numbers. Then folks started sailing with a more radical aft mast rake and our numbers went out the window. Sorry to say we never Speed Tested again after that to find the new magic numbers.

Also, the "loose nut on the tiller" could be a problem. Some folks are pinchers.., and others are footers. A good way to find out which you are is to try my "Eyes Closed Drill."
Simply go out sailing with another similar boat and get in what you think is your groove. Once there the Skipper closes his or her eyes and sails by feel. You are only eliminating of you senses -- you still have 4.., or maybe 5 in some cases, left. Use them. Feel the wind in your hair on your arms, feel the waves, the heeling of the boat, listen to the telltales tickle on the sail, etc.
After sailing for about 5 minutes, relate how you are doing with the other boat. One boat may be much higher (pincher) and the other much lower (footer).
In my Sailing Seminars I do this drill with the entire class and find it amazing the differences in helmsmanship.
Once you discover you are a natural footer, practice working on going higher. If you discover you are a pincher, practice driving off and getting more speed.

To give you exact place to put your jib settings, how must mast rake, how hard you sheet, etc. would be impossible to do in this armchair position we are all sitting in right now.
It takes work.

Generally, I will say this. The first day of every seminar I try to espy general sheeting of each boat. I would have to say that usually 90 to 100% of the students are not sheeting the main enough. The 90% is exact, and once in a while I will get a student that understands you need to sheet the main much harder than the jib. But, that is rare.
Of course, as mentioned in previous posts, you can't sheet in tight until you get flow across the boards and rudders. Once that flow is established, you can sheet the main very hard in most cases. Most folks err in the direction of losing gobs of power by not sheeting enough.
So, in essence, with your main not sheeted too tight, you are powering up (in 2nd gear), but not pointing very well. Once there is flow across the boards, you can sheet in and flatten out the sail (shift to high gear).

At any rate,
Good luck
Rick

I had the same problem. The main cause is that monster overlapping jib. The comments I am giving were based on me trying to run a windward leeward course against A-Class cats. We had changed from a reach dominated course because nothing could touch the 6.0NA. When the A's showed up, I really regretted that.

1) Watch for the jib back winding the main. When you see it ease off. Back winding you can't really see hurts. Try adding a tell tail to the main ~ 1/3 of the jib height up and 12-18 inch aft of the mast.

2) Jib sheeting position is important. Start with the track centered and the traveler about 3 inches from the inside of the hull. Move it about an inch out for heavy air and a 1/2 inch in for light air. This is a starting point, find out what your sails like. Sheeting the jib properly is important. Sheeting it board flat all the time, will not cut it. If in doubt, ease the jib a little.

3) You don't have a boom. Some of the comments from H20 sailors can hurt you. Talk to 6.0 and 5.8 skippers. You are basically pulling down on the leach and depending on the cut of the sail to set the draft. IF you sheet too hard, you can hook the leach. You can try moving the mainsail traveler forward 1/2 inch and sheeting HARD with both hands. Get someone to take photos from behind.

4) Try using your mast rotation inducer as a rotation limiter. (This is tricky, with the rotation inducer, you must release and reset the inducer every time you tack. If you forget you can break your mast.) If it helps you can put a real rotation limiter on. Basically you want to limit the rotation to the centerline of the mast pointing at the shroud (the H20 sailors can help you with this).

If all else fails, fall off and point with the Tornado's. We love to watch the 6.0's trying hold the boat down when the wind picks up. If you see me trying to point too high, kick me hard when we get back to the beach.

iro-ny, n. use of words to express the opposite of what one really means.

I think his comment related to the original post being about how the guy's getting dogged by H20s around the marks and you chimed in, albeit with good advice, but with "Hobie 20" proudly in your signature block. I got a grin out of that, too. The good-natured battle between between the 6.0 and the H20 continues!

J

What battle? I thought that the H20s were long gone! (In the rear that is)

We're baa-aack!!!

Carl,

You lost me with the tell-tale to detect that you're backwinding the main. I would certainly welcome some sort of tool to indicate this condition but I don't understand how the extra tell-tale can do it.

Barberhauler is a nice tool to control that slot... and as far has H20's being long gone, I think the class racing is as good as any.

