I understand suffering until the wind picks up. I was out in the bay. It was windy. The wind suddenly quit. I felt stranded--for 3 hours. Then low and behold black clouds came with wind and I was able to get back to the ramp.
Although this is technical thread, I'm not sure I understand why, but when it's windy there's hardly any sailboats out! Even on the dive boat in FL over Christmas, 4ft swells, 20 knot wind and not a sailboat in sight around Hillsboro Inlet. Why have a sailboat if your not going out when its windy?
Why have a sailboat if your not going out when its windy?
everyone has a different "perfect condition"
I don't care for sailing my cat in any swells at all, and above 20 isn't really fun for me. It's wet, and wild, slip-and-capsize.
I admit, it's a rush and good workout and I always feel "i survived" after sailing in 20, or 30 knot winds, but i don't care for it nor need it.
I am spoiled (sail a lot) and prefer 10 - 15 where everything isn't "do or die",
I did JUST buy a new cat with a 31' mast that has a reefing system (and matching sail)
....that might change everything... 🙂
Edited by MN3 on Feb 12, 2015 - 04:59 PM.
I did JUST buy a new cat with a 31' mast that has a reefing system (and matching sail)
....that might change everything... 🙂
If it's the 10' beam Mystere, they are some sweet boats, especially when the water gets rough. I found that boat to be a be-itch to right. Even with the large bag, I needed help. The wide beam means you can't use the traveler cleat casting as a foot brace, it's easy to go sliding down the tramp if the hull comes way up.
The hardest thing after sailing it was to jump back on a 17' boat, it seemed like you were stuck in a closet, the real estate, or lack of it, on the tramp is very noticeable.
everyone has a different "perfect condition
There's a lot of sailboats in South Florida, not just cats, but, Hunters, Pearsons, Cals etc, that during the Holiday one would think there would have been at least 1 sailboat in the ocean when the wind was 15-20. I believe the sport is limited to racing mostly as even around here, there are not many sailboats in the water, other than specific classes during races. For those who don't race, my question remains, not to be answered per se, but why have a sailboat if you don't use it when the winds are favorable to enjoy sailing? (Excluding the use of a sailboat as a liveaboard, that hardly moves) I agree that 10-18 is probably ideal for most small craft. The Laser actually slows down beyond 20 as it becomes over powered. 15 is ideal.
What, burning incense as a way to chart wind direction?--- you've got to be kidding... 😆
Here in Chile I haven't seen that sailors prefer to sail in winds below 15-20, they'll be sailing under these conditions. What I've seen, though, is that 20 years ago dinghy and cat sailing was maybe 90% recreational and 10% racing and today it's the opposite. Sailing was more popular and there were more sails in the water on non-regatta days or on lakes or beaches where regattas are not common. There were more junky boats with dirty sails, too. Today you see lots of F18 and shiny lasers in the few specialized lakes or beaches and that's it.
Bottom line:
Sailing has become increasingly elitist. Today you can choose basically between three options:
- Tech racing boats, very expensive, not recreational (made for the pro and rich)
- Recreational and expensive boats like the getaway (made for the non pro and rich)
- Middle class decent enough boats rescued from the 80s or 90s, for the true recreational sailors that still survive...
If it's the 10' beam Mystere,
No, it's a xl 8'6"
Better start eating triple cheeseburger, with double fries & 8 beers...everyday!
Or find a beefy crew, or two, or a bunch of fun girls.:lol:
I know you have beaucoup experience, & went into this with eyes open, but I found it to be a sneaky beast.
It's not a fault of the boat, it was never envisioned to be solo sailed. In a good breeze, with all senses on high alert, it's hard to beat. I never tipped it on a windy day.
It was those lazy days, when I was just drifting along, & perhaps crossed the tramp to change something. A
sudden puff, of only a few extra mph & you & you were swimming.
My 10' beam, with wings is 13.5' wide.
The photo is trapped off the wing, in only 7mph, & I can just barely hold it down. I realize I'm not piked out efficiently, but my feet are nearly 7' from the centre. I think the 8' beam will require even more finesse.
It helmed beautifully, two fingers on the stik, the rudders are far nicer than my 5.7.
