what did we learn from AC2013?

The top 1% can't afford this. Neither can the top 0.0001%...

I don't want drones the size of Boeings flying over populated areas.

I agree that no one wants to see an AC with computer-controlled boats. The engines in the 33rd were bad enough, at least they learned that lesson.

I don't ever want to see the AC dumbed down to a one-design event. Coming from one of the biggest proponents of SMOD, that says a lot.

Mike

Karl, you seem to be the only one wrapped around the axle on this! YOU need to calm the Fk down! Is it snowing up there already? Is that what's got you drinking early?

All I'm saying is, it's now up to Larry to decide which way it goes, I think he's got 3 choices:

1. Keep it exactly the same, same boats, same rules, same two or three teams who can afford it, if that.

2. Allow it to develop further. Maybe bigger and/or faster, more intricate and more automated systems to control the foiling, with computers, gyros, all that stuff Boeing's got sitting on the shelf today for a 787, installed on a flying boat. Hell, with enough time and money, they could probably just put floats on a 787, leave it on autopilot, and smoke everyone around the course, while some kid with a joystick sitting on the dock does the driving.

3. Dial it down a notch or two; use smaller boats, spend less money, but bring in more entrants.

So, as I said, and for YOU Karl, ALL I SAID, was, Where do we draw the line, when it comes to automation and sailing for the America's Cup?

How much is enough, how much more is too much?

Nobody is talking about going back to wooden J boats, or living in caves, or even northern Minnesota.

My personal opinion, automated hydrolically powered, computer controlled foils is fine with me, but all the steering and sail (wing) trimming should be 100% Human controlled, by hand/winch, not computer controlled or assisted.

And if they want to continue to foil, they should come up with a much better elevator control system than canting the daggerboard/foils back and forth. That's way too much work! It's like tilting the wings of an airplane up and down! Even the Wright Brothers knew that was nuts and used a canard, which would be like bow foils, which might work too. If they used small elevators on the rudders with internal hydraulic actuators, just like all the flight controls on an airplane. It would work much better/safer/cheaper/easier/faster.

BTW, I hate the hydraulics on principle, and wondered more than once why they grind with their arms and not their legs, which have substantially more power and stamina.

Of course, without hydraulics, I doubt they would have been as fast, especially through maneuvers.

Mike

The AC certainly showed how to publicise to a world audience a breathtaking, high speed race series. The onus is on sailing in general to follow through by getting the public up close to the action, having onboard cameras, screen effects to explain the wind, tides, shifts, course boundaries etc. The question is how to do that efficently for A class, F16 & 18 and other classes, while realistically being limited to a shoestring budge using for example, radio control drones, go pros, realtime tracking and special courses where the races go past the audience.

1/
close to shore racing is far better than 20 miles out to sea <img src="<>/crazy.gif" alt="crazy" title="crazy" height="15" width="15" />
& yes I was at Fremantle in Western Australia when we defended the cup way back when..... watch them sail out, go the pub and watch the racing on TV, then go back down to the dock and watch them sail back in..... if you were still capable of walking <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />
Being able to watch most of the racing from the shoreline is a MAJOR plus.

2/
Catamarans are far more exciting than monohulls to the non sailing people..... its a speed thing <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
As to whether they stay with cats or go for tri's is anyone's guess.

3/
the AC45 series is a MUST HAVE.
every premier class of sport has a support class that's

up there

with the big guns, Forumla 1, MotoGP, & even Nascar use other classes to support the main events, it also provides a stepping stone for those not quite prepared to go all the way <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
whilst the 72' aren't practicle to be packed up and moved from country to country for a true 'global' race series, the 45's are. We need to exploit this support class to the max in order to promote the big toys..... a similar global series like the F1's and MotoGP's have would be a huge boost to all forms of sailing.

4/
Use of WWW. is a huge plus <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
whilst I've only seen a few news highlights on the idiot-box, there has been very little if any actual coverage on TV here in Australia via free to air TV, thankfully YouTube and the live ability kept many of us well informed and up to date..... I must also say one member of this forum should be thanked for his endless supply of info throughout the entire series, a job well done !

5/
The classes need to be separated.
I still fail to understand how the US boat lost points from a so-called separate series infraction of the rules....
That's like a driver stuffing up in the nationwide series and being penalised in the sprint-cup series ..... doesn't happen !!!!
Separate them..... what happened during the 45's series should have stayed with the 45's series

6/
Keep up with technology but control the level of its use.
If I had told you 5 years ago we'd be racing for the America's Cup on carbon fibre catamarans with shrink-wraped wings for sails and we'd be above the water and not actually in it you'd have told me to step away from the crack-pipe... so its not a case of where will we be in a year or 2 but where do we want to be in 5 ~ 10years time ???

