want to build a trapeze

Much more info is required if you seriously want help.

I added twin traps to a Prindle 16, total cost was about $125, for the 4 wires, 4 handles, lines for all and bungie cord to hold it all together. I bought it from http://www.Murrays.com they have all the factory stuff for most cats but without knowing what you have for a boat, we can't know what length wires you need. You might also find it at the Catsailor online store here on this site, upper right corner. You can install it all yourself in about 20 minutes, free.

You will need per trapeze

1 x Trapeze handle - http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=PNP171R

1 x Trapeze dogbone - http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF48B

1 x Pulley - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF20101&admin=admin

1 x Tie Ball - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF1318R

2 x Sister clips - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF536&admin=admin

2 x Thimbles - http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF482&admin=admin

<img src="http://www.ronstan.com.au/images/product/RF481.jpg" alt="" />

3 mm Dyneema (Marlow D12) length from hounds to about 700mm from chainplate (??) - http://www.marlowropes.com/public/pageManager.cfm?page_id=155

<img src="http://www.sailboats.co.uk/images/products/medium/58079.jpg" alt="" />

4 mm Spectra - http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemde...tAbsolutePage=1

<img src="http://www.whitworths.com.au/products/180414_superbraid_lg.jpg" alt="" />

Use 3 mm dyneema instead of wire. Splice a loop around a thimble at the top end.
How to splice - http://www.marlowropes.com/public/pageManager.cfm?page_id=208

<img src="http://64.78.32.235/assets/Adjust5.jpg" alt="" />

Second thimble, open slightly and place on the pulley.
Thread a trapeze handle on the other end and splice on another thimble with pulley attached.
Tie the 4mm spectra to the trapeze dogbone. Pass the other end of the spectra through the pulley, thread on a tie ball and tie on a sister clip.
Clip second sister clip on and tie a length of 4mm shock cord to it. This gets passed through an eyelet in the tramp, across to the other side where it will come out and join onto the lower sister clip of the other trapeze line.

I would suggest going down to a sailing club and asking someone to show you how to set it up.

That was a really good post T_A!

I agree with that.

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What is the advantage of the dyneema over wire? Easier to make, lighter?

The one disadvantage i can see is rope is prone to tangles and nasty knots.

And Steve have you ever had one of those series 20 ronstan blocks fail? I found the stainless steel strap gets bent then gets deformed. Ive never had one break on me but it completely stuffs the pulley. Might have something to do with the losds i'm putting it under! I ended up used the RF30100 http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF30100 .

I prefer the Harken micro blk to the Ronstan 20 or the no name blk that Murrays sells for trap set ups. I've had both deform in this application.
In attachmnet 3, are we looking at a chicken line diagram? Is there some low friction grommet that the lines pass thru entering the rear beam? Does the shock cord that retracts the retaining line terminate somewhere on the aft deck, pass thru the grommet to a blk secured inside the rear beam, and then exit the beam to an attachment to the retaining line? How is the interior blk secured? How is the shock cord attached to the retaining line? How is the retaining line attached to the trapeze dogbone?
Thanks so much, this is a great thread!

Dave

I have never used Dyneema for trap lines as the F18 class did not allow it, which frustrated me because I have a roll of D12. My next boat will have D12 traps.

Advantages are

- You can quickly make them up on the beach witout the need of a swaging tool.
- Lighter than wire
- Easier to roll at the end of the day then wire.
- Shows wear long before they fail. Wire can go without notice at times.

As for the 20 series Ronstan, I have never had them fail in that application and it is good enough for the rockstars (see above). Also use them on self tacking jibs and mast rotation. Have had them fail in spinnaker halyard applications. Like you said, the strap can bend if loaded up at a bad angle, distorting the casing and locking up the pully, quickly resulting in chewing out the pully. They are cheap though and if they show signs of distortion, just replace.

how long would you expect a D12 trap line to last? Do you have any special way of rolling them to avoid tangles. I'm thinking of going to this system but I can already see the mess I could get into.<img src=

alt=

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I've used the series 20 blocks many of places with no problems. It's just on the trap wires that they have got deformed. Must be something else I am doing wrong.

We had our spectra trapeze lines on the boat for four years without trouble. 3mm with a nylon cover.
To avoid tangles with any line, I never roll or coil them. Wires have to be rolled to avoid kinks and problems but I prefer to fold my lines and tie them off. By folding the line is not twisted like it would be if coiled. Folding is faster and takes less time than rolling in my experience <img src=

alt=

/>
Make the folds short enough for the line diameter, and it should come out of storage agan really well.

