Doesn't matter which one wins, we've all already lost.
[video]
RIP, Richard...
Mike
Don't do that, Karl. You'll have no reason to complain if you didn't participate. Not that you'd ever complain about anything.... right?
You need sunshine. Your vitamin D is dropping like a stone up there.. Make a stop at Steeplechase and jump on someone's boat.
Ha! that's funny Ronald! It's always good to hear what the rest of the world thinks of this train-wreck we call
politics in the media
..
My sincerest hope is that after this political show is completed November 9, we can take this enthusiasm for
the process
and maybe turn it toward USSailing or World Sailing Federation (or whatever they call it now)...
Just adding my perspective from over the pond and close to the russian border (where their most sensitive military area )
Our national media is demonizing Trump while praising Clinton. Most friends and family of mine seem to accept the media picture as truth.
Personally I find both candidates untrustable to the extreme based on their verified historical actions.
I think I just observed some flying bacon outside my office window - becouse I actually agree with Todd. Seen from my office chair, the US election for president in 2016 looks like an choice of the
lesser evil
.
Whomever the next US President might be - it will no doubt continue to be interesting times.
Well, don't discount all the conspiracy theories which also abound on social media. I think one or both candidates will be convicted or go missing, leaving vice-presidential candidates in charge, or executive orders keeping the current president for a 3rd term, Russian president Putin somehow gets elected, blah blah
So many other balls in the pitch as well... Supreme Court appointments, Cabinet ministers, Congressional members, etc.
I would consider myself somewhat
informed
as a voter, but the choices are certainly distasteful at best.
This
ugly
media campaign is nothing new, however. I believe it may reach all the way back to a particularly negative election for Thomas Jefferson in 1800? So we've got quite a history of slinging darts, misleading information, character assassinations, etc.
But it does make for awesome spectating. Too bad these folks determine the future for our country (and possibly beyond that).
You can take solice in the fact that while most governments have issues, the general population worldwide is usually much more amenable.
Oh, and don't forget your
duck and cover
training. A certain radical leader is really trying hard to get a nuke missle working. This person is my real concern, as he appears to have the temprament to actually
push the button
. Sanctions aren't working, so I would guess the politbureau feel there's nothing to lose...
Or almost as bad... they need money badly enough to sell this technology to other folks who have the same idea (maybe not ballistic missile, but nuclear delivery nonetheless)
Not all Donald Trump supporters are white supremacists, but all white supremacists appear to be Donald Trump supporters.
![[Linked Image]](https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/8rvvxysbgg5jqfxi/images/1-32b828dbac.jpg)
Hobie1616
If you are into white supremacy - I suggest travelling to Russia or eastern europe in general. They are good at that kind of mentality.
The dirty sort of posting you just made is part of the issue - it is not under the control of Trump and it really does not describe his politics as I understand them. But it is very useful to mentally try to smear white supremacy on Trump.
Just like the other side is smearing whatever they can on Clinton.
I find that kind of stuff tiresome and targeted at kids who are not educated and critical thinkers. But after cutting away all the dirty fluff there is still more than enough evidence of both candidates not being excatly
the right stuff
to put it mildly.
Rolf, Here's the problem. Not all republicans... even most of them are white nationalists, racists, bigots, anti Semites or in clinton's word
deplorables
... but all of these folks, who call themselves members of these groups are aligned with Trump. It took Trump a week to decline the support of one of the countries high profile politicians, an ex KKK leader. These kind words were not even as subtle as dog whistles. The behavior has caused many prominent members of the party to renounce ever voting for him... much less supporting his agenda, or fitness for office. In a two party system.... they are forced to choose.... and in not choosing risk the fates of what they see as a dangerous outcome and then be forced to shoulder their responsibility or lack there of.
These never trumpers consider that allowing ANY of these
deplorables
a seat at the table or even in the room as unacceptable and counter to their conservative governing agenda and their ability to get 270 electoral votes. 50 years ago, the conservative movement threw out the John Birch Society and the Koch brothers father for their antisemitism. .... they managed to elect Reagan and two Bushes holding to those principles by keeping the deplorable far far away ... Now even the Koch brothers decline to support Trump because the company he keeps is unacceptable.
So, the old saying.... sleep with dogs... don't be surprised by waking up with fleas is advice they are taking to heart.
Perhaps in your parliamentary system, the option of a voting for a minority party and hoping for a coalition government is a choice... but not in the States.
So? That changes nothing regarding my argument that smearing is just that. Smearing.
Calling half the population
deplorables
is not exactly policy. And Trump and the trumpists are not any better as far as I can see.
