question re: righting

rope tied around the mast works best for me. not sure about the other methods, but levering the mast out of the water always seems like the easiest method to me.

Sorry I can't help with your question, but someone will come along soon who can!

If the rope is tied around the base of the mast, you have a couple of potential problems. One is that the mast might possibly be pulled off of its perch. The other is that the righting line may interfere or hinder mast rotational movement while under way.

If the rope was tied around the hull, it may pivot around so that the righting line would not aim at the upper most portion of the hull, but rather the portion of the hull closest to where you are pulling from.

You do have one more option that will avoid the stress on the tramp grommet that you are apparantly trying to avoid. The righting line rope can be tied to the dolphin striker and then tossed over the skyward hull, without passing throug the grommet. This will work the same as if it were run through the grommet before being tossed over the skyward hull.

Happy Righting! I would like to urge you to make sure that your mast is sealed, airtight and then to go out and do some practice capsizing and recovery so that you won't be surprised by the righting process after being surprised by an accidental capsize.

GARY
Capsize Corrector

But the info I've seen from Prindle warns about doing anything that might bend/fold/mutilate the dolphin striker (since it's the "spine" of the boat, so to speak). Have you ever heard any problem in this regard?

Also, regarding looping around the mast, my thought was that I'd keep the line in my tramp pouch and tie (or fast clip) it on at the time of capsize. Is that too ambitious to think that could be done quickly?

Thanks for the info so far!

Kevin

By the way, how do I check to see if the mast is airtight (short of taking it to the beach and throwing it in)? Is there a "backyard" way of accomplishing this?

Thanks again,
Kevin

I have used the method of securing the line to the dolphin striker many times on the P16 and P18. You don't want to ever use the striker to tie the boat down to the trailer or to tow the boat if needed, but for a righting line the line should be tied to the rod and the moment on the rod with the line just below the beam is minimal and will never break or bend that 1/2" rod. Just never use a powerboat to pull it up or tow it from that point.

Hi Kevin

I tie my righting line to the dolphin striker only. The dolphin striker is very strong when subject to loads from the side. DO NOT let anyone use the righting line to pull your boat up on the beach (fore/aft load). This will easily bend the dolphin striker. If you tie a monkeys fist on the righting line it will be easier to throw over the hull from down in the water.

The other thing that helps righting the boat (especially if you are alone) is to swim to the end of the mast and hang on. The boat will blow down wind from you. When it does swim back to the boat and use the righting line like a trapeze.

FOR PRINDLES: be carefull where you put your weight on the side on the hull. The bottom of the hull is strong, but the inside can not take the pressure of a person standing on it and can delaminate. Pull yourself up from the water using the righting line like you are trapezing off the bottom of the hull - dont stand on the hull and then lower your self toward the water. Lots of prindles had delamination damage from capsize.

When the boat comes up make sure it is spun into the wind. Everyone remembers to uncleat the mainsheet and the traveler - but the jib is the most important sheet to let free (on both sides!). It is easiest to get aboard using the dolphin striker as a step. One would think getting aboard is no more difficult than doing a pullup - but when you are wet and cold it can be tough.

For safety's sake: be very careful of your trapeze hook. Do not let it catch any rigging while you are in the water.

By letting the boat blow downwind I was able to right my old P-16 alone, and I weighed 120 lbs at the time (17 years ago).

Enjoy the Prindle. Those are neat boats.
talk to you later
-colin

Run the line through the grommet in the trampoline and then tie it to the dolphin striker center post. Any pull on the rope pulls it to the top of the striker where it is strongest and it doesn't pull too much on the trampoline.

Hi Kevin

Rick advertises a power pole righting system that folds up under the tramp that makes righting easier and provides added leverage from the extended pole.
- http://store.catsailor.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jropdpmoo

If you have 2 the righting line works {tied most anywhere } except crews leg thrown over the top hull of sufficent length to allow you to extend out paralell just above the water for max leverage ,then reaching up as the boat begins to right . Some use 2 lengths of larger soft righting line of about 10 ft each tied from each crossbeam end .
There is also something H sailors used to call the Hawian righting system ,-that is just perminent line along the deck length and crossbeam with added shockcord keeping it in place ,but allowing it to extend and used as righting line if you go over ,--Its also handy for the crew to hang onto for extra security on the wire in seas being tied from the stern lead to front crossbeam then diagonally under tramp continuous to the other side w shockcord holding the added length underback to the stern .
Its pretty simple ,-but some say it drags under in waves and is in the way of your feet on the wire.

