What is the pole length?
From where do you sheet the spinnaker?
How high up above the hounds or below the masthead do you place the halyard turning block?
Appreciate the help,
Thanks,
Rick
Thats the older system...
The current spinnaker setup on the 16 comes from Hobie Europe and instructions are in the kit. I'll see if I can come up with an electronic version.
http:/
pages 31 & 32 refer to Hobie europe 16 spinnaker but they
do not provide dimensions. - Maybe Matt can supply those.
I don't have a pole to measure, so maybe someone else can supply that. The instructions simply refer to halyard tang placement on the mast. For a Comptip mast you use a H14 tang at 1375 mm above the shroud tang.
There is one at Miami YC already set up. Jamie Livingston is going to get the specs for me.
Thanks anyway,
Rick
The spinnaker pole that came with my 2009 Hobie 16 is 10'-7
from the pin that attaches below the mast step to the bow end. The hoop for the spinnaker snuffer is 43.5
from the bow end.
If you want a cheap exciting way to turbo your 16 try this. Use an old windsurfer mast for the pole. Make it 3.5 mt long. Get youreslf an old style F18 21 mt kite with luff length 8.5 meters. It will be very fast and easy to control. Use the holes for the front trap in the tramp to mount the spinny sheet ratchet blocks and then a pulley on the front beam to give friction on the ratchet. I use that configuration for years as a single hander. Faster than nearly every other boat downwind!
So did you get your spinnaker set up? I am curious as to how the Hobie 16 handled with a spinnaker. Was it a handful or was it manageable? Was it fast?
I have seen lots of videos of H16s with spinnakers on youtube and I have to say it does look quite cool. I race in a small mixed fleet and most of the boats are rated much faster (H21SE, Dart 20, Tiger ). I was wondering if the spinnaker would help me keep up to the crowd. Or maybe it might slow me down given that it might be too much to handle especially when it gets windier.
Tx for your reply. Sailing single handed myself also most of the time I wanted to add a spi to get some experience and for fun.
I've been warned for the handicap (we generally use the Texel rating overhere): hardly anything to gain... [if at all]
Do you have any pictures available? I'm rather curious !!!
as long as you use a long enough pole [3.2m] the spinny gives the bows loads of lift and the 16 can be driven hard under spinnaker and feels great.
The sad thing is that there are days when the stock 16 goes as fast [light winds]!
Turning block is 1350mm above hounds
Sorry, I dont have any pics and now sail F16. My advice is just do it. I have used FX1, F16 F18 and H16 spinnies and found the best was the 21mt F18 kite with 8.5 mt luff. The best pole length was 3.5mts. It is easy to sail single handed and takes out the tendancy for the boat to pitchpole so you can push hard downwind, flying one hull all the way. I used a snuffer as well which makes life easy. The best thing you can do to a H16.
Makes my enthousiastic anyway !!
However I got rather little spi experience (none on a H16) so I got some additional questions:
Mast rotation
Other cat sailors (Hobie & Nacra F18, Tornado a.o.) told me reduce mast rotation heavily and sheet in main sheet otherwise the mast won't survive. H16 has no controlled mast rotation - on the contrary. Sheeting in max will cause mast rotation to be max. Thus the mast will be in a rather weak position and most likely flex into S-shape....
I can think of ways to limit mast rotation but that will make my H16 not class legal anymore.
2 piece mast
My mast has a section and can be split for easy transportation. I can imagine this will make my mast even more vulnearable / fragile. Suitable for spi or special precautions required?
spi sail area
In addition to above: standard H16 spi seems to be approx 14 m2. The recommended F18 spi ± 21 m2. Former (why did they change to antoher cat ??) H16 sailors strongly recommended me to stick to 14 m2 max. Which is opposite your advice. Or should I (sailing alone..) limit myself to f.i. 3-4 Bft???
[Still eager to start spi sailing on my Hobie 16 !!]
H16 mast is built like a telgraph pole, even with a join! Just keep the traveller near center and the mainsail leech pretty straight [as the picture above] and mast behaves fine.
TeamVMG is quite right. The mast on a 16 is very strong but ALWAYS keep plenty of mainsheet tension to act as a rear stay. Do you have any spinnakers available? I would just use whatever you can get your hands on. I found the 21mt kite as easy as any to use. It seemed to have the power to keep the boat steady whereas the smaller ones let the boat stop and start in the waves. Dont worry too much about it. Just get whatever is available and start having fun. Then decide later which one might suit best.
