Speaking of Sailing Anarchy,
There's a story there today about how all skippers will be required to be members of US Sailing if Jim Capron's ideas come to fruition.
For several years, the leadership at US SAILING (the Board of Directors and numerous committees) has discussed the necessity and fairness of getting sailors to be members of the organization. The most likely method of obtaining membership would be through a new US SAILING Prescription for the 2009-2012 Racing Rules of Sailing that would require US SAILING membership of racing sailboat owners and skippers. This possible requirement is currently being reviewed.
http:/
Um, yeah, that's what Matt said...
Matt posted this literally while in the room in which Jim was presenting his side as to why US SAILING was pushing the Prescription.
Personally, I think we should all belong to US SAILING (for a variety of reasons, and the rule isn't one of them). For those of you who think multihulls aren't important to US SAILING, all I can say is that I heard several people, who weren't multihull sailors, pointing out to Jim that we have large numbers and need to be taken seriously (paraphrasing here).
I do think (and let Jim and the Rules Committee know) that the verbiage of the draft prescription is a disaster in terms of enforcement. Not so much for our boats, but bigger ones. Dick Rose seemed impressed with my suggestion, as it makes his life easier (I suggested they use the verbiage of the IHCA class rule regarding membership requirements).
In reponse to the questions about
paper
YCs, again, as Matt said, they are completely acceptable. The problem is, if you want a certification (RC, etc.), there is a paper form which requires a physical signature of a flag officer who recommends you. That might be tough to get from a paper club, and an officer who doesn't know you from a hole in the wall.
Mike
USSailing should try to get people to WANT to be a member, not use tactics to FORCE people to become members.
BINGO!!!!!
That is EXACTLY the point that was being made to Jim by lots of people in the room (the phrase
carrot and stick
came up a LOT of times).
Not sure that he gets it, though, time will tell...
Mike
Exactly, even moreso because they charge you $60 for the priveledge...
The first question to be answered is, What are they doing for me and my $60?
Junior programs? I'm not a junior and most are run by clubs, and they charge you.
Olympics? I'm not going.
Hold clinics? Are they free? No, you have to pay.
A free rule book. I can get it online at Amazon for $10.
I went to the US Sailling Center in Marting Co. Fl., told them I was a US Sailing member, I would like to borrow a Hobie 16. They looked at me like I was from Mars. There was NO WAY they were going to let me out on one of their boats, member or not, so what's the point? The funny part? I'll bet some of my dues money went to a
grant
to help build that club. They are really good at turing people away.
I went to a RYA club in Hove, England. Walked in the front door, didn't know a soul and not a memeber. I told them I would like to rent a boat right now. They said,
Sure, it's $20
(pounds actually, more in dollars). They said,
Here's a wetsuit, there's the locker room, and there is a class going on now if you want to jump in.
I had a great 4 hours sailing and then they bought me beer at their bar when we finished.
Do you see a difference in attitude here? Any wonder why the Brits do so well at sailing? They encourage new people to join in, no big checks to write, no club membership required, while US Sailing discourages it unless you first join a Club...for hundreds -or thousands- of dollars.
Now they want to make it mandatory, yeah, that'll work.
What do the membership dues fund?
Hey, how much does it cost teams to race in the actual Alter Cup? (not the qualifiers)
I know the individuals racing have to pay for insurance which is pricey (although not having insurance would certainly be pricier). They have to pay for their own accomodations (unless a local is nice enough to house them). So what does USSailing actually provide other than their name- and the requirement that you must be a member to sail in it?
Through my sailing club I am also a member of our MNA. If I want to, I can get the budget and the accounts for our MNA. I can get them either by contacting the MNA administration directly or through our club or our regional authority.
Personally I dont think you should expect to recieve much directly from a MNA. I would expect representation and assistance if we ran into trouble with access to areas, political trouble (like your DHS) and at most access to good insurance. I would expect the same opportunities as other classes, if we made the same comittment. It is expensive to have representation..
I think having a discussion over the value of joining US Sailing will not be very productive unless you know where the money are going. Perhaps you can get access to their budget and post a small summary of where the money are being used. A good topic for
Catamaran sailor
perhaps?
To me it sounds like much of the trouble you have in the US is becouse the catamarans sailors usually are not members of sailing clubs. If you have
flag officers
and the like, I can understand why as it sounds very much like
stiff upper lip
clubs. But staying unorganized sounds like a loosing proposition over time, with beaches closing and more and more laws becoming troublesome. Representation and organization have great value when you need it.
If multihull sailors accounted for 20% of US Sailings members, it would be very hard for them to not listen to multihull sailors. John Williams would be wielding some real power in that case.
flag officers
and the like, I can understand why as it sounds very much like
stiff upper lip
clubs. But staying unorganized sounds like a loosing proposition over time, with beaches closing and more and more laws becoming troublesome. Representation and organization have great value when you need it.