One thing you must do if capsized on a cat is get the bows pointed into the wind ,-if not then your fighting wind on the tramp , or wind with it ,in which case the boat may right quickly in higher winds and sail away without you
You can get the boat pointed into the wind on its side by either standing out on the bow side and letting the stern swing down wind ,--or just swim the bows head to wind if this doesn,t work .
As the boat rights be carefull as it lands hard ,--do not swim to the back to get back up on the tramp ,-again the boat may turn downwind with you acting as sea anchor and just sail away . grab the front crossbeam and lever yourself up there if possible .
In sailing with female crew I,ve added an extra trap handle on a short lead ,--something crew can reach up and pull themselves up on rather than just a crossbar and ackward height .--the good crew can walk around the front crossbean as it rights and not get wet --again
this takes some practise.
Of course the really good crew doesn,t let you capsize in the first place

Added note --in more severe winds and lighter weight boats the boat may try to continue and flip over again with the righting momentum ,-you must grab hold of the front crossbeam to keep this from occuring ,--again only in much higher winds . -- Really severe winds can just take your cat and cartwheel it away numerous times ,--thats 40 50 mph type storm conditions , if your caught out and did not make it to the beach in time ,just sit it out on the side ,-hopefully you have a cell phone or marine radio in a w p bag with you if your ocean or great lakes sailing .

If your in high wind gusting conditions you may experience a complete inversion {mast down} known affectionetly as a turtle . --To escape this provided the mast is well sealed and not stuck in mud or weeds ,{which always looks good after righting mud and weeds dripping down }
You take the righting line from the opposite crossbar corner to the end of the inverted stern you and crew need to get on ,--this pulling and diagonal torking effect should raise the hull to one side where you can proceed to right .

The best way to check the mast is just take it off the trailer and walk out in the shallows and hold it under while looking for any bubbles.
Getting water out and sealing em can be a real bugger ,
others can advise on that aspect better.

lots of good advice here from many -
Hope that helps
good sailing
Carl

Good explanation, Carl.
I just want to add that it is probably not a good or safe idea to swim out to the end of the mast to get the boat turned into the wind, ESPECIALLY if you are singlehanding. As Carl said, you can do the same thing by going up on the bow of the boat. If you are at the end of the mast and the boat rights itself, you will be about 30 feet away from the boat and it can easily sail away without you.

Wow, thanks to everyone for the useful info. I appreciate all the input. I will hopefully try a couple of controlled dumps soon (when the water gets warmer!!!)

Kevin

Hi Mary,
How about the drag chute off the bow to turn the boat into the wind? Next how about forcing the leech of the mainsail down to the water and then the lift from the mainsail will right the boat. No righting line required.
Bill

Bill,
What diameter drag chute?
(say for a 16'-20' cat)
Can you sheet in the main on the low side to keep the leech down in the water?
My guess is 12-15 kn of wind would be needed for this method?
How about adding drag chute off the high hull at lower wind ranges?
Thank,
Chris

Hi Chris,
Four to five feet in diameter will do the job.
Free up the traveller control line. Sheet the main in tight. Stand on the side of the mainsheet block.
If you turn over in less than 12kn, you have big problems.
Bill

Hey Kevin,

Old P18 owner…..

First, here is where your righting lines should be,

File Attached

You’re looking at the under-side of the boat (all lines under tramp). The red line is your righting line. The Blue line is a bungee cord.

The righting line: On the bottom of the front cross member there should be 2 small grommets/loops that the righting line passes through and is knotted off. The righting line is free to slide through the loop

The Bungee cord: the bungee cord is fixed to the front cross beam and then runs the length of the tramp to the rear beam. At the rear beam there is a loop attached to the inside/bottom of the beam. The bungee is free to slide through the loop. On the end of the bungee in the rear is a pulley that the righting line runs through.

When you go over….: (as the other have stated)
1) Pull in on main sheet to center and cleat. (the wind will get under the sail and aid in righting the boat)
2) Swim to the bow and climb on = Boat will turn slowly into the wind (bow will be under water – that’s ok)
3) When she’s into the wind, scurry down to the front cross beam and grab the top righting line knot and flip it over the upper hull (the one out of the water)
4) Hold onto the knot and lean baby….. lean! She should pop back up.

Sorry Diagram didn't make it

Thanks, Marschassault. I'd really like to see that diagram you're talking about. Are you not able to attach it for some reason? If not, try sending it to my email at papayamon2@yahoo.com

Have you owned a Prindle before, by the way? You sound like you speak from experience...

Kevin

I've had my P-18 since about 1988. I've always run the righting line from the dolphin striker over the top hull. With two people, righting is fairly simple as long as the mast is pointed upwind. I've even managed to right it with my wife (102 lbs soaking wet)as crew. (well, she was skipper when we dumped!)

