There are no handicaps. Once you're placed in a class as fairly as we can, you race heads-up. Nothing like Portsmouth. Again, apples and oranges.
If you don't
get it
I am not going to try and make you feel like an idiot.
Post deleted.
Sorry, Jack.
Lets go way back to say '82. I sailed with my dad on a 16, was a local fleet member and sailed
B
fleet. The crowds of spectators were huge, beer distributors provided tap trucks, every event had a specially designed t-shirt, awesome door prizes and great meals provided by local sponsors.
Today there is no fleet for me to join, regatta crowds are small, some times beer is provided, sometimes there is a t-shirt, usually a meal but not what it was. Its just not the same atmosphere now. Without the local fleet organization its much harder to get
outsiders
motivated.
Why is there no registration on the EMSA site? If there were it would at least give you a starting point for rallying the troops. Other than Trey Brown encouraging me to attend events I hear from no one in the sailing community. In fact, I will venture to say that Trey Brown has done as much or more for the sailing scene in the SE than anyone. I know of several other sailors that he encourages as well. No one else contacts these guys regularly and none of them sail an I-20. Its about organization and communication, if I don't know about an event how can I attend. Not all SE sailors even know that EMSA exists, much less that there is a website with race info. The masses are simply left out and uninformed, those in the click have all the info.
And lets not even bring up the subject of race management and what happens to a newbie if his boat gets damaged, his fault or not.
Please relax. I know both of you and you're both reasonable people and your hearts are in the right place....I think perhaps you're getting lost a little in the anonymity of the internet and (a far to easy to do) mis-understood ideas and methodology.
ol rusty
and get them sailing at our events again we should make a conserted effort to value the boat they brought. The temptation is to try to grow
our
fleet by introducing people to
our boat
. More boats in OD is a good thing but there's nothing wrong with runnin' what you brung.
I didn't see it like that - the kids of the parents who were there want to ride on the big boats to see what it was like. It was their suggestion. However, I do agree that we didn't put enough emphasis on helping them with their own boats - capsize and recovery should be a main event. Trey is the professor in this area.
Maybe I should have been more clear. I don't think we intentionally steer new people to our fleet. It's just that we have been on some of the older boats and moved on to what we feel is a more exillerating ride. I think sometimes we assume that it is more exillerating for the new folks too. So my temptation is to enlighten them when I should be excited about their Hobie wave adding to the number of participants.
Don't make him get out the squeegee!
Zan,
You are right on here and this is what we talked about last year. I agree that this concept was misdirected at the event.
Jake,
I'm up for it again depending on the dates. I'll bring my own toilet paper since I am an butt!
Well said. Props to Trey, Jake, etc. for all their hard work at increasing regatta attendance in the SE.
IMO, preregistration is critical. New sailors will not pack up their boats and drive long distances to regattas unless they have some sort of idea what they are going for.
Hot, young women, fun races (chugboat races, etc), and communal beer buckets.
Bingo!
The Nacra way of life!
what if 1/2 the entry fee's went to getting bikini models? It works for boxing, nascar, football, basket ball...
PS i have felt ostracized, outcast and shun at events... and thats just my birthday party for starters!!!
Dave, I agree...Words... It's all that I have left.
On the Chesapeake... we were forced to shut down the open class for next year's Gunpowder event.... Only three F16's bothered to show for the May open class event this year. The goal is to keep the regatta alive so we hope that if it becomes Hobie Only and Syracuse moves their date to the fall that the three open boats will be replaced by a few extra Hobies.
I would prefer to use words then the action of killing off regattas and class starts.
What's left for open class racing is:
Va Beach's fleet 32 Open class race.
Rock Hall Open class (which will really be hobie 16's and 18's.)
Corsica and Cambridge... (ditto class participation) .. One of which will likely be killed off after this year because of a conflict with the 16 NA's and just not enough interest to keep the regattas going.
The only other Open event is the West River Pumpkin patch. which is a handicap race between three one design fleets at the club.
Bottom line.... No new sailors... No new sailors on old race boats... No sailors converting to one design boats replacing those that retire. Fewer racing sailors active on the bay.
A new sailor does not mind getting beat in a game he is just learning... I assert he resents being marginalized and not feeling included in the racing when the attention is focused on the magic and superiority of the 7 boat one design fleet while he putters around in the 5 boat open class fleet of dead boats like his.. So he is
inferior
. No matter how friendly... the sailors are... he will feel unwelcome and not likely to come back.
A sea change is needed.... The sailors ... NOT the OA's. need to decide how best to keep the sport accessible.
I assert that we must agree to group every one together and race what you brung and then score it one design. Otherwise... the scene just gets smaller and smaller year by year. It means that we one design sailors have to give something up...
From my vantage point... the
stronger
the one design fleets have gotten... The fewer the number of racing sailors we have on the water year after year. Although we have one design fleets... nobody is remarking how healthy they look!
Here is another event scored just like the Tybee... Overall on handicap and then in smaller fleets... all PHRF handicap.
I am equally sure that each of the 35 sailors wished that the other 34 were sailing a boat ... just like theirs!