Heaven forbid I encourage creating another internet organizational entity, but whats stopping multihullers from doing the same thing that Sailing Anarchy or Scuttlefutts has done?
A nationwide, online
yacht
club?
why should i join? i know nothing about it.
Perhaps that is my own fault, but i think it is a good
sample
of the problem. I LOVE cat sailing, sail 100 days a year, read all that i can about it. Surf the web looking for data but dont know why i should join. I have been to their site a few times to read some rules, but thats it.
flag officers
and the like, I can understand why as it sounds very much like
stiff upper lip
clubs. But staying unorganized sounds like a loosing proposition over time, with beaches closing and more and more laws becoming troublesome. Representation and organization have great value when you need it.
Heaven forbid I encourage creating another internet organizational entity, but whats stopping multihullers from doing the same thing that Sailing Anarchy or Scuttlefutts has done?
A nationwide, online
yacht
club?
What do I get out of it?
p.s. that was slightly sarcastic.
I am currently a member...but I am evaluating my renewal palns for this year.
I'd like to see a way to earmark my membership dues to my class or boat type of choice. That way US Sailing knows that this money should only/primarily be used to promote that form of sailing. They would also have a clearer picture of where there funding is coming from and can make better decisions than they have in the past.
Hey, how much does it cost teams to race in the actual Alter Cup? (not the qualifiers)
I know the individuals racing have to pay for insurance which is pricey (although not having insurance would certainly be pricier). They have to pay for their own accomodations (unless a local is nice enough to house them). So what does USSailing actually provide other than their name- and the requirement that you must be a member to sail in it?
I believe it costs the Alter Cup commitee $500/boat. So $5K per year out of a fund that was established specifically for this purpose. Im assuming the account has enough in it to generate $5K of interest per year. JW maybe can confirm this.
The Alter Cup is certainly something positive for multihull sailors from US Sailing. Although it could just as easily be run from anothor organization as catsailors do the legwork (and if a comparable bugdet to pay the $5k could be found).
Mary used to run a US Sailing membership renewal for cats in a program called the
Golden Anchor
I think. Is that still the case Mary? Should we all pool our memberships to US Sailing and put
Multihull Membership
on it, so they know we are members and we do care about how much support we get, from them?
How/why does it cost 500/boat? What does that 500$ pay for?
flag officers
and the like, I can understand why as it sounds very much like
stiff upper lip
clubs. But staying unorganized sounds like a loosing proposition over time, with beaches closing and more and more laws becoming troublesome. Representation and organization have great value when you need it.
Heaven forbid I encourage creating another internet organizational entity, but whats stopping multihullers from doing the same thing that Sailing Anarchy or Scuttlefutts has done?
A nationwide, online
yacht
club?
What do I get out of it?
p.s. that was slightly sarcastic.
The honor of being in charge. Commodore!
p.s. that was completely sarcastic 😛
The US Sailing Multihull Council provides $5,000 towards the charter boats for the Alter Cup. This money comes out of the Hoyt Jolly Fund and yes, it is scraped off the interest this fund generates each year.
Timbo-
The Golden Anchor program for multihulls still exists, it is now coordinated by John Williams. As some have mentioned here, it is FAR from obvious how to join or renew from the website.
Here's how to access the form:
www.ussailing.org, under Racing, Sailboat Classes, Multihulls... At the bottom of that page, under Links, Golden Anchor Membership.
Now, there is a caveat that I'm not sure is well known (I just found it on the website by accident yesterday). Technically, all clubs that have a GA program are required to charge the
differential fee
to non-members.
I know that I sail at a lot of regattas, and not many of them do this anymore. It's (almost?) never in the NORs either, which I would think would be expected per the RRS (falls under Elibility).
An interesting point would be, are all multihull classes expected to conform to this since the GA program is open to all multihull classes? Or, is that a bad assumption (is there a specific list of classes that are covered)???
As to the $500 per boat for the Alter Cup, that sounds reasonable. Running a week-long event for just 20 teams has to be insanely expensive on a per-team basis.
Mike
For easier access to information on US SAILING:
Golden Anchor discounted membership for Multihull sailors, http:/
Alter Cup, http:/
Youth Multihull Championship
http:/
And Sailorship, A new program to provide Financial Aid to Junior Sailors, see http:/
There are many reasons to be an active member of US SAILING. The above are just a few.
Caleb Tarleton
What USSA should do:
1) Represent the USA at the international level. The primary purpose of this representation should be to policially constrain the power of IYRU.
2) Assure that a common set of rules are used across the country(this was why NAYRU was founded, originally each area had its own set of rules)
3) Provide trained appeals judges.
