SC20TR - Bill Roberts

Eric & Bill,

Great Job! The one (only one picture) picture on the Catsailor website shows you guys "heated-up" - looks like she was running good.

I guess the question "thommerrill" was asking was what was the difference between the two SC20's??

Anyway - Looks like you guys were smoken'. That Asym Spin looked good (looks like a reacher). nice to see a ~ 20 year old boat doing well (no comment on the age of the "crew")

Does anyone else find it ironic that a tired 21year old SC 20 won the Key Largo Steeplechase, and the latest and greatest (M20) by arguably one of the best boat builders on the planet came in dead last on the first leg because of equipment failure? Sure it could, and does happen to any boat during a race…but it’s nice to see that even a old design (admittedly way ahead of it’s time) can, with the proper crew, take on all comers and still end up on top. You have to admit that it gives a glimmer of hope to those without bottomless pockets.

Bill, nothing like backing up your design philosophy on the racecourse.

Congratulations Bill and Eric!

Hopefully someone will post more pictures of the SC 20 in action…

For a decade I have preached the benefits of the Hooter and Bill Roberts was finally convinced by Dave Calvert that this is so.
The Hooter really smoked on the first day, and they would have probably came in sooner than 11th on the second day had it not been for a pitchpole when they hit a sandbar.
Rick

Rick
Did they have a hooter for the first day only? From this picture it looks like it's a normal spinnaker.

Looked like a Hooter from where I was, but who knows for sure. I was pretty busy just being able to get back to the finish line to take down times.
I know Calvert had said that Roberts has finally opened up to the idea of a Hooter.
Personally, I know it works better than spinnakers -- just the world still holds on to monohull theories.
Rick

Hi Seeker,
When we got out in the Atlantic Ocean and put that SC20 in high gear, those eliptical hulls went to work and in an hour when we looked back, all we saw was open ocean, no boats.
Bill

Bill, don’t you think the 38 foot stick and the canvas that comes with it had something to do with your performance on the ocean side? It was pretty darn light most of the day.

Regards,
David Ingram

Hi Rick,
The Calvert spinnaker we used this year in the Steeplechase is not a 'Hooter'. It is a code zero spinnaker (software) plus alot of special Dave Calvert design spin and a little Bill Roberts design spin on sheeting angle. We used this sail for about 2 miles out of 55 miles on the first day of racing.
The SC20 DID NOT PITCHPOLE on the second day of this years Steeplechase Race. The boat did run aground and break the rudder off, then round up and turn over sideways slowly. We sailed the last 2/3rds of the race with one rudder and there were several times that the one remaining rudder was in the air leaving us to steer the boat at 20+ knots with the sails. It was a wild ride home!
Bill

Hi David,
Of course it did, but the winds for the first day of racing were double trapezing with white caps for the first four hours, from start until 1:00pm. Then the winds got lighter by 2:00pm, no traps, and by around 3:00pm to 3:30pm the wind stopped and we paddled in the last mile.
If you want to get into technical issues, 38ft mast etc; the boat we were sailing weighs 550 lbs by Boston Whaler and the class min weight for a SC20 is 450 lbs.
One of Tom Haberman's new ARC22 boats at 450lbs would have gone over the horrizon on us.
Bill

Bill-

Again, Why were the two boats rated differently???

thom

Bill-

Does your "code zero" furl?

thom

Before you poo poo the M20 and the technology it brings to the table at 15 minutes into the race the M20 was in front and pulling away and this was without their spin up, when rest of the leaders were on a double trapped spin reach. I suspect at the pace the M20 slipping away it would have been over the horizon by the time the next boat cleared Angelfish Creek. All boats have problems, and I’ll bet you lunch this type of failure is NOT a recurring theme on the M20.

Speaking of old designs, do you think the Tornado would be a little quicker with 38 foot stick, but I bet she would be handful in anything over 15 knots. What do you think?

Dave

Hi Guys,
For our SC20 Tall Rig rating we used the standard US Sailing numbers and modifications. SC20 Tall Rig 63.5, spin at .96, square top at .995 gets us to 60.6.

According to the results page, the other SC20 registered with SP(spin), TR(extra trapeze), MN(square top), and JU(larger than normal jib). I did not see the other SC20 as they set up at another location. However, I am pretty sure that it was not a tall rig. I don't know why they registered with extra trapeze unless they sail with 3 people. The boat has a home made spin pole with a roller furler sail on the tip. The boat tacks the jib down low and sheets to the tramp with alot of overlap. Even with these modifications added I do not see how they came up with the 59.2 number. I am assuming a mistake somewhere.

As far as the extra sail area helping in the light air, I feel, and was told by Krantz and Leonard on the closest I20 to us that we made most our time and distance when the wind increased to double trap conditions. I'm sure the extra sail didn't hurt in the light stuff, but we were able to drive hard in the double trap conditions.

Who cares what you call our headsail; reacher, hooter, code zero, assymetrical spin? It is a very flat cut sail with an open leech that does not hook when maximally sheeted.