Focus on policy, what the candidates and partys say they will do, and later what they really did. Not the dirtslinging and PsyOps which is what you and Mike is bringing to the discussion now.
Regarding policy - I dont like what Hillary wants to do with the US or foreign policy, and I dont like what Trump wants to do either. 🙂
We have saying... people = policy....ergo... the flee problem.
But Got it, you hear this as smears given your filters. ... If you want policy here... you have to go read it...on the clinton web site.... much quicker read at the trump site. It seems most people are bored with policy... don't care, don't think the congress will do a dam thing about any policy anyway... so, just like the last 6 years... or just vote their tribe.
So... what should the US foreign policy be from a euro view point.? Should we copy the Brits? What should be our principle... and where would you put that principle into play?
Okay.
Trump wants to know why we can't use the nukes we've got.
Throw out every immigrant, legal or illegal, that's ever come to the US.
Bar any Muslim from entering the country. Period.
All Mexicans are thieves and rapists.
Deny the vote to minorities.
Your thoughts?
Mike
sounds like a russian ultra-nationalist from the 90s to me. Ref. what I said initially about both candidates..
Mark,
I think the US needs to focus on national debt, budget deficits, internal issues /and/ foreign policy. Discussing foreign policy as an isolated case is not really relevant in my opinion.
[video]
RIP, Richard...
Mike
Here's another one, complete with a room full of brainwashed minions. Simply brilliant...
Mike
BTW, why can't I get these to show up as boxes you can view on this site anymore?
I think you have to change the hyperlink... the video insert thingy on this site doesn't understand the
youtu.be
thing. I think there is a way to switch to the http:\\youtube.com which will work with that video button
I would agree with your thoughts Rolf, as would most of the citizenry here in USA. But I would counter that actually making progress in any of those areas is much more difficult than you would imagine.
I read an article (posted earlier) about debt:GDP ratios by country and it would appear in my view that most developed countries carry ratios of 75% or higher (debt to economic ability), which ironically appears to be about the same debt:equity that banks require for personal loans.
I think the government being debt free might inadvertantly cripple the financial services sector of the global economy?
The media is corporate controlled, and there is no mandate directing the media to be truthful. They can legally make up their stories from fiction.
Voting in the usa is not transparent. You can't track your vote.
The federal reserve is a corporate privately owned bank that prints money without backing it up, then charges the USA interest on all the money that they print. Also the current fractional reserve system allows banks to monetize debt.
This presidential election has 5 candidates. We vote by mail at our house, and i saw the ballots. The idea that we have to vote for 1 of 2 candidates for presi of the stesi is a fallacy.
I agree with some of your points.
Yes, the media is controlled by corporate interests. Since the suspension of both the Fairness Doctrine as well as the Equal Time Act, there is no rule requiring the media to present all aspects of an issue or political candidate equally. I believe today's media may be considered more
info-tainment
than straight fact. I'm no Edward R. Murrow but it does sometimes shock me what the media presents as 'fact'.
Voting in the USA is somewhat transparent. While you may not be able to track your individual vote (the ballot does not contain your name), in our state votes are tracked with paper backup as well as computer tabulation. Records are kept of who voted (but not what their vote was) and if the number of people who voted does NOT equal the number of ballots, there is a full investigation.
So I can track whether my vote was tabulated, but no one but me will know how I cast my vote.
And yes, you are correct in there are more than 2 presidential candidates listed on the ballot. I think it's fair to say that there are only two candidates with a realistic shot at gathering enough votes/delegates to secure the majority win...As a
winner take all
country, rather than a more parlimentary system, we tend to ignore those candidates with no statistical chance of advancing.
well....we cook things down to their essence.
The US is the lone superpower spending an enormous amount more money on defense then even aggregates of countries.... I know the US stance will have profound influence on your part of the world...
so,
are you more of an isolationist.... the US Military is a huge deterrent just by sitting in the US ports and the US won't inject military power around the world. see old school republicans ... Lingburgh...and now Gary Johnson.
are you a classic Republican....The US role REMAINS fighting the godless communists... now autocrats of russia and china See Bob Dole. Richard Nixon. Reagan
Are you a anticomunist Democrat... aka Kennedy and Johnson. Carter... containment with out reach to the communists.
Are you a realist Republican ... the US role is leadership and maintaining the status quo... so Bush I kicked Iraq out of Kuwait... but refused to upset the world order and take over Iraq.
Are you supporting Obama's foreign policy which is much like Bush I and Clinton I and II... Realist democrat Which is to build international institutions, maintain world order and support human rights where you can with military power with minimal footprints. eg. Kuwait, Bosnia/Serbia, Lybia?