That's it. I think USSA should be able to accomplish this with a staff of 2 and a budget of <$1M.
What USSA should NOT do:
1) Run any regattas (including championships). Regattas are run by clubs and sanctioned by classes. By sponsoring regattas USSA is in direct conflict with its own constituents. The USSA ladder events are pale imitations of the real championships most competitors care about such as the National Championships.
2) Teach sailing. Clubs and classes have great training programs. Once again USSA is competing with its own constituents, and doing a comparatively poor job of it.
3) Create a unified schedule. This is (and should be) a class and/or YRA issue.
4) Fund any sailors or sailing events out of membership dues. This includes ladder events, olympic events, olympic sailors, handicapped sailors, etc. If USSA wants to establish a seperately funded subsidiary that's fine, just don't use the dues or any facilities/equipment that is derived from dues. I find it offensive a mandatory tax I pay to race sailboats is used to pay other people to race sailboats.
5) Train judges and/or race committees (this should be the job of the YRA).
6) Fund the development of a handicaping system. The VPP/IMS/Americap debacle was disgraceful. USSA using hundreds of thousands of extorted dollars to purposely undercut establshed classes.
From Sailing Anarchy and written by a big boat sailor in my region whom I have great respect for.
I like his proposal. This would mean...
No Alter qualifiers or championships.
No Olympic coaches on the payroll
No Olympic class regattas.... Leave that up to the International class to organize.
No Junior Olympic /ISAF qualfying regattas. Again. leave it up to the international class to manage.
No funding for the Portsmouth System. (See RYA proposal)
No group policy for insurance to run regattas. (marketplace solutions no need for ussa sanctioned)
No group policy for charters (leasing or purchasing)
It would shift the emphasis to your RSA and club.
Under these circumstances... I would be happy to be a mandatory member for a nominal fee.
Then it would shift the work load to your RSA which will have to address the administrative issues of the sport in a manner that you could effect locally. These costs would be addressed locally and probably with mandatory membership fee.
I would be happy to pay
US Sailing 5 to 10 bucks for these services (mandatory to race)
RSA (CBYRA in my case) for 45 bucks (mandatory to race) The RSA trains judges, trains RC, certificaton of junior sailing instuctution organizes schedule, maintains regional highpoints, runs the appeals process. place to go to have rc fixed. Yacht club and individual membership based. Membership enforced at the Yacht Club level ... when you want to race in your region ... you join.
Other fees,
Class dues Purpose to allow the class to run national and mid winter championships and what ever else they want to do..
Handicap fleet membership dues... (Not all racing is one design... this would support a handicap rating system of your choosing PHRF, Portsmouth or SCHRS what ever your region uses)
Club dues /Regatta fees
Comments/
differential fee
to non-members.
I think that's kinda why the Multihull Council set up its own Golden Anchor Program years ago, since so many clubs and fleets don't have one. It gives ALL multihull sailors a way to join USSailing at a lesser cost. Plus if you DO go to a regatta put on by a club or fleet that charges the differential price, you have your membership card, so you get the lower price. <img src=
alt=
/>
I tend to agree with you Mark (and the anonymous big boat sailor) with one major exception: Anyone who administers the sport on the water (Judges, Race Officers, Umpires) need to be trained to a consistent set of criteria. They are all applying aspects of the rules and it's important that those applications be consistent nationally and internationally.
Put all race administration training under the US SAILING umbrella and call it a day.
Nearly all 501(c)(3) organizations tax forms 990 are available with free registration at guidestar.org . Search for
US Sailing
and they are about the 3rd link. It details where your money is going. For 2006, 7.8M in revenue, 6.8M in expenses. 5.8M is providing services:
- 1.6M Olympic
- 1.9M Race Mangement
- 1.1M newsletter and communication with 34000 members
- 860k in keelboat and training
Keep in mind that not-for-profit doesn't mean they don't make profits. It means the profits are put back into the organization to pursue their public purpose.
Have to agree with Matt about the RC and judge training.
I am completely clueless on where $1.9M could have been spent on
Race Management.
What the hell does that include? When has anyone gotten a red cent from US SAILING to help run a regatta?
Mike
Race management includes training of judges and race officers, administering the handicap systems, and publishing the rules. Actually I mistyped it... should have been
administration
not
management
.
It would make more sense if it were just
Administration
and included salaries, rent, meeting costs, travel, etc.
There has to be something else included under this umbrella. It is completely unfathomable that is costs $1,900,000 to train and certify judges and ROs,
administer
handicaps and publish rules.
Mike
administer
handicaps and publish rules.
Mike
Its the stickers...
Why cant they update the portsmouth numbers. 2 years! C'mon man, is anybody awake in there? No offense John and Jake but I will think hard about renewal.
Lee Wicklund/Team Chums