Holy crap that was crazy. When you first dumped and your crew was caught up in the ropes and the boat was slowly going over, I was biting my nails. Then he got separated and the tension went up. Nice soundtrack.
Good lesson on why you should always stay with the boat.
wasn't my boat... It was durring the miami-key largo race and was posted on the other cat site.
That video is full of lessons.
I would put "Get the crew untangled from the lines before everything else" as #1.
No Radio. No whistle. Doing a distance race barefooted. Darwin award.
Edited by mummp on May 08, 2012 - 10:05 AM.
I'm just an inland wuss, but that looks remarkably dangerous. Ditto on what Philip said, and also no chicken line? And why isn't the crew holding on to the sheets he's tangled in.
I'd sure be pissed at that rudder system... hobies. sheesh
and also no chicken line? And why isn't the crew holding on to the sheets he's tangled in.
i have not seem many cats with chicken lines.
I would have to guess the skipper and crew are not extremely experienced.
They failed to get (or attempt) the bows into the wind which exacerbated:
the separation of crew (she was rescued by sea-tow), increased wave troubles, additional capsizes, and inability to control the vessel both in the water and after righting.
Edited by MN3 on May 08, 2012 - 02:20 PM.
double post
Edited by MN3 on May 08, 2012 - 02:20 PM.
I would have to guess the skipper and crew are not extremely experienced.
They failed to get (or attempt) the bows into the wind which exacerbated:
the separation of crew (she was rescued by sea-tow), increased wave troubles, additional capsizes, and inability to control the vessel both in the water and after righting.
OMGosh, this is the most sobering beachcat video I have ever seen.
Rick White's Sailing Drills Book Needed Here
Pages 14 and 15 - How to:
Stop Fast
Park
Backup
All of which would have allowed his crew to catch up, or given him time to locate her and sail toward her.
She was in the water alone for an hour before she was rescued by someone else.
The line between this outcome and tragedy is very thin.
Thank goodness that he had the stamina to right his 16 single-handed multiple times.
Bob,
No disrespect here but I've been in those conditions more than I care to. Your not going to stop, park or backup in any controlled fashion. You are in survival mode. Highly unlikely he could turn the boat through a reach to retrieve her, gibes were instant pitch poles, and the speed of separation is incomprehensible. He couldn't even see her. His biggest mistake was leaving the beach. Some of the most experienced top notch sailors that day stayed in. They knew their limits.
I do agree that everyone should learn the skills mentioned, especially at the start sequence when racing.
It's days like that that make us better sailors.
Edited by flaco on May 08, 2012 - 07:06 PM.
I'd sure be pissed at that rudder system... hobies. sheesh
I agree makes me glad for my prindle rudders. Don't think I would have been able to even recover that tiller by myself in those conditions.
the speed of separation is incomprehensible
I don't know what it was blowing that day, but even in what I'd call medium winds this is extremely true.
I had a boat pull up to me to help one day and an older gent, maybe 55-60, offered to help. I said sure; I was exhausted and needed to get in.
He started to jump in next to the boat (instead of in my path). I said stop. He jumped and started swimming. I said stop swimming, you're going to exhaust yourself and there is no way you'll ever catch me.
He had to be rescued. And he was amazed afterwards as he thought he was a good swimmer. I told him it had nothing to do with it.
You won't catch a capsized cat with the wind blowing on the tramp once it gets away from you.
That was sobering. The crew was having constant trouble unhooking, and it looked like the boat was going to turtle on top of her while she dangled from the hook. I need to think about the righting line on my Prindle, which is stuffed in the tramp pocket and not easy or fast to get to. It sure would be nice if the Prindle had a way to rig a righting line along the hull that you could easily reach, or maybe I need to think about a righting pole.
Also thinking about an externally strapped knife for quick access, a SCUBA inflatable tube for visability in high seas, bright colored hat (instead of camo!)....
video blocked in my country
due to music violation
youtube sucks
just screen it without audio!
crazy kids!...let's hope they learned something.
mummp wrote: His biggest mistake was leaving the beach.
Agreed.
And Phillip, I have never though of you as disrespectful.
From our armchair view of videos and second-hand events here, it's easy to miss the big picture sometimes.
Thanks for pointing that out for me.
Bob
I think I woul have tried to turtle that boat as soon as the crew was free. I don't have as much experience as others but I knew trying to sail solo back to the crew was gonna be easy.
That whole thing scared the pants off me. But kudos to the guy for posting it as a warning to others. I could have done without the music, though.
I wonder how many of the more experienced sailors told them to stay out of the water that day. Judging by the overwhelming gusto, I can't tell if they would've noticed wiser heads sitting out the race. A couple of races I went to years ago, the experts were ready to tell people they did something wrong, but were pretty close-lipped when it came to telling people how to do it right (like knowing when it's more prudent not to put your boat in the water!) There's a world of difference.
Lots of food for thought on that video. I like my rudder system more now. I'm getting more whistles, which I'm attaching to our PFDs with lanyards. I want to change my righting line setup. And a new word of warning for anyone who gets on the boat: Don't get your leg wrapped by a sheet! CRAP I thought she was gonna drown.
Tom
Here's a link to the results, not many cats finished.
Granted Doug seems to have a lot to learn about sailing in those conditions and he would have been far better off learning them with help closer by, but he *did* finish the race and I'm sure he did learn quite a bit.
While we are criticizing him for what he did wrong, let's give him some credit for what he did right. I think Doug did the right thing when his crew was tangled, he made sure the boat didn't turtle on top of her while she figured out how to get free, for example.
