Sailing World Cup - Palma de Majorca

Those rankings are goofy, has the fleet been split to gold and silver?

Good to see all three Sarah teams there!

Mike

I heard that the Sarah Lihan that sails with Taylor Reiss was injured and headed home. It also looks like Sandra T. is heading over but she usually helms and that will imipact Taylor's ISAF ranking if he ends up crewing (all according to Jill's post on Robbie Daniel's Facebook).

Wow. Sandra is a great sailor, I'm sure they'll work it out. Hope Sarah L recovers quickly!

Mike

I wonder if Enrique is eligible to qualify PUR sailing with an American?

Anyone know why Robbie would get a UFD?

I didn't find the SIs for this regatta, but there is a new procedure being used at ISAF events: the U-flag start. Basically, the same as a black flag start, except the penalty goes away if the race is abandoned and resailed.

Their scorer needs help. They are scoring as one combined fleet of two groups, but updated the overall results after one group sailed, skewing the overall results. Sarah and John are in 22nd after the full set of race 3 results.

Mike

JC and Sarah up to 16th place!!!!!!!!!!

Ugh, sailed a new throwout in Race 8.

Looks like Taylor locked up first place in silver fleet at the end of the qualifying round.

Mike

Todd, the SIs are up on the same site as the results, and they are using the U-flag starts as I described above.

Mike

Some nasty nosedives today:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=757950384224835

Pretty crazy stuff. We all know that turning that corner in breeze is probably the hairiest part of cat sailing. I wonder if some of those flips resulted in others? If the trailing teams had their hands full watching and avoiding traffic, or in this case, speed bumps, it may have distracted them just enough to detract from their own boat handling.

Or, it may have just been the wind...

Mike

Another video, this time with terrible music:

Ya have to love the USACA helpful design hint..

Tough conditions! Winglets would help.

I still argue the boat is half done and ISAF should have had it fixed... When guys like BUNDY, pro of all pro's can't keep the pointy end up... something is wrong.

How windy does it look? Any idea what the readings were at the top mark?

Olympic buoy racing should not be a game of survivor.... it should be about boat speed and tactics with the luck factor minimized.

Watching the video above and a couple others from the bear away, I got the impression that the capsizes were mostly due to:
1. Being overly aggressive with skipper on the wire and entering the bear away with the hull flying. With only one hull in the water you lack buoyancy up front. Having the timing of the crew going forward to hoist wrong almost looked to contribute to some.
2. Some boats had to alter their bear away to avoid another capsized boat. Then, they are forced to try to bear away while down speed, which is very difficult.

If you watch the video, Billy Besson shows the way to do it. Skipper and crew on the deck, both hulls in, jib well eased, delay the hoist until you get the bows down. Maybe that is why he is the defending world champ and currently winning the event.

All of life is, technically, a game of survivor.

Watch a replay of the last Tornado race of the Olympics in Qingdao, I recall multiple boats going over that day, 30 knots is just a lot of wind regardless of which cat you sail.

That was 30K on the race course??? It sure does not look it.

And you make my argument with Quindago (sp) The medals were not determined by unlucky crash and burns caused by a not ready for prime time boat.

I get that ISAF and Nacra have a lot of capitol invested in the boat.... but just like the fable.... the emperor has no clothes...so FIX IT....... USACA told. em... put some rudder winglets on that boat.... Yesterday!

OR... you can say... well... Rio won't be windy in the summer... chances are the medals won't be impacted by bad luck preying on the boat's half baked design. It IS a plan.. YMMV as to the merits.

Mark, the best teams make their own luck. The boats have equal design, and the teams have to decide how much time, and in what conditions, to prepare. The best teams will figure out how to best sail the boat, as designed, not how they (or anyone else) wish it was designed.

So long as all of the boats are the same, it's a fair event.

Besides, part of the whole draw to have a cat in the Olympics, Americas Cup, and any of us racing them, is the NASCAR aspect: the boats are fast, and it could all go wrong at any given moment.

Mike

What if the winglets lead to some other new problem! ?

Also consider that even if they were perfect right out of the box, they would certainly change the way the boat handles on all angles of sail. If I had been training and testing and working all of this time, I might be pretty upset at some new forced change to the boat that caused me to go back to square 1.

These guys and girls can get this boat to turn around A-mark just fine. They're all just pushing it at the limit of what it can handle and we're seeing those that are finding where that limit is. I mean, seriously, they could raise the leeward board or some other means to reduce the pitching moment if they really needed to.

Mike

Fair event

is a red herring... the gear is one design.. fair is not at question.

the best guys make their luck

is arm chair pundit like trope...

Luck is luck and not the same as fairness OR excellence.. don't conflate them. We manage luck by running regattas with 10 events and allow a throw out.