One of the best ways to keep the slot open is to ensure that the jib has proper twist in its shape, which opens the leech up keeping the slot open from top to bottom. The best way to do this is move your cars back - this goes against some folks advice to move cars forward to open the slot. Moving cars forward opens the slot at the bottom of the sail (simple geometry), but kills the twist and closes the upper slot.

Barberhauling upwind may give a more open slot at the bottom of the sail, but it will tighten the leech which will close the slot higher up. The effect is similar to sliding your jib cars forward. You would need to find the right combo of sheeting angle to barberhauling to get a good shape with proper twist.

I've always found that when upwind speed or pointing doesn't feel right, the first thing I do is sheet the jib out a little and make sure the bows are down. You're better off with the jib slightly luffing than sheeted hard and closing off the main.

Although I'm not a 6.0 sailor, this has worked on just about anything I've sailed.

the 6.0 has a 4 way jib car adjustment with the cable running across the trampoline. I can't imagine having to use the barberhauler upwind because there is already so much adjustment - does anyone do this on their 6.0?

If you really want to point, best thing to do with the jib on a Nacra 6.0 is to install a zipper fore-and-aft and open up the zipper when you're going upwind so the jib doesn't mess up the main.

Did you ever notice how much better a sloop rig goes upwind in a breeze when the leech of the jib rips open?

Actually, I'm sort of serious.

I appreciate everyone's advice. I'll keep these things in mind the next time I'm out.

Alec,

(To everyone else - I was Crew that night)

Physical - crew weight - 225lbs
Winds - +20's that night
Seas - 1-2ft (wouldn't you say?)

Guys,
This was the first time I had ever crewed on a 6.0na. One thing we were trying to do was point as well as another 6.0na also! (we were close). I remember Ricks rules "Weight, wind, waves" "keep the power on when all are heavy.

The jib car was in the rear most position, and yes, I was traveling in on the jib. I kept an eye on the main, checking for backwind conditions - I evened lossened the jib up at times to double check - that big jib would luff up in a heart beat! I did use the barberhauler on the down wind legs - she was fast there. I though maybe we were running to tight and I eased the downhaul to almost nothing (hoping to help her power up) but she seemed to run just as fast on the blade.

There has to be something else - or maybe you guys are right and I was choking the slot do to much (that was the only position were the jib had good shape)

I tried to get my weight as far forward as I could (front beam or better - until the waves knocked my feet out from under me).

Like Rick said Alec - I'm a pincher - sorry Dude, but thanks for the ride Tuesday night shes a blast to sail - great power!

Hang in there - you'll run down Keith on that H20 before to long!

Ballast

I sure wish we could find a couple of 6.0s reasonably near by that would want to spend a weekend testing and tuning (I'm in Greenville, SC) - or maybe we could get together a couple of days early before a major event.

Hi Alec,

Where is the crew when you are pointing ?
I other words where is the crew weight ?
My experience is to place is as much to the front as possible, experiment on that.
Please klet me know what happens.

Isn't that terribly light?

Andrew - The crew alone was 225 lbs and the skipper must be an easy 180 for an all up of 405 lbs. The chop was pretty good in some places and a good head of steam was needed to power on through. Winds were mixed, no trap, single trap and double trap. Alec is doing well with this boat having just started on it this year and he is usually in the front mix but of course has a tough Portsmouth number to deal with. It won't be long before we're seeing more of his transomes. Then we'll have to start throwing things at him.

An easy 180 huh? Wow, being tall cetainly has a sliming affect. I'm now pushing 208. Thanks for the encourageing words guys, I appreciate it.

Jake, we've got 3 Nacra 6.0's in our fleet, feel free to come up to the annapolis area and race with us sometime.

Also I found a 6.0 original jib to work better than the NA jib on windward leeward courses. A new rig Tornado jib (self tacking) should work and since this is an Olympic run year the used ones should be fairly cheap

Carl has raised a point that I have been pondering (thinkin bout) lately. Does a larger jib i.e. low aspect with a somewhat longer foot hinder pointing ability verses a high aspect jib with a shorter foot i.e. Tornado (new) and I-20? Other than windage would you be better off with the jib furled and going uni to weather? The second one is a bit extreme but hey, what if? Don't tell Alec but we are overipening tomatoes this weekend in case he passes us Tuesday night.