These days I also carry a Solo`Right whether I have a crew or not. That gives me an extra margin for righting in case we get tired/cold etc.

Sheldon
P-18

OK, one more question... Some people seem to be saying to point the bow into the wind to right the boat, while others are saying to point the mast into the wind. Are we really talking two different things, or do both of these mean the same?

Your best bet, under normal wind conditions, is to have the mast pointing into the wind. That way, the breeze is working with you to help lift the sail. As the boat comes upright, it will start to rotate to where the bows are pointing into the wind anyway. In any event, you don't want the mast pointing downwind as you will battle until your arms are tired.

Sheldon

The older righting style was to point the mast into the wind, but the more recent way is to point the bows into the wind. Then the wind is more easily able to get under the sail and help with the righting process. And when the boat comes up, it will be pointed into the wind instead of in a reaching position where it wants to sail away -- or flip over again the other way.

P.S. Unless you use Bill Roberts' idea of a parachute anchor to hold the bows into the wind, it is difficult to get the bows closer than 45 degrees to the wind just by sitting or standing on the bows. But 45 degrees still works fine.

Bows into the wind is the ticket...trust me. Tie a line from the area between the beam and the mast(dolphin striker bolt) and toss it over the hull, Have your crew walk out to the tip of the lower bow until the cat weather vains into the wind, then rush back to you and sit in your lap, or, never mind, then get your weight as low as possible. Once you get the tip of the mast out of the water the wind will assist with the rest, if you have wind. If no wind, you may have to climb the rope in ordr to get momentum. Using this method we have righted a H-20 in under 1 minute.

I'm really not trying to drag this thread on, but I do have one more question (again) that's come up in reviewing the posts so far. Some say (and I have read in some books) to uncleat the main sheet , while others here are saying the center the traveller and sheet in tightly. I guess the difference comes down to whether a sheeted main hinders the righting process (perhaps by water caught on top of the mainsail?) or helps the righting process (by allowing wind to catch under the sail and provide upward force). From a professed newbie at righting: Which is it??

Thanks!
Kevin

Well, we all have our takes on a few points here but on this one I think we'll all agree: don't sheet in when righting the boat! Water is, what, 8 pounds per gallon? There's a pile of weight to try to overcome, regardless of the strength of the wind. Secondly, assume the wind helped you to raise the sail. In that case, if it's sheeted in, what stops the sail from coming up and the boat now going right over the other way? Additionally, assuiming the boat stayed upright, a sheeted in sail has power in it, and the boat can take off without you on it!

Sheldon

That's what I would have thought, although the first post by Marschassault (above) says differently. Are there really multiple ways to do everything when righting a cat? 🙂

Kevin

Of course! There are different ways to skin a cat!
Some of the minor differences are there because we all sail in varying conditions, assorted boats, solo or with crew, etc. but I will state again that I would never right a boat with the mainsheet cleated hard. It just makes no sense to me.

Sheldon

Getting that mast 45 deg off the wind is not always so simple! Cost me the championship in the last H-17 CC's in Lk Carlyle! I really like the idea of the chute/sea anchor to get the bows into the wind! I also plan to experiment with the idea of letting the sail lift the mast. I'm thinking that leading the Mainsheet UNDER the floating hull will enable you to maintain the main sheeted tight AND in the full travelled-out position. With the "chute" keeping your bows closer to the wind, I can see the possible mechanism in this technique being a real winner! Can't wait to try it out! Anyone know if such a "chute"/sea anchor is readily available? One word of caution I would add...using a righting bag for add'l weight can be a real challenge, and potentially dangerous if the boat rights and gets powered up (yes it can & does happen!)...that bag can drag you under real quick. JOHN

Hey John!

<- Tad

Nice to see you made your way on here

In reality, your sail still helps you get the boat up even though it's not sheeted and centered. Watch the sail of a capsized boat being righted next time. You'll see the boat slowly coming up until enough of the mast is exposed for the wind to get under the sail. As soon as the sail fills with air underneath, it lifts off the water and makes 'the wing'. The boat pops up almost immediately. This is why it's so important to get the bows of the boat pointed into the wind. It's also the reason that if you capsize on a very light air day, righting will be much more difficult.

If you were to center sheet the mainsail while the boat was capsized, it would give it a head start - but we know what happens when it comes up with the main sheeted...it rolls back over the other way because the bows were never straight into the breeze to begin with. However!, if you have the sea anchor attached as Bill suggested, this should keep the bows pointed into the wind throughout righting so that when the boat is pointy side up, it is still pointed straight into the wind.

I have not tried the sea anchor but it sounds like a neat idea. And yes, they're readily available - try West Marine.