If you are the last one on the boat and its blowing away from the other crew faster than they can swim turtle the boat. Let the crew recover then fix the inverted capsize together.
He was very lucky the girl didn't come home in a body bag if it hadn't been for Seatow.
I think Doug did the right thing when his crew was tangled, he made sure the boat didn't turtle on top of her while she figured out how to get free, for example.
Daniel, thanks for pointing that out. When I was watching the video I thought, "Why's he getting in position to right the boat when his crew is tied up by one leg, head under water?!" Duh. He was buying her time.
So here's a question for everyone: Specifically, what would you do differently? (Aside from staying on the beach, that is.) In terms of gear on the boat, sailing techniques on the water, MOB techniques, etc., what would you do?
I'm not trying to belabor a point. I really do want to know. Here's why: The Alenuihaha Channel is about fifteen miles north of where I'll be putting in. Winds in the channel regularly get above 35 knots. No, I have absolutely no desire to sail there. But I've been kiting all over this island for years. Some days the wind behaves itself. Other days the wind shifts, and the channel winds can take as much as a 45 degree dip southward. It's entirely possible to go from gentle 5kt onshores to screaming 35kt offshores. I hate facing a known risk without a plan. As several people have pointed out, had the crew not been rescued, that could've turned out much much worse. Rescues here are no more of a guarantee than they are in Florida. If I can do a little planning now (whistles for all, brightly colored caps, inflatable tubes, knife belt, regular MOB drills, etc.) I'm all for it.
Tom
Bethwaite trapeze hooks (ball & socket) Pete
Specifically, what would you do differently?
I'll bite...
What would I do differently?
1) I would make sure I had a chance to practice in that sort of breeze with a "safety net" at hand. Benedict, I suggest you find somebody who has a motor boat to go out with you in some of those screaming winds so you can learn the particulars of your boat with help close by just in case. That way when you do get caught in it, you won't be surprised by how different sailing is in a blow. And don't let your motor boat friend help you when you have the slightest problem, he's there in case of a genuine emergency, not just to help you right the boat because you're rather tired. One of the things you have to learn to do is rest. 🙂
2) MOB techniques: Again, practice is the key. Every time I go out, I find some flotsam in the water to pick up. Rescuing an inanimate object is harder than rescuing a person who can swim toward the boat, and as a bonus I now have several hats. 🙂 Can't find any flotsam? Lucky you! Try using some of your own jetsam instead. I used to take my daughter out when she was 5. We had an orange foam ball. She would throw the ball in the water, and it was her job to keep an eye on it while I sailed away, then came back to pick it up.
3) I noticed in the video when the crew was in the water, her life vest was riding up, practically covering her face. I see this kind of problem a lot. The vest isn't comfortable so people will loosen up the straps, then when they hit the water, the vest causes more problems than it cures. Tighten up that vest! Make sure it won't ride up on you.
4) Equipment failures are serious. While watching the video, long before the first capsize, I saw that the crew was having trouble with her trap line (1:35 or so,) and the leeward rudder was kicking up (3:30.) These problems came to haunt the boat later. If I notice something isn't right about the boat or my crew, even if I'm in a race, I will heave to or go to shore right away and fix it. This isn't always an easy thing to do, there is a powerful urge to just muddle on. Just don't.
Specifically, what would you do differently?
Some feel that a part of racing is pushing yourself into sailing in conditions you normally wouldn't... and that is a small part of why i don't race very often. When i used to snow ski... rule #1 was never ski out of control or in conditions you can't handle.... i feel the same rules apply here.
I would have made sure my crew was free the second i saw they needed assistance. I would have been yelling at my crew too... (DONT LET GO OF THE LINES once you are free)
after the crew was free.. i would have made sure the sheets were uncleated, and the tiller cross bar was in the correct place
I would have faced my cat into the wind... that would have made the situation so much more manageable and prevented the boat from taking off like a rocket once righted
after the 2nd or 4th capsize, i would have fixed my jib so i could sail to weather (it was wrapped up)
i can't really tell, but it doesn't look all that downhauled either.. i would have surely down and outhauled the snot out of that sail
not 100% sure about how H16's should be sailed in these conditions, but i would probably not double trap and let the crew sit behind me (they were both getting T-bagged a few times). the skipper was so far back, that he was holding the tiller above the rudders and I could easily believe he actually unlocked his rudders from that angle.
Edited by MN3 on May 09, 2012 - 08:26 AM.
Don't most 16s have reef points as well?
Don't most 16s have reef points as well?
no, those were ended with the comp tip
i know they were moving very fast, but those conditions didn't look like they warrented double trapping and reefing.. but hard to really tell from my desk
Anyone else notice the number of the sail? 5105:
CA Police code for crazy one on the loose. Danger to property, danger to others, and danger to themselves...
yurdle wrote: Don't most 16s have reef points as well?
His sail doesn't have reef points, and his jib is fully battened. Once the jib got wrapped around the forestay, the only way to unwrap it would have been to go downwind, and jibe around. However, that would have put him even further from his sister (who was still within sight at the time,) and every time he tried to turn down wind, he pitch polled.
After righting the first time, when his crew was in the water, heaving to might have helped depending on how much leeway he would have made, maybe his sister could have caught up to the boat, or maybe getting back in the water and holding the bow into the wind while using himself as a sea anchor. I'm not so sure about these ideas though.
a hobie 16 is a wild ride on days like that, you have to know your stuff to stay upright. now a p-16 is way better suited for that kind of blow, especialy if your fat!