Here is one example on how to do it: http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2116049/butterflycoil-main_Full.jpg

Quoting one of Warbirds attachments.

I was unable to tell wether those lines were coiled or folded in the picture <img src=

alt=

/>

You know something funny! That image was originally posted by me and those were the trap lines I had/used on my blade. They were built by Trey Brown from Team Velocity Sailing.

WOW atleast give credit where credit is due warbird!

The traplines can even be made simpler.

I do advice using a bead instead of that figure 8 plastic thingy. The latter seems to do really well in eating through the line.

For 7 years now I use 3 mm dyneema line where I have made loops using a double figure 8 knot, Rock climbers know what I mean here. Personally I use a plastic thimble in the top loop where I tighten the loop in the line by stitching, however friends of mine have used only the line loop for long times without problems. At the bottom I put the line through the handle of secure it into place using a figure 8 knot or even better a blood knot (figure 8 with an extra rotation of the line around the line). Then at the very bottom another double figure 8 loop. This loop is permanent and it is secured to a stainless steel ring or shackle using a fishermans hitch. This knot can be tied and undone without fiddling with the line. Just move the line loop through the eye and cross it back over the eye itself. Dissassembly is in reverse. The fact that the bungee and the running line with dogbone is later attached makes becoming undo impossible and acts as extra security.

The ring or shackle replaces the ball bearing block and works just as well if not better as they don't bend out of shape or wear out. By careful to use shackles with circular sides and no lefts over barbs. Tie the dogbone to one end of the running line (fisherhitch again) and run the line through the ring or shackle. Tie a loop in the other end after you have slid the bead on the line. A sheet bend is the right not here (if that is the correct English name). This loop can easily be adjusted thus repositioning the bead for the right height of the trapeze. The loop itself can then be hooked by the bungee using a plastic hook. For quick trap height adjustement use the two rings of the dogbone.

This setup is by far the most inexpensive and most easy to make and will last for years. My 3 mm 500 kg break dyneema lines have so far survived 4 years of sailing and open air storage at the beach for 6 months each season. I weight close to 90 kg and sail in rough seas often.

Component list :

3 mm / 500 kg garanteed dyneema line
A plastic thimble (if so desired but can be doen without)
A plastic handle
A stainless steel ring of small diameter or a smooth small shackle
A short piece of 5 mm abbresive resistant dyneema line
A dogbone
A plastic bead large enough to not pass through the ring/shackel
A plastic hook
Bungee cord (I use 4 mm max as the dyneema trap lines are so light that they don't need a large retaining force)
Needle and thread if you want to stitch the thimble in tight.

Good luck

Wouter

: )

I just grab images when I see them and use them if I need and hold them on file for others and pass them on when people ask..

I figure a picture tells a thousand words....and others, like me need all the help they can get.

By the way, did I tell you guys that image was Robi's?....they were off his blade....

How much do you allow for line creep? If you want the handle X off the deck, how much shorter do you make it to get to X after hanging on it for a few days.
Wouter.
Why do you place a loop at the bottom (after the handle) to attach to the ring or shackle? Why not just the fisherman's knot?

Thanks,
Ken

If you use a high tech line like Amsteel it doesnt creep once the knots and splices have set. And I dont think any movement due to the splices setting is going to be noticable in the handle height.

I've made mine out of V12 and just add an open tail so I can make adjustements if I need to; just tie a hitch around the trap wire to stop it creaping when it's not under load.

I build my trap lines with no compensation for creep. Creep didn't appear to be a problem in the sets I have made so far.

I use a loop as that allows a fishermans hitch around any ring or shackle which is perfectly secure and allow quick and easy assembling/disassembling of trapeze line components. I learned from rock climbers about how practical closed loops are in securing lines. Through the same route I learned about the double figure 8 knot.

Additionally, this double figure 8 knot can double up as the knot holding the handle in place. It is nice and thick.

Wouter

OOOERR - knots in synthetic line. isn't there some sort of techno law against that?

You cut the strength of the line by a large amount with a knot, but that hardly matters if there still is strength enough for the application. Just the way I see it.

More on trapeze setups
If I have the trapeze set up for optimum length upwind s the wind increases
and I am trapping from behind the rear beam I am too high on the boat so would adjustable trapeze set up solve this or does it not matter if too high.
when on a screaming reach.

Thanks

Use adog bone.

Set the high end to be your upwind setting and then you should be about right on the lower for reaching at the back of the bus.

If it works its works, right !

(Also a reason to use the double figure 8 knot as that knots has the line make bends with a larger inner radius and thus reduces its break strengh less. There is a whole science associated to knots and there are a few very attractive knots that leave most of the line strength unaltered.)

Wouter