Unbelievable Portsmouth changes!!

I don't know. Some of the changes are a little more realistic. Considering that my 20foot double handed factory equipped Nacra 6.0 rates a 62.5 (down from 62.9) it still sounds like a single handed Dart 20 has a heck of an easy rating with 65.7 - although I have never seen nor sailed against a Dart 20.

The Supercat 20 TR (which is roughly the same weight, with 6 more feet of mast and gobs more sail area, same length, but with a FOUR foot wider beam as my 6.0) also came down 2 points but is still rates a little slower than me. However, this seems a little more realistic.

There were some conversations about taking a look at the "dead boat societies" that have experienced rating creep. I'm not sure what direction the Portsmouth committee took but with the exception of the Dart 20 rating (just because I don't know) the changes seem to be reasonable. Those G-cats have been known to have incredible ratings (I know, I sail against a bunch of them all the time).

Spreadsheet comparison of all the boats which got a lower D-PN number 2003 compared to 2002 shows that D-PN number change % is much greater than the % change for a given wind range.

Specifically, the GCat 5.7 numbers for the last 4 years from the US Sailing site :

G-Cat 5.7m G5.7 72.0 78.0 74.3 72.0 66.2 2003
G-Cat 5.7m G5.7 75.1 78.0 77.2 73.0 68.7 2002
G-Cat 5.7m G5.7 74.7 [ 78.0] 77.2 ( 73.0) [ 68.7] 2001
G-Cat 5.7m G5.7 73.8 [78.0] 76.4 (73.0) [68.7] 2000
I would say that the D-PN number for the GCat5.7 had crept upwards for some reason, and has now been corrected back to its original range. I don't know why the committee changed the number, maybe someone who raced GCat5.7 in the last few years suddenly got significantly better, and this performance based system is reflecting that.

When I use to race a NACRA 5.2 in 1988-1992, it rated 72, and we used to race against a GCat5.7, which also rated 72 at the time. Both boats were about the same speed around many diferent courses. Current Portsmouth numbers for both boats are the same, again.

We probably needed some adjustment as these boats are faster than their rating. How much? Dont know.
The ratings have probably been changed because of our fleet og G-Cats racing here in Columbia SC. We have been active locally, and numbers have been submitted.
Its hard to beat a G-Cat

David Mosley
www.seacats.org

Hi Dave,
You will probably be next with your numbers.
LOL See you at the Causeway.

Boats that add spinnakers really get walloped. I always thought it was outrageous to use the Spinnaker on Distance Races (a really big hit). Well, the eliminated that, but now all spinnaker mods are really hit hard.
Is this a way to get rid of spinnaker boats and get back to main and jib boats? Hmmmm?
Rick

Yea those guys are out of their mind. I am going to call in a few weeks after everything settles down and ask a few questions of my own. More than a few of the rating changes are just nuts.

I wont say anymore.... I know this thread could really get out of hand.

I feel your pain!

AJ
Express 6.0

I'm just wondering, Why do we use this system? Are there any races in in the U.S. that anyone knows of that use a different system.

I will say this, I emailed them about about some issues I had regarding the rating of the Mystere 6.0 as compared to the XL version and about why adding wings gave such a big hit.(the Hobie 18, same rating with or without wings) They got right back with me and we had a good discussion. The newest changes have addressed that. So this year I'm happy.

About the spin. hit. As long as your sailing in a spin. class there shouldn't be a problem.

Mike

It's nice to hear they're responsive when you ask. I know it's a lot of work, and I admire the fact someone does the work.

I wonder if the folks griping on this forum have ever been involved in collecting Portsmouth data, collating & sending it in. I would suggest that griping about US Sailing Portsmouth numbers require the following :
a) membership in US Sailing
b) membership in an organization that has collected & sent data in to US Sailing Portsmouth Committee.

They actually post the list of organizations that sent in data, so if you're not properly credited, speak up!

Guess in about 8 days we'll see who's the real "King of the Cats", New G-Force 21 Guy.
Maybe you can set the standard for the G-Force 21 all by your lonesome. I'll help ya drag yer boat up on the new beach after you finally get back to shore. I owe ya a beer anyway.
CARY

Cary
Did you change to #252? That is my orignal sail number.

Barry:
I stole your Number. Did it with malicious intent and malice aforethought.
OR MAYBE it went like this. . .
Hey I screwed up, new boat and an odd angle on the sails to read the numbers that I have only in a picture. It's #232. (I was close) Picking the boat up Sunday.
Can't wait.
Cary

JAKE:
One wonders where the Supercat 20 TR Portsmouth comes from. As I remember, Allen told me Bill Roberts just gave them some kind of estimated #, based upon the old Supercat 20 #'s.. I question it's accuracy. You and I both sailed against that Super 20 TR, and when he finally learns to sail it, he'll be tough to beat. Somebody needs to bring a fast boat in there to teach him some humility, Jake. Any Volunteers besides you on your NACRA 6.0, Me on my I-20, or David on his new G-Force 21? One of us has to have the kryptonite for that Supercat.
I'll make a point to ask Bill Roberts about it next weekend. You missed Fleet meeting, but he's doing a Presentation on sail design at Columbia Sail Club Friday, May 16th at about 8PM at our Tommy Whiteside regatta for the Supercat Nationals.
www.seacats.org
CARY

Kryptonite......... Hmmmmmm!!!

I'm there...

AJ
Nacra 6.0 Express

A.J.
Didn't you just sail against those guys at the Mug?

