USS organization - multihull council

No.

The forum is the scheduled meetings of the MHC. The meetings are open to the public.

You make the statement by what authority?

Area C rep currently.

Doesn't sound to me like you have the authority to make the statement.

Mark is a member of the Multihull Championship Committee. I feel he was distinguishing between by - laws and 'assembly' - re the Roman Forum. Now that's a cool place! The Roman Senate building is the same as it ever was.

Pete, let's call your reminder of the MHC By Laws an 'agenda' for business.

To all - let's avoid the 'Coloseum' and the 'Circus.'

Hey Pete, I remember meeting you at the Multihull Council Meeting in Florida.
Caleb

I refer each of you to my initial post:

Article II – Purpose
The purpose of the Multihull Council is to function as authorized and described in Bylaws 202, 222, and 511 of the US SAILING Bylaws, and other provisions of the US SAILING Bylaws and US SAILING Regulations as appropriate. Any conflicts between the US SAILING Bylaws and this document shall be resolved in favor of the US SAILING Bylaws.

The purpose on the Council includes:

1. To promote and support the interests of those who sail multihulls.

2. To provide a forum for those who sail multihulls, as well as manufacturers of multihull boats, spars and sails, to discuss matters of interest and exchange information.

I could just as easily postulate that you don't have the authority to assert the converse (that this is the forum).

I agree with Mark and would add that this internet forum is far too limited in scope.

The

forum

mentioned in the bylaws is a metaphorical one, not a literal one.

Authority???
I am reporting... there is no official bulletin board or forum used by the MHC.

Information is distributed from the Area Reps, Class One design mechanism, smoke signals and any other means that the anyone can think of.

Anything

official

is published on the USSA web site. That is the official repository of any work that the MHC would do. (minutes, recommendations etc)

There is NO BUDGET for the MHC....What it can do is make your voice heard via an official channel to USSA... (Olympic, handiciap, Safety)

For example, the multihull championship committee will be made official shortly, I suspect the information will be published on US Sailing. The MHC will be making their feelings known to the Championship committee (who have to go out and make an event happen).

Who are the members of the Multihull Council and who has the authority to determine the nature of the forum in question?

Short version: Mark is correct (although communication isn't limited to meetings, we are allowed to conduct business by telephone and email).

Note the last sentence of the Purpose paragraph, it defers to the US Sailing bylaws.

Within the US Sailing bylaws, the word forum appears once, as follows:

Bylaw 221 – Status and General Authority
The House of Delegates shall meet at least annually to serve as a forum for members and member organizations to debate and advise the Board on policies, performance, governance, and other pertinent matters.

The Multihull Council is part of the HOD (Bylaw 202, Section 4), so it makes sense for the definitions to match.

There are no electronic forums for any other part of US Sailing, and I am confident that no such use of the term was intended.

As an aside, even if an electronic forum were required, I can absolutely guarantee that this site would not be it...

Hope this helps.

Mike

EDIT: Add this to your Favorites: http://racing.ussailing.org/Multihull.htm. From there, you can click on the Multihull Council link onthe left side, which brings up the current roster.

That's correct as far as it goes, but there is this:

at least annually...

So you can expand the forum.

My real question is to the nature of USS. Is it an open democratic organization or a tightly controlled autocracy?

This latter form might just be the cause of so much discontent among the membrship.

We are answering MHC questions, as that is our area of expertise, and as you point out, direct authority.

Sounds like you need to pick up the phone and call Gary Jobson. Your questions are valid, but far beyond what we have the authority to handle.

Mike

There is a point on which we disagree fundamentally. The authority is there for the MHC to operate as they see fit.

Make a decision. Is the forum for the MHC open or closed?

Pete, please restate your point and actual question, because it's really hard to follow the twists and turns of your posts, which are now appearing in multiple threads.

You keep throwing stuff out here that you have huge problems with the way US Sailing operates (beyond MHC-specific), and are talking about supporting some sort of court action with money.

I've asked you to provide context on what you want to see us do on the MHC site, and you backed down and said US Sailing is working on your perceived problem, which I read to indicate that you don't have a problem with MHC which you are willing to clearly communitcate or help resolve.

What is it specifically that you want?

Mike

Mike, You have the patience of a saint! (Need to remember that quality for future MHC chairmen)

You guys are like mice on a wheel and Pete is throwing you a piece of lettuce. <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

Attention.

Hey Pete,
Has your cat ever tried to run away from home, or does it suffer from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder? <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

I haven't backed down on anything. As regards a table of organization, I offered several examples as well as the information that the board of directors is already looking into the organizational structure. Publishing a table before they present their findings is likely to be wasted effort.

I have lots of question! One answer is likely to produce several more questions.

My greater goal is to better understand how USS works. Specifically I want USS to be more open and democratic in its proceedings.

I abhor monoplies. To that end I would like to see USS have to compete for its place as the leader of amateur and Olympic sailing in the U.S. I'm willing to spend a small amount of money in that pursuit. But, since that would take an act of Congress I'm not holding my breath.

In the mean time the same problems keep popping up, especially concerning Alter Cup. I'm wondering why this can't be resolved and looking for a solution.

Pete, you're just trolling in the worst internet sense of the word. You wrap yourself in the mantle of the intellectually curious while, in fact, you're the picture of complacency and inaction. You kick the antpile to see what happens, and promptly wander off when you get bored. I don't have any particular problem with that, but let's not pretend you actually give a crap, okay?

Nonsense.

On that, we agree. You're such a different person on the beach. I like that guy.

I'm not going down this road. My interest in USS is legitimate. I want to know why there is so much discontent and work towards resolving it. If you choose to believe otherwise that is your right.

What’s wrong with lettuce? <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

Assuming this is a legitimate question, and not an attempt at humor that I am missing...

Attention of whom, exactly, and on what topic?

Since October, we have had:

• Two MHC meetings (one of which was the

Annual Meeting

which face-to-face in Annopolis, and was attended by Jack, Gary, and a large number of other US Sailing officials and staff).
• I have sat down with Jack twice, and Liz once. This is in addition to the direct and impromptu (airport, flight, lunch, etc.) meetings in Annapolis, which also included Lee and a number of Board and HOD members.
• I have had countless email and phone discussions and meetings, one of which resulted in the MHC Alter Cup survey.
• We proposed, and the Board approved, a new Chair for the MCC (Alter Cup committee).

We will be having a MHC spring meeting (teleconference), most likely in April.

I am doing everything that I can to bridge the gaps, but I need specific input on what those gaps are. Jack has been asking the whole time as well, which tells me that he is interested in helping us.

Pete, this post was anything but specific enough to be actionable for the MHC (my comments included here):

Mike

Once an organization's character has been established it is all but impossible to change.

Pete out.

I think I see the problem here. You have an axe to grind that is so big, you can neither see nor handle facts pointing to how we are changing.

Pete, you may choose not to believe this, but I value your opinion just like any other member. However, you need to help us to help you.

Continuing to throw non-actionable, rhetorical gems like this up here will not accomplish that.

Mike

Jeez. I started out by asking if this the MHC forum. From there we arrive at ax grinding.

I guess I have my answer.

To be fair, we didn't go from Post 1 to axes without your help.

I've been trying to be as open as possible, because for every complaint, there is usually something to be fixed.

I am struggling to figure out how we can help you.

Mike