7/
the human element.....
As far as I'm concerned, the day we hand over a racing boat/car/plane or whatever to a tech-wiz with an xBox controller we have lost the true meaning of sport.
Human error and indeed human input is what any sport requires, be it on a mass produced hobie or a multi million dollar boat....
Take away the human and it may aswell be a app for the iPad, then and we can all play instead of dreaming of what could be, yeah that will give me inspiration to try harder..... NOT !!!

Having said that......
For me the 45's were an awesome series, close racing and a largish fleet of boats all out there to win, personally I'd like a similar format for the cup, ofcourse I can understand that these big boats need far more room and so 1-on-1 racing is a safe way to go..... but I wonder how much more exciting the main event could have been if ALL the 72's raced at the same time ......
How many of us would love to see Oracle, Artemis, Luna-Rossa, & Emirates all running down the same leg of the course at the same time ???

now that would be some serious racing to see <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

till next time we wait n see.... in the mean-time, haul to thar wind and hold ya water

<img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

How is that different from the last several iterations of the AC? Most of those dudes were grinders, too? Just mechanical grinding with one or two guys actually manipulating the sail trim. Don't they have two or three

trimmers

on the 34 AC boats which were actually adjusting sail/wing/foil trim?

And on the use of foot-grinders, didn't the French try that once? I think it was problematic to switch from forward to backward pedaling (back in the mechanical grinding days) when switching gears or sitting reverse in the 2-person coffee grinder station.

Now that things could be pneumatic or hydraulic, you may not need the

geared

stations (which would require reverse pedaling) and perhaps this concept should be looked at again.

Of course, after pedaling like Lance for a few minutes to then hop up and sprint across the trampoline might make for some comedic pictures. But it WOULD free up the operator's hands for other controls (sheet handling, etc)

I'm going to miss

sex-breath

...

HAL might be

running

the boat in terms of executing commands and making suggestions, but I suspect humans

sailed

that boat by adjusting the wing, foils and that skinny dude steering.

HAL provided all the intel (laylines, distance to tack, general wind/tide conditions, etc.) but someone had to make the actual call.

Could this be set up totally autonomous? Probably. I think that's where you'd draw a line somewhere...

besides San Fransisco, are there other areas where the weather is reasonably predictable?

I thought Plymouth, England was somewhat predictable for wind that time of year... Surely with all this computing power someone has developed a list of global locations with a good probability of certain conditions (like winds 15-25 kts, wave conditions not destructive, etc.)

I remember when the AC was in Fremantle, AUS, they had a fairly reliable wind they called

The Doctor

blowing about 15+, daily about 2pm I think.

DC built a heavy air boat just for The Doctor, but on the light air days, he got crushed.

Computers trimming foils is the same as computers trimming wings. Air VS water but has the same effect on the boat.

The 2 AC 45s that were on display in the cup park and the village had been modified to foils but the boards were still the class boards. But there were 2 fore/aft servo boxes right behind the front cross bar. I think these were the two O had modified for foil testing.

I don't have a problem with hydraulics but I want the controls to be manual.
As far as the tablets and GPS. No problem. They are not sailing the boat. It is just a way to supply information.

does the wind work close to shore?

But that's a start. I recall

the Doctor

mentioned a lot during that series.

But recall the AC45s can get powered up in light air, too (at least enough to make a show of it...)

And maybe keeping the AC45 design as is might be a good

step

, since many sailors/teams would need to become intimately versed in using the wing foil before they step further and move to hydrofoils...?

Are hydraulics that different than mechanical gears (winches) and lines? Both move in or out based on human input (either through direct manual manipulation or programming)

Some human should make and execute the decision (to trim/ease or change direction). How that command is executed (electronic, manual, hydraulic) doesn't matter as much in my mind

And drone jets will follow just as soon as the public gets used to driverless cars (at which point Google will make trillions)

We don't seem to have a problem with roller coasters and other

driverless

entertainment, even when it's assembled and run by folks with IQ lower than my shoe size...

As to light air days, why not just let them have two sets of daggerboards and they can pick which ones to use on any given day? Bummer if you pick the straight boards and the breeze fills, but I dont see how that is any different than leaving the code O on shore and then needing it....THe boards are your underwater sails, let them have different sets just like with sails...

According to statements by Coutts, there was no software control of foils.

I'm good with that, but would rather watch races in moderate winds rather than drifters...

With two boats and the high speeds of being able to get to the next wind puff or tidal stream, there seems little chance of passing once one boat is behind.

What if there were three boats racing, there would always be one boat with the chance of not being covered, we may then get much tighter racing as the lead boat would always have to play conservatively to prevent any chance of one boat taking a flyer to one side or other.

I thought we saw quite a bit of passing in this AC.

More than any other AC in history

as I remember it.

I have to say that this has been the most enjoyable amcup in my living history save 1983 <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />.

As far as I'm concerned, stick with the 72's. Tighten up the rules a bit if necessary and have a yearly 45 world cup season a-la F1 in the great ports of the world.

My only wish would be foiling 45's in a 15 boat fleet (death) race