The SC 20 unfortunately even finshed 1st against 3 INTER 20's. The SC20TR would have done MUCH better except he broke a sidestay clevis pin and had to finish the race on a single tack from the last bridge. And he still did well. I beat him a couple races at Spring Fever on my 5.5SL before I blew out my mainsail, but he was just learning and there were some rigging problems, he still took 2nd in Open class. I love the guy, sail with him regularly, but we're all going to 20 foot fastcats just to keep him off the finish line. Would love to have ya at the regatta, $30 for all you can drink, a 180 pound hawg who has gladly sacrificed himself for the nourishment of our fair sailors, free camping and a HUGE facility with electric hookups. We need all the Kryptonite we can get, especially with 2 SC20TR's, 3 or possibly four standard SC 20's, and maybe the Russian Olympic team on one of them. Bring on your Kryptonite, heck I think we need Lex Luthor on this one.
Race Details at
http://www.seacats.org/official_notice_of_race_twm_2003.htm

CARY

Cary,

Yea we had our chance at the Mug and I blew it. I will be a a lot of races this year so I am sure I will see them again. I was sick as a dog the entire race and the finish shows. We actually did pretty well until I made a tactical error (with my splitting headache and messed up insides) that cost us. We actually let 2 boats pass us at the finish just because I was not up to it. Details are in the Mug Results.

AJ
Nacra 6.0 Express

I still remember you finished in the early pack. I had just sold my 5.5SL, Was boatless for 2 weeks waiting on the new INTER 20. Came down just to enjoy the race from the sidelines and help do some ground crew for our fleet.
I have one criticism for the Mug Race. You would think that after sailing 40 miles up the St John's River, they would put the finish line on the North side of the bridge where you could see it instead of on the invisible South Side where you can' t tell anything about how it turned out.
Just my .02
CARY

What were they thinking? Where did all the changes come from? I'd like to see the race results that warranted these changes.

Nacra 6.0 Express was 59.7, now is 58.5 --- Where are the race results that say it is faster than an I20 (59.2)? Somebody check what's in the water cooler!

And, who thought it was a good idea to drop the weight (heavy weights) corrections? If you have a minimum weight requirement for classes, how can you not have a heavy weight correction? That is contradictory. They are admitting on one hand that it is an advantage to be too light and not a disadvantage to be too heavy? I thought the ratings are to help even the palying field.

This discussion can probably go on a long time. I will be complaining to my rep. Who wants to play the rating game? These latest changes appear to be discouraging race participants and hurting the sport we all enjoy. It looks (to me) like politics are raising their ugly head. I just want to sail and have fun. These new tables really stink!

Just my opinion..............

Don Cook
ARC22

ohhhh...don't get us started on the fat boy rule...

I'm wishing I was a fat boy with the new boat. Gotta make some BIG friends.
CARY

What's the difference between a 6.0 Express and a standard 6.0 NA?
CARY

Express has a bigger jib (genoa), square top main, and spinnaker. Same mast, hulls etc. as 6.0. The rating already takes all that into account. It is listed in the Portsmouth Ratings under Express, not Nacra.

Speaking of the fat boy rule. Sailed our ARC22 this past week end -- 440# on the wire and 22.7 knots boat speed.

Don

You enjoy that little drag race down the sound Don? John and I had a great time...you don't learn much, but it is fun!! I don't really want to bring the Hobie 20 into the mix, but I think we sailed it's number pretty well.

It was interisting to see roughly how similar the top speeds were for all the 19/20/22 ft boats this weekend. I would have liked to have seen an I-20 in the mix to get a really good comparison. I think it probably would have smoked us all.

Will R

Hey Will,

Yeah, that reach down the sound was a blast. The Hobie 20 did great. This was our first time on the ARC with any wind, so we were learning it the whole time. What a ride! Still have a long ways to go. We definitely feel better on the bigger boat. I'd like to have had an I20 in there too for comparison, but Kirk, Mark ,and the others, as you know were doing the Tybee 500. Maybe the White or Wheat Regatta coming up will be a good one for us all to match up.

See you then.

Don

Don,

They wont see my Express rig much any more with that rating. They got to be kidding. I'll be showing up at some races as a 6.0 Orig. w/spin and square top with a cool 62.5. I've already talked to Randy about switching the rig. The boat is still extremely fast either way.

We have around 450# on the wire on a light day too.... Most of the time I am thanking my stars that we do with that monster tied to the forestay... We have nicknamed it the beast, and joke about when we should let it out or roll it up.

What is the date for the 1/2 RTI and where is it held? I called the guys at Key S. and they did not really know. Is it under another name? Is it out of Leeside Park?

AJ
Nacra 6.0 Express

AJ,

That new rating for the Express really stinks. They have dropped it two years in a row. I don't understand it. I have already sent a formal complaint to Bob Curry, our representative. Sounds like you can use the H3 handicap too.

The 1/2 Round the Island is going to have to wait until next year. The county, out of some stoke of genius, decided they would pick May, June, and July to completely tear up and renovate the parking lot next to Juana's. The state park across the street isn't finished yet either. Needless to say, there is absolutely, not nearly enough parking there. For this year and this year only, we will have to run the White or Wheat Regatta out of Pensacola Beach. They are supposed to be posting a NOR and details on the Pensacola Beach Yacht Clud web site. http://www.pensacolabeach-yc.org/

Maybe by the time Juana's Regatta comes around in September, they'll have finished the parking area.

Hope you can make it.

See you soon.

Don