Still been unable to obtain a used spi. In the meantime I saw a H16 which had - outside - re-inforcements on the nose tips. Another H16 user told me his cat was factory ready for use with spi and had re-inforced hulltips (inside). I own my H16 since 1992 and use it frequently and rather hard. Most likely my hulls are not prepaired. Should I do so and when yes what is proper procedure ?? The outside parts seems easiest way hope I can find them somewhere...
That would be a Hobie Cat Europe deal. We do not do H16s with spinnakers standard in the US. Contact them for specifics. www.hobie-cat.com
we had a 16 that was about that age when I first saw the bow tangs starting to fail
I turned the boat upside down and filled the channel under the hull join/lip with glass/resin tapering out about 300mm back on each side. Ooops, some carbon may have fallen in there too.
If you do this, put a greased bolt or something throught the bow tang hole first so that the fibres go either either side of it. Then, when you put a longer bolt in the bow tangs, you don't drill through all the reinforcing that you just did.
I can't believe that you can't find a second hand spinny in the netherlands! we have got a decent one and a trashed one here if you like. make me an offer
Took some years but finally decided to mount European standard spi because of 2 reasons:
- fellow H16 sailor joined me so we modified 2 cats simultaneously so we can continue catsailing together - with equal gear !
- sailing alone mostly the 17 m2 might be easier to handle than suggested alternative (f18 spi = 21 m2)
Results: 4-5 Bft and 2 man crew just fun. Did enjoy H16 sailing but this is adding another dimension. However alone and unsteady (but light !) wind will require some more training.
Hope to be able to upload pictures sometime
Enclosed pics of both cats. Orange for my german friend - mine is white !
Also shown the reinforcement of the bow which seems really necessary for
older
Hobie 16 cats.
Only for information - picture does not show one of our cats.
Intend to make a footstrap at the end of the hull and add a line with hook to secure myself against flying forward when the hulls submerge. Which does not always end up in a pitch pole we/I found out...
And trying to find a way to clear the mess of lines on the trampoline...
Could use some help making sailing with spi alone more secure.
Standing in trapeze aft on the tramp sometimes with 1 foot on the hull I would like to have a footstrap. When the wind suddenly eases the aft foot is likely to be flushed away due to poor bouyancy.
On the other hand with risk of pitchpoling I would like to have
chicken
line as well. When sailing on F18 we use line with hook. Just attach to trapeze ring and your position is rock solid. Of course 2 man crew is more easy !
Hobie 16 of course is more tricky and less forgiving. But that is probably why we love her...
Any recommendations ? Please shoot !
Sailed quite a lot both single handed and with crew.
Have to admit I slightly underestimated Spi-sailing especially alone. But great fun:
match racing
to identical H16 with spi. <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />
However I'm a little amazed to read Pauls comment about loads of lift. I would merely say the tendency to dive has decreased (a little). Sailing with crew we'll have a crew weight of approx 180 kgs so buyancy is critical. <img src="<>/whistle.gif" alt="whistle" title="whistle" height="15" width="15" />
Light wind with a sudden windblow made rudders effectless so we flipped.
Sailing single handed its quite a mess on the tramp. Short of time and hands of course. Should be able to get better control when in trapeze but did not dare yet.. No way to fix myself against being thrown to the bow (when diving) or to the aft (waves !!) How do you guys cope with that ? Thinking about adding foot strap(s) rather than a line. Security matter: don't want to be drown being slept behind my own cat somehow...
Last weekend we practised ± 18-20 kn wind with crew. Experienced same challenges: sudden gale gave hardly any lift. Might as well we need to move our weight more to the aft but with unsteady wind very uncertain condition. Also short but steep waves demanded special attention. Dived more than once till the water almost reached the front crossbar ! Just managed to avoid flipping over ...
Fellow catsailors on F18 standing in trapeze at the utmost aft position passing by
effortless
.. <img src="<>/crazy.gif" alt="crazy" title="crazy" height="15" width="15" />
A pole length of 3,5 m' is recommended earlier. Ours is only just 3,1 m'. Also compared with F18 spi (21 m2) ours is smaller (17 m2) Could that make substantial difference in bow lift ?
Keep you posted ! And any suggestions / advice ?
Please do. Some previous comments seem to indicate you are spi-sailing alone with far less control problems ? <img src="<>/confused.gif" alt="confused" title="confused" height="15" width="15" />