Hope that answers some of the questions.

Eric

Thom, et al,
No, the headsail does not furl. It is launched and doused from a bag on the tramp. It is made of normal spinnaker cloth. I don't think it fits the definition of a "hooter", if there is a definition. I call it an assymetrical spinnaker designed to sail at a relatively close apparent wind angle. It is pretty simple, the faster the boat goes, the closer the apparent wind angle, the flatter the sail needs to be. Feel free to choose whatever name for the headsail you prefer.
Eric

Thom,
I don't know. I never saw the other boat and I do not know what its rating was. It may have been a standard SC20 rather than a tall rig. The standard rig with spinnaker would have been faster than the TR on the second day.
Bill

Thom,
I haven't tried it but it could.
Bill

Hi Dingram,
I'm sure you are right. Marstrom builds excellent products and this failure was the exception not the rule. I'm sure it will not happen again. The technology that the M20 brings to the table is the use of the autoclave to make carbon boat parts which can and does cut the weight of the typical beach cat in half. As far as a breakthrough shape or new design of an important boat part, that is not where the improvement is. The improvement is in the weight redution due to using the autoclave. It takes big dollars to get into the autoclave business. I don't see a US beach cat manufacturer going there because it also at least doubles the price of the boat and we aren't willing to pay that price for our boats. So for a while longer the US built beach cat products are going to be hand laid and vacuum formed fiberglass boats.
Bill

The SEACATS want to host you guys again this year in Columbia SC on May 15-16th 2004. Havent heard back from Haberman for the official answer, but we are already planning this regatta, and would like to have "the Official word" ASAP to continue to gain sponsors. Bill, hope to see you back this year!

David Mosley
www.seacats.org

Would it be a spi using the following definition ?

The girth of the spi at midheight (line from mid luff to mid leech) = 75 % of the foot of the spi sail.

If so than it is a spinnaker or rather asymmetric spinnaker by the definition of the ISAF. If not than it is something else and often it will be a hooter or Genua.

Wouter

The other Supercat was a tall rig -- written right there on his registration form, so he started with the same base PN as the Roberts boat. But the other boat had four modification factors, as opposed to two for the Roberts boat.

Bill,

Is that pole footed jib original equipment for the SC20TR? A friend of mine ordered a set of sails from Aquarius for his SC20TR and got a jib that looked like a hankerchief and was not pole footed. However, I haven't seen his boat in a while and I understand there were some issues with his sails that have since been resolved. The jib might have been part of those issues.

... I thought the "pole-fitted" jib was/is the ARC22 configuration/design. And the SC20 jib was above the junction of the front forstays?? (yes, the SC20 jib is much smaller then the ARC22 jib)

He did get his sails straight through some kind of intervention from Haberman and Roberts, and now uses the "pelican" striker to foot his jib to the spin pole. Very neat system, hope it works better than his old(brand new) sails we used at the Mug last year. The jib sucked in a big way!

Dave Mosley
www.seacats.org

Marschassault,

And to your point, I thought the Tall Rig SC20 simply had the ARC22 mast and sails. My eyeballs are starting to swirl.

Hi Jake,
The self tacking jibs became standard on all SC products in 1992. The self tacking jibs are smaller in area than the old manual tacking jibs. The self tackers are longer in luff length but shorter in foot measurement relative to the old manual tacking jibs. On the SC20 self tacker the jib luff is 2ft longer than the old standard jib and the foot is about 2.5ft shorter. The jib sheeting point for the self tacker is on the front of the front beam and the manual tacker jib sheeting point was 3ft aft of the front beam on the tramp track. The self tacker jibs on all SC products, 15,17,19,20 are all smaller in area than the old standard tacker jibs on the same boat.
Bill

well done Bill

Bill,
So if I was ordering main and jib for a stock SC20 produced on or after 1992...(self tacking Jib), it would be the same cut as the stock ARC22?

Hi All,

I own the second supercat in question, sail 2032. I have a short rig, oversized jib, square top main, screecher (hooter) and three harnesses. We had three people on our boat. I talked to Rick and he said he would take off the TR but I guess he forgot. It became a non issue when we did not finish.

We set up at Gilberts but we were behind the warehouse. We were working on our boat the entire night before and morning trying to get it back together after we had some damage at the Hirams Haul. We have have been developing the boat to a new sail configuration and did not have enough time to reinforce the hulls before Hirams.

Hope these answers a few questions. you can also go to our website.

Craig

TeamCyberspeed.com

Thom,
According to the registration the other SC20 had an oversize jib and a third set of trap wires and I guess it sailed with three people on board. The oversize jib had the jib tack on the spinnaker pole and sheeted to the old jib trim point about 3ft aft of the main beam on the tramp track. This makes a Genoa type jib something like the old TheMightyHobie18.
This boat received the same corrections for square top mainsail and spinnaker/gennaker as our SC20TR plus he picked up .981 for the genoa jib and .995 for the additional trap wire set. This gets you to 59.2 from 60.6.
Bill