But...
The three guys in PHRF C are racing Donnybrook the fastest boat on the bay... maybe one day.. they will save their time and correct out.... Racing against everyone keeps the little guys coming back.
No one in EMSA pre-registers. They play the weather, and show up when its good...bunch of fair weather pansies!
Todd, you and Jack need to kiss and make up, but no open mouth crap....dont you remebe we our conversation over Mexican trying to get him into an A cat?
Next catapalooza idea. No rocket ships! leave the N20, A cats, F18's and any other fast and overly complicated boats at home. Lets see some H16's, and whatever else we can drag out that might suit our new friends better for thier learning curve.
I think that's just you Dave. Or was it all of the Columbia crew? Could it have something to do with being scared to leave that pretty new clubhouse?
I was looking at boats when I first moved up to the Dallas area an was told IF you don't have a Hobie, you CAN'T race. That has been going on here far as long as I can remember. I am glad now I am moving back to Div 6 and PRAY someday we get the Dike built back. Will we see he days of B fleet and 100* local regatta? NO! But I think we can accept the new guys know matter WHAT they sail or how old there boat is. We need to bring as many new people in as we can and share the
sport
we love. After all it was the thrill of FLYING across the water and flying a hull in 79 that first got in into the sport, BECAUSE I got a lot of DFL at first and still loved it.
Doug
I assert that because you were part of a big group.... the second fact... did not matter to you!
If we can't get big groups of one design boats... we need to create big groups that race each other so people belong and feel welcome.
So why make a Div one type of boat only? They call Div 6, Hobie Nazi land.
Doug
I am an old cat sailor 64 years old. I still sail a 1996 Nacra 6.0 and have not raced since I was 60 but still sail almost every weekend and enjoy following the forums. I think that most of you that have voiced an opinion should go back and reread everything and ask yourself if you were one of those that had their boat in the back yard or were a new sailor is this what you would want to do with your precious spare time. It truly sounds and seems like most of the fun has left the regattas, when before that was the main reason we went sailing. If you want more people to join you will somehow have to control the cost. No everyone has the same balance in the checkbook. Would it be fair to say that it is now considered checkbook racing?
They call it Division 1 because it is Hobie Division 1, always has been.
Who's
they
? And, wtf are you talking about?
Todd, you and Jack need to kiss and make up, but no open mouth crap....dont you remebe we our conversation over Mexican trying to get him into an A cat?
Next catapalooza idea. No rocket ships! leave the N20, A cats, F18's and any other fast and overly complicated boats at home. Lets see some H16's, and whatever else we can drag out that might suit our new friends better for thier learning curve.
I do sincerely think you are confusing yourself with the rest of us!
You make a great point with a terrific idea...that's what I'll do. This Catapalooza, I'm bringing a Hobie 16 to sail on.
Jake
Who's
they
? And, wtf are you talking about?
Got that nick name a long time ago Lee! If you are not Hobie, you don't race is what I was told by Fleet 23 when I was asking about boats in the area. That is why I look forward to getting back to Div 6.
Doug
Dave you quit coming because your boat aint pretty enough?
Naaaaa, just that pretty new wife of Dave's taking up a little extra time.
At least Erin sails . . . Kinda nice to have Erin and Jeri taking turns handling the stick on my Mono, They have steady hands on the tiller and we get more time to drink. . .
Cary
SEACATS MARTINI TEAM
What about having a
Social Director
type person at every regatta, to welcome any newbies, introduce them around, answer questions, help them get registered, hook them up with someone with experience if they need help stepping their mast, etc??
I was reading all these posts and thinking back to my first cat regatta, at which I had NO IDEA what I was doing. If it had not been for Brian Karr and Tammy introducing me around, and all the others who helped me set up my boat, showed me how to use Beach Wheels, loaned me their beach wheels (I was going to back my boat down the ramp off the trailer, because I didn't know any better) got me out to the starting line on time, etc, etc, etc. I would have probably left in disgrace and never returned. They made me feel welcome, loaned me a spray top for Tom when it started raining, they could not have been nicer!
Every Fleet should have someone designated as the Social Director and Newbie Welcome Committee. Brian and Tammy did it for our old Nacra 5.5 fleet, Gina McDonald does it for the F16 fleet. Every fleet needs a
Go To
person to get the newbies pointed in the right direction, I think. And to introduce the Newbies around to the Old Heads.
Jack, I know plenty of asswipes.
You Sir, are NO butt! Jack took it upon himself to introduce this Newbie to Vintage Auto Racing, and thanks to him, I'm hooked. Now I just have to convince the wife I need another toy! Jack, if we had more guys like you doing the same thing for catsailing, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Somebody has to take it upon themselves to bring in new blood.
But really, we should each try to bring in at least one newbie every year, right? Sell them your old boat and buy a new one. Win-Win.
Brian Karr single handedly (well, with Tammy) developed our old 5.5 Dead Boat Society, remember? He got me to sell my old Hobie 18 when he found me a great deal on a used 5.5
We need more like BK and Jack! And more social directors at the regattas like Gina McDonald.