Are you for the totally novel approach of trump who proposes... with draw from ensuring nuclear non proliferation.... withdraw from Nato and asian treaties which cost us too much money and tie our hands in knots from taking what we want... and replace it with belicose noise and large increases in defense spending so that we can act about how tough and kick butt the US will be in the future.
What works for northern Europe... if you can't pick from one of these traditions?
All the news...
“Neo-Nazi leader Andrew Anglin plans to muster thousands of poll watchers across all 50 states. His partners at the alt-right website ‘the Right Stuff’ are touting plans to set up hidden cameras at polling places in Philadelphia and hand out liquor and marijuana in the city’s ‘ghetto’ on Election Day to induce residents to stay home.
In a related story, Democrats plan to hand out moonshine and meth in rural areas to induce residents to stay home.
Word.
Mark
it does not matter really.
Why not?
Becouse if the USA find it in US interest - the US will act on national interests no matter what I think or what president is elected in a few days <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
The rest of your question is really about moral and good vs evil. That is really not
essencial
.
Without a sound economy and a unified populace to build on - the toolbox for implementing foreign policy becomes very restricted. Lack of finances and a populace with high level of internal tension was what brought the USSR down.
USA is built on some clear principles (known as what forms policy) and needs, and have a strong history. I dont find much of those principles and history represented by the two candidates. Even though one of them do claim to represent just this: MAGA etc. while the other claim to be the candidate for a growing economy (but no mention about budget deficits)..
Be assured that I have the same questions on our own government - and I dont find much I can respect there either.
Of much more interest is the original topic Todd brought up. What role does the media have in the election and in forming policy. Ie. are they reporting fact and bringing valuable analysis/comments/perspectives to the election, or even in forming policy?
I know what I think - and no surprise that I think media is guilty of dumbing down and distorting facts more than serving their independent og very important role. And I find the same viewpoints and angles on matters in our national media.
Pretty interesting?
If you are into white supremacy - I suggest travelling to Russia or eastern europe in general. They are good at that kind of mentality.
The dirty sort of posting you just made is part of the issue - it is not under the control of Trump and it really does not describe his politics as I understand them. But it is very useful to mentally try to smear white supremacy on Trump.
Just like the other side is smearing whatever they can on Clinton.
I find that kind of stuff tiresome and targeted at kids who are not educated and critical thinkers. But after cutting away all the dirty fluff there is still more than enough evidence of both candidates not being excatly
the right stuff
to put it mildly.
Well put... Thank you
Yes the can, but then again, they are opening themselves up to a slander suit.... Understandably they will have to prove
actual malice
, but this could hurt their credibility of a new source...
Look at the case of Brian Williams/NBC and Dan Rather/CBS
Okay.
Trump wants to know why we can't use the nukes we've got.
Throw out every immigrant, legal or illegal, that's ever come to the US.
Bar any Muslim from entering the country. Period.
All Mexicans are thieves and rapists.
Deny the vote to minorities.
Your thoughts?
Trump is an idiot that talks a lot, but Clinton, now she is a gal of action.. for instance:
1. Gave Russia a reset button which reset cold war
2. Lack of a coherent plan to address the Arab Spring
3. Deteriorating relations with Israel
4. Assessment of Bashar al-Assad (whom she labeled a “reformer”)
5. Cluelessness that withdrawal of U.S. forces in Iraq would give the radicals a foothold
6. Benghazi scandal
7. Lack of bringing to justice the jihadists who killed our 4 Americans
8. Victory lap on Osama bin Laden giving a false impression of al-Qaeda’s decimation
9. Blindsiding the Israeli prime minister with a public declaration of U.S. policy on “1967 borders”
10. Backing Hugo Chavez’s candidate in Honduras rather that the middle and business classes’ choice (who was also pro-American)
11. Relaxation of Cuban sanctions followed by Alan Gross’s imprisonment
12. Surprising Poland and the Czech Republic by pulling out anti-missile sites
13. Embracing Hosni Mubarak (calling him a family friend) just when pressure was needed to prevent what ultimately became his overthrow
14. The lack of a cogent approach to the Middle East
15. Failing to take decisive action in Syria before jihadists poured into the country
16. The decision to overthrow President Gaddafi in Libya
17. Downplaying human rights, especially with China
18. Failing to robustly support the Green Revolution
19. Engagement of Iran and foot-dragging on sanctions, allowing Iran to reach the cusp of a nuclear weapons capability
20. Announced “pivot” to Asia without carrying through
21. Erased email server
22. Clinton cash
23. Maintaining the status quo with Pakistan
24. Lied to FBI and to Congress
25. Creator of ISIS by pulling out of Iraq too quickly despite military recommendation not to
26. Called Trump Supporters “Basket of Deplorables”
Trump is an idiot that talks a lot, but Clinton, now she is a gal of action.. for instance:
1. Gave Russia a reset button which reset cold war
2. Lack of a coherent plan to...
Good work femalegenitalia-n-Paste, I'll see your Clinton bashing and raise you a Newsweek Magazine cover.
