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Bruce
(@brobru)
Posts: 547
Chief Registered
 

Mary,
I believe there is a big message here.

Om prime time NBC , women sports, controlled at least 50% of the airwaves........it seemed like more, but the error on the conservative side,....lets say 50%

So, the world loves women as athletes!,...and the sponsers pay big bucks to show them!

So, why aren't women in sailing more? I agree, why are they not in sailing? You gotta answer this for me ( and others)?

I mean, the Olympic class boats are not 50 footers with 5000 s.f of sail area to horse around......

And the women in track and field, gynmastics swimming are far from weak wimps,.....in fact, they are darn impressive!

So, what gives?

Maybe we should all sell our gazillion dollar investment in our boats and go to Beach Volleyball as a sport,......why we would have to buy small gym suits and some real cool sunglasses.........and be on prime time TV about 10,000% more than olympic sailing,.....and put the rest of the money in the bank

regards,

Bruce


 
Posted : August 31, 2004 2:35 pm
guer_j
(@guer_j)
Posts: 22
Lubber Registered
 

Actually in Equestrian (especially jumping) women may have the edge. I think mainly because of two factors. First, Weight: women are usually lighter than men; however, woman & men have about the same physical constitution in the lower part of the body (legs). In Equestrian the legs are very important and possibly are the part of the body that needs to be in better shape. Hence, woman will have less weight w/ about the same leg strength. The other factor is ‘empathy’. This is merely speculation on m part; but in Equestrian it ‘s very important that a strong connection/bond between the horse and the rider exist. We all know woman excel in that department
BTW: I was in the sport for 3 year as a teenager, also I have a close cousin that went to the Pan am games in this sport.

Testosterone actually doesn’t have to do much with how ‘competitive’ a person is. The competitive drive is very present on the female as well. Just look at the meticulous preparation a female subject takes before heading to a singles bar or club, that is fierce competition amongst females my friend!

Jaime


 
Posted : September 1, 2004 10:39 pm
scooby_simon
(@simonJlongstaff)
Posts: 3496
Captain Registered
 
Quote
Actually in Equestrian (especially jumping) women may have the edge

The results do not show this at all. Women took all the medals in dressage and the men took all medals in the jumping - individual.


 
Posted : September 2, 2004 12:59 am
(@Anonymous 37882)
Posts: 612
 

Mary, to say that in equestrian events it`s the horse that does all the work while the rider just steers it is a way-off statement. The rider has to be able to assess every turn & approach to a jump, and issue the horse instructions through physical communication with the horse (legs, reins etc). They also have to be able to steady & slow down a sometimes over-eager horse, which can take some physical effort.
Dressage requires more precision, patience and finesse, a "softer" feel, which could be why women have the edge there.
When you get to jumping over 6ft triple-jumps and especially eventing, the fear factor comes into it as well. I think here men have the advantage, they seem to be able to deal with fear more easily, maybe it`s because we can block out the fear, or ignore the possible consequenses. I don`t know why this is, but I`d guess it`s why you find more men in sports like skydiving, paragliding, rock-climbing etc than women. It`s not that women can`t be as good as men in any of these, I think it`s that they are not prepared to take the same risks as men are.
I know some very good female paraglider pilots, they probably have a better feel for the air than most men in the sport, but most are not prepared to fly competition rated gliders, as they are more dangerous to fly than intermediate or sports gliders. In the context of sailing, that`s why more women will sail boats that they feel they can comfortably control, whereas men want to sail bigger, faster, more "on the edge" boats. In this respect I can`t see a women sailor pushing a 49er or Tornado as hard as a man would, and will take fewer risks at aggressive starts & mark roundings. Women have a higher sense of self-preservation than men, and unlike men, women can acknowledge that they are, in fact, mortal.
We`re fortunate in the sense that a mistake in sailing usually ends up in a swim, which most of us are not afraid to do once in a while.
What I`ve noticed in paragliding is that when a guy has an accident & breaks an ankle or wrist (ie a non-life threatening or paralysing accident), he can`t wait for the cast to come off so he can go flying again, (some fly with the cast !) while many women pilots, after even a bad landing where the injuries amount to some bruising or maybe a sprained ankle, tend to re-evaluate their desire to fly.
I don`t think it`s because they`re scared, I think it`s because they might just have a greater appreciation of what might have happened if the situation were a little worse.
From a personal viewpoint, my fiance broke her arm 3 times while horse-riding, and has decided that sailing with me is a bit safer ! This suits me fine since I have crew, however I know that if she is injured badly or is put into a possible life-threatening situation (like if we have to be rescued while sailing in the ocean), she might think twice about her involvement in the sport. She has tried paragliding and decided it`s not for her, while I still fly after having seen accidents that resulted in paralysis, and have lost more than one friend to the sport.
It probably is all about testosterone.