Thanks for all the help and fun, all you Social Directors.
This really isn't fair; bringing up this one-design argument again. It's the racers' choice: You can attend a one-design regatta and find out if it's really you or the boat, or you can travel to an open regatta and just have fun. Either way, it's the racers' choice. Let this whole thing alone; let the racers go where they want to go and don't shoot the RC that's trying to fill the bill for what the racers' want.
ACTUALLY I agree wholeheartedly That Regattas are expensive. After the Gas and the Food and the vacation days you burn, Then come the regatta fees.
But Don't Blame the Regatta Organizers.
I know WE try to keep costs affordable at Tommy Whiteside, but by the time you get a Tee shirt and breakfast for 70 people two days in a row, and preorder 100+ meals and hors d'oevres and pay the band, It all adds up prodigiously. Oh, There's also BEER expenses. All in all, $40 barely covers it. And just to put in in perspective, there are only 3.5 active SEACATS left that somehow pull this off every year.
BUT, It all gets done, usually at the last minute with the help of Columbia Sailing club and Lake Murray Yacht Racing Asssociation and Lake Murray Sailing Club and every favor we can call in and every sponsor we can beg.
But the first thing is to get the newbies out.
EMSA CLASS RULE SUGGESTION Why don't we as a DIVISION Vote to give the first regatta free to someone new. I'm not saying we automatically give them Tee Shirts and Hats and Dinners, just a free venue to race, it costs us nothing to make the offer. Just invite them to come join the experience and see if it is for them. If they want Hats and Dinner Tickets they can buy them before or afterwards (Most folks will) But let them sail in the event without a fee just to get them on the water and see if they like it.
Just my Suggestion. We need to do something different. BTW, I commend the KEOWEE BWYD folks for taking this to the extreme with this weekend's event. Way to go guys!!!
CARY
Social Director
type person at every regatta, to welcome any newbies, introduce them around, answer questions, help them get registered, hook them up with someone with experience if they need help stepping their mast, etc??
I was reading all these posts and thinking back to my first cat regatta, at which I had NO IDEA what I was doing. If it had not been for Brian Karr and Tammy introducing me around, and all the others who helped me set up my boat, showed me how to use Beach Wheels, loaned me their beach wheels (I was going to back my boat down the ramp off the trailer, because I didn't know any better) got me out to the starting line on time, etc, etc, etc. I would have probably left in disgrace and never returned. They made me feel welcome, loaned me a spray top for Tom when it started raining, they could not have been nicer!
Every Fleet should have someone designated as the Social Director and Newbie Welcome Committee. Brian and Tammy did it for our old Nacra 5.5 fleet, Gina McDonald does it for the F16 fleet. Every fleet needs a
Go To
person to get the newbies pointed in the right direction, I think. And to introduce the Newbies around to the Old Heads.
Jack, I know plenty of asswipes.
You Sir, are NO butt! Jack took it upon himself to introduce this Newbie to Vintage Auto Racing, and thanks to him, I'm hooked. Now I just have to convince the wife I need another toy! Jack, if we had more guys like you doing the same thing for catsailing, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Somebody has to take it upon themselves to bring in new blood.
But really, we should each try to bring in at least one newbie every year, right? Sell them your old boat and buy a new one. Win-Win.
Brian Karr single handedly (well, with Tammy) developed our old 5.5 Dead Boat Society, remember? He got me to sell my old Hobie 18 when he found me a great deal on a used 5.5
We need more like BK and Jack! And more social directors at the regattas like Gina McDonald.
Thanks for all the help and fun, all you Social Directors.
Timbo:
I agree with you 100%, When I started racing in 79 Hobies where all there were, but over the years I have always tried to help with what I knew. I would see someone on the beach looking at the boats and take them out. Are help them with there boat, I did it far the joy of passing on what I had learned in 30 years of sailing. I would even take my boat out and shadow them. Trying to help them trim or get out of irons. We where a family and everyone was welcome. Who cares what type of boat you have, we are sailors and we love the sport. I use to win a lot of trophy's, but now it has been a while. But I still race and sail because I LOVE it and will till I can't hold the tiller any more.
Doug
Is Dave the 1/2?
Now I just have to convince the wife I need another toy!
Hey Tim:
#1 Can I have yer F-16, or will you need it to sleep on the tramp when you ask the wife that one more toy story. . . . .
#2 Seriously I had the same thing. Showed up clueless at Spring Fever 11 years ago, missing a Forestay Chainplate for my H-16, Was gonna turn around and go home, Nigel took me to Alex who found me the part, That's why I'm still here . . .
Kindness of a stranger welcoming a new guy to the sport, We all have to take that attitude to build it back.
Sorry, Jack.
Jeez, I told a few folks that I was called an butt today. <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
Now there is no proof. <img src="<>/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown" height="15" width="15" />
Is Dave the 1/2?
No TAWD, it's you man, it's always you . . .
All right Jack,
Your an butt.
How's that. I aim to please. <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />
Tawd