Why Russians Are Backing Trump
Inside Putin's efforts to dissolve NATO
Issue hits newsstands tomorrow.
Guess What, Iowa Cop Killer Was ‘Troubled Loner.’ There’s A Lot Of Those!
Greene was ejected from a high school football game after taunting black audience members and waving a Confederate flag at them because they hadn’t stood for the National Anthem.
Todd? Chumley? Sparky?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: WHY HE FEARS A HILLARY CLINTON WHITE HOUSE
There are plenty of signs that Moscow isn’t pleased with the prospect of a Clinton presidency. In recent months, Russia made a series of bold moves that harked back to the 1980s, offering tours of Cold War bomb shelters, staging intercontinental ballistic missile tests on state television and announcing war rations in case of a conflict with the U.S.
Russia’s consternation also stems from the fact the U.S. has already started its energy war. As of January, America began exporting crude oil for the first time in four decades. This March, it also began exporting more liquefied natural gas than it was importing for the first time since Dwight Eisenhower was president...
Russia depends on its revenue from oil and gas for more than half of its federal budget, according to its Ministry of Finance. That, combined with weak energy prices in recent years and Russia being stuck in its longest recession in two decades, leaves the country and Putin in a very precarious position. Much of its petroleum export revenue comes from countries in the European Union, many of which are U.S. allies. Mindful of this, Clinton told Deutsche Bank in October 2014, “I want to export gas, especially to our friends in order to undercut, in Europe’s case, the pressure from Russia.”
Eroding Russia’s energy dominance is a much shrewder way to handle it than direct conflict or even cyberwarfare, says retired Air Force General Michael Hayden, former head of both the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency under George W. Bush.
WHY VLADIMIR PUTIN’S RUSSIA IS BACKING DONALD TRUMP
While American intelligence officers have privately briefed Trump about Russia’s attempts to influence the U.S. election, he has publicly dismissed that information as unreliable, instead saying this hacking of incredible sophistication and technical complexity could have been done by some 400-pound “guy sitting on their bed” or even a child.
Officials from two European countries tell Newsweek that Trump’s comments about Russia’s hacking have alarmed several NATO partners because it suggests he either does not believe the information he receives in intelligence briefings, does not pay attention to it, does not understand it or is misleading the American public for unknown reasons.
Trump’s behavior, however, has at times concerned the Russians, leading them to revise their hacking and disinformation strategy. For example, when Trump launched into an inexplicable attack on the parents of a Muslim-American soldier who died in combat, the Kremlin assumed the Republican nominee was showing himself psychologically unfit to be president and would be forced by his party to withdraw from the race.
Trump and his campaign have also spread propaganda created as part of the Kremlin's effort, relying on bogus information generated through traditional Russian disinformation techniques. In one instance, a manipulated document was put out onto the internet anonymously by propagandists working with Russia; within hours, Trump was reciting that false information at a campaign rally.
The words that so shocked the British were “our country has no idea,” and “I doubt it.” All of the NATO allies are sure Russia is behind the hacking. All of America’s intelligence agencies are, too. The foreign intelligence services had been sharing what they knew about this with the Americans, and Trump had been told about it. But he blithely dismissed the conclusion of not only the United States but its allies as well, based on absolutely nothing.
And so, for perhaps the first time since World War II, countries in Western Europe fear that the American election, should Trump win, could trigger events that imperil their national security and do potentially irreparable harm to the alliances that have kept the continent safe for decades.
There's a lot more Schwartz. Read it over and provide us your thoughts.
Do you know these guys Todd? It's okay Todd, we understand.
This is the alt-right.
Until recently, not many Americans knew this term, a catchall for a loose confederation of far-right locos so deviant that a few years ago they were in danger of extinction. Then they found Trump. Or Trump found them. Now, they are stationed along his parapets in a union that represents the biggest uptick of white power activity in American politics since the Ku Klux Klan’s invisible empire in the 1920s. Neo-Nazis do door-knocks for Trump and scream “Sieg Heil” outside his rallies. And Trump has gone along for the ride, retweeting alt-right propaganda and hiring Stephen Bannon, whose Breitbart News Network has become the most significant transmitter of the movement’s ideas to a mass audience. Thanks to Trump, ethno-nationalism is poised to be a force in American politics for the first time in decades.
My Journey to the Center of the Alt-Right