ISAF long ago screwed that basic principle of the game with double points in the medal event.. Why... because to attract eyeballs... they figured that the average viewer would not appreciate the game... (Why is the winner sitting on the beach with 9 first place finishes and NOT sailing in the last race???) SO... add in the possibility of

BAD LUCK

in a double points medal race and the game would be better ???.... YMMV.. but I think its crap.

RE... NASCAR... ... it could all go wrong at any minute... IF that is a design parameter for all dinghies in the Olympics... Fine... BUT IT IS NOT... The design parameter was a boat that allowed the Olympic level of skill to sort itself out on the race course of 30 minutes or so duration (short courses) ... Nothing to do with luck or crashing and burning spectacle.

Jake, ... re winglets possibly causing problems and certainly changing the boat's performance

ISAF allowed and insisted on MULTIPLE FIXES to the 49ner when the boat was selected... IT WAS also half baked and was mostly Fixed by the the last two years of the quad.

Secondly... the Norwegian program of 49ner medalists splitting up and starting on the N17 began a few months ago... and one pair was top 10 at the last look.... So, Basically... the best in the world can't manage the changes is a weak argument..

Equally lame... is the argument.. well they are really good and they can manage a half baked boat... TRUE but WHY should they have to...

We deserved a better process from the ISAF technical committee AND better attention by ISAF to the last two years.
Now they are in a pickle... The N17 is the boat for the NEXT quad as well for the MIXED .. So.. what do they do now... finish the quad (too late now for changes)... and THEN redesign the boat... There is no good time other then getting it right in the beginning.

Well, I tried... <img src="<>/whistle.gif" alt="whistle" title="whistle" height="15" width="15" />

Mike

<img src="<>/tired.gif" alt="tired" title="tired" height="15" width="15" />

So, OK. in the plus column we have:
- We should have winglets because it could potentially make the boat easier to sail.

On the other hand we have established:
- if the boat has some pitch-pole tendency, the races could be more exciting to watch
- winglets might change the tuning or sailing technique of the boat causing teams to have lost a lot of time and energy learning to sail the boat to date
- winglets might induce some other type of issue.

I fail to believe that nobody can safely navigate A-mark on the Nacra 17. It's only that the lifting foil makes your mistake bigger when you push it too hard. I PROMISE you, the winners aren't stuffing it at the top of the course.

On the bright side, at least he's let go of the mixed vs. unisex crew topic...

Mike

Fun videos coming in from that race. I don't know what they are doing competing in a high wind zone when the Brazil medals will, in all probability, be won in the light stuff.

There look to be quite a few non-cat sailors racing this new boat learning how to pitchpole, and presumably figuring out how not to pitch. The right winglets would help, but they seem to do just fine w/o them. People have shown that you can still pitchpole with very large winglets.

I think raising a C board would make the nose dive more not less. Raising the boards in the strong wind reduces healing moment, but gets rid of the bow lifting that the curved boards were giving.

ps i agree that the medal race with double points adds to the luck factor, and was prolly put there by administrators for the fan's benefit.

When you put a lot of pressure on the bows and they start to get deeper in the water to resist that pressure, those C-boards that previously had a positive angle of attack and were providing lift, are now providing a diving force. They actually force the bows to go deeper and the pitch poll (or stuffing) more severe.

In other words, when they stop being part of the solution, they become part of the problem REALLY fast! <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

Thanks for the vid post...

That is my favorite disaster move... a peter pan (maybe tinkerbell in the god for saken MIXED displine) off the back of the boat... into a stuff and then right into a turtle...

It looked like the wave action was a bigger factor then the wind... It sure doesn't look like 30 knots ...does it?

So... T foils or more bow in a longer boat... Oh... you don't say... ISAF choose NEITHER! Wonder why?
(Jake explained why if you put the C foils on... you have to put the T foils on as well... so thanks for helping make my point! (grin)

I wonder why other classes never thought that marketing crash and burn disaster flicks was the way to grow the sport... they must be stupid or something.

Sadly, ISAF did put cat sailors on these committees...and so we own the result.

Or, you could look at this another way. There are plenty of safe (and slow and boring) boats from which to choose while chasing Olympic gold.

Mike

Were you paying attention to one of the greatest America's Cup's ever? (and, no, I'm not talking about the fact that they had foils on the rudders). The boats were on the verge of wiping out and it was exciting.

They were in 20-25knots of breeze in giant surf rounding the top of the course with the crew on the wire. Umm..yeah, they're pushing it probably a little harder than they needed to be. Don't blame the boat.

Actually NO... i don't remember the boats on the verge of wiping out... Fact of the matter.. they put wind limits on to MAKE SURE the boats had little chance of crashing...

What I remember was the incredible racing where the winner figured out their boat resulting in an epic RACING comeback.

What I remember is the one almost wipe out came when the guys hydralic failed and the wing did not pop.

In fact... had the AC been about crashing and burning... and avoiding sudden death... chances are there would be no more cats in the event..

Pitchpoles and turtles are NOT winning messages.