Cheers
Steve


 
Posted : September 2, 2004 3:59 am
MaryAWells
(@maryawells)
Posts: 5485
Member
 

Steve,
Sorry, I phrased that wrong. I did not mean to suggest that the riders do not do any of the work. Obviously, it takes strength and skill -- it's just that I think that even at the Olympic level men and women are probably able to both acquire the necessary levels of strength and skill. So I figure those factors are out of the equation, and then it just comes down to the speed, strength, and ability of the horse.

But in the Open Class Olympic sailboats, I think strength is very definitely a factor that gives men an advantage.

The psychological differences would apply in most sports where men compete directly against women.

Someone has suggested to me that the female of many species also take less risks because it is important for them to survive in order to have children and perpetuate their species. If most of the men get killed in battle, all the women need is one lucky male survivor.

In some horseback riding events, maybe the sex of the horse is a factor for the same reason -- the males are more likely to take risks. If Wouter is correct about the different way in which male and female horses used to react in battle situations, maybe that bit of history tends to corroborate the theory.

If that is the case, we now have to worry about the relative testosterone levels of the horses, too. Should female riders be required to ride male horses and vice versa, just to even out the testosterone?

I never should have started this topic -- now I have gotten myself totally convinced that I can never possibly beat a man in a sailboat race.


 
Posted : September 2, 2004 2:18 pm
guer_j
(@guer_j)
Posts: 22
Lubber Registered
 

Well, you can race against me, You'll certainly win… if that makes you feel better.


 
Posted : September 2, 2004 2:34 pm
(@Anonymous 37740)
Posts: 433
 

-=O=-
_) _) _)

She beats up on many excellent male sailors!!!

4th H16 opens 1999 Ft Walton Beach 120 teams
5th H16 opens 2000 Kingston 45 teams

and continues to do it to this day!!

No it's not the Olympics but very few men could do that well!!


 
Posted : September 2, 2004 2:59 pm
MaryAWells
(@maryawells)
Posts: 5485
Member
 

Susan is an awesome sailor. There are lots of great women sailors. My sister has been beating men all her sailing life, too.

But this thread was about the Olympics and why there are usually no women at all racing in the Open classes. I just theorized that those particular classes are, in general, too demanding for women to be competitive with men at the Olympic level.

And I suggested the reason for that is the difference in testosterone levels. My sister agrees with me, and my daughter agrees with me. So I have at least two women on my side.

If the Hobie 16 were an Open Olympic class, we would probably start seeing more women, both as skipper and as crew.

I think the designation of "Open" is silly for the Laser, 49er and Tornado (especially since the Tornado added the spinnaker), but it has been suggested to me that ISAF has to designate some classes as open, whether women are really ABLE to compete in them or not. It has something to do with an IOC rule -- maybe X number of classes have to be available to women.

Does anybody know about this? Does it have something to do with Title 9? I thought that was just for high school and college sports.

But if they do have to designate some "Open" classes, why don't they make at least one of them a true and realistic open class?


 
Posted : September 2, 2004 5:01 pm
(@_removed-account)
Posts: 15030
Four Star Admiral Registered
 

Susan can kick some butt and we can add Pease Glaser and Annie Nelson to that list.


 
Posted : September 2, 2004 7:49 pm
(@Anonymous 37882)
Posts: 612
 

Hi Mary,
In equestrian sports it`s a bit confusing, since male horses are divided into those who are still all male, and those who have had some equipment removed, which makes them a bit more docile ! Female horses you can at least bet on for consistency, except they all have their own personality. I promised myself a long time ago I would never do a sport where my equipment can think for itself !
Lucky for us, boats are pretty neutral, even though we call a ship female. Perhaps if women sailors could get male boats, they`d do better ?

This issue is an impossible one to resolve - I used to think women had less competitive drive than men, which could explain why fewer compete in sailing, but my crew (female) hates losing more than I do, so it`s not that. I remember a huge fight on the boat at one Nationals, after we`d just come 2nd in a race, because I thought "wow, we just came 2nd", while she thought "If you didn`t make that one mistake, we could have been first."
It might just be that because they are MORE competitive than men in some ways, and can`t stand losing, that they don`t want to compete, for fear of losing.
Then again, there`s a theory which states that, male or female, we`re all different. I`ll go with that one.

Cheers
Steve


 
Posted : September 3, 2004 4:14 am
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