Enjoy, & post some photos of that beast double trapped, with GPS speed.
Damon kindly posted the official manual for the boat, somewhere here, it was sent to me by Kasper, I can email it to you if you want, though there is probably nothing you don't already know..
Edited by Edchris177 on Feb 14, 2015 - 06:33 PM.
Edited by MN3 on Feb 16, 2015 - 07:50 AM.
Not sure how the Mystere's hull is constructed, but if it's anything like most other symmetrical hulled boats, I would lose those single trailer rollers in a heart beat - especially the front ones. You sure don't want to punch one up through the bottom of the boat.
sm
I would lose those single trailer rollers in a heart beat - especially the front ones.
+1
All it takes is someone to hop up on the hull while trailed, to retrieve a hat, Frisbee etc. Makes cradles out of a piece of 12" green sewer pipe, it cuts easy with a re-cip saw. Even lifting the hull & slipping a 12" piece of plywood between hull & roller will give piece of mind.
Having gone over to the dark side you are now spoiled for life, "WINGS".
Backrest for lazy days, never eating spray in the face, hammock for chicks & kids. The girls who want to go on YOUR boat just tripled!
I secure a paddle under each wing tramp, out of the way & out of the sun.
Those look like the factory wings, an expensive option, just respect the weight limit on them. I've read posts re dragging them while flying a hull. The geometry on mine were such that if you ever dragged a wing, you were already swimming.
The only downside I find is they sometimes hang up a sheet when gybing the spin, & if you flip, the extra 15lb on the upper hull is also over-centred, making righting more difficult. The tapered mast does not give much flotation at the top. With the added turtling moment of the wings, you may decide a small mast float is a good idea.
On the other hand, the wing in the water creates a lot of drag, helping to right, & also pretty much stopping drift once the mast is into the wind.
I would remove all beam bolts & Teff-Gel them in your climate. The only thing I had break was those delrin fittings that connect the tie bar to the tillers. My boat was 2001, not sure if they're the same as your 5.5. Yves in Montreal has them, or if you can make them from an old seized spreader arm from a Nacra, it's the perfect diametre. I took photos while making them, but haven't put up an album yet. They are not quite a simple as two holes drilled in a piece of plastic.
Make an album, & show that beast off.
Edited by Edchris177 on Feb 16, 2015 - 02:17 PM.
I would lose those single trailer rollers in a heart beat - especially the front ones.
+1
been parking my mystere 5.5 like this for 8 years in this spot.
Othere mystere's for a decade or two.
Those look like the factory wings,
they are not - the entire boat was tore down and re-built. about 500 man hours at a local sailing shop by an experienced boat welder/mystere owner
Edited by MN3 on Feb 16, 2015 - 04:00 PM.
Looks like you got fantastic build, especially since you can sail it all year.
I endorsed Dogboys recommendation because I saw exactly that, at a sailing venue on Lake Ontario last summer.
In a rush to secure the boat from a fast approaching storm a chap hopped up onto the hull to grab a line...the soft "crunch" was not nearly as loud as the string of expletives that followed.
YMMV, but I would hate to see it happen to anyone's new toy.
PS I have not yet heard back from Yves re your parts...I'll resend the photo.
Edchris177 wrote: Looks like you got fantastic build
thanks, he did an amazing job.
I love all the custom welding he did
In a rush to secure the boat from a fast approaching storm a chap hopped up onto the hull to grab a line...the soft "crunch" was not nearly as loud as the string of expletives that followed.
what kinda boat?
I have not yet heard back from Yves re your parts...I'll resend the photo.
I am not holding my breath - but thanks
If the bottoms of the hulls are solid laminate, it may be OK for a while, but even the Hobie 17's and 18's will fail if they're overloaded on a single roller for a long period of time. More modern boats have cored hulls throughout and are therefore even less tolerant of high compressive point loads. If you look at the contact point between the single roller and the hull, you will see that it is an incredibly small area where the load is distributed across (likely on the order of 1 square inch or less). It's the nature of the beast when you have two curved surfaces in contact with each other. Factor in the weight of the boat, a couple hundred pounds from one or two people sitting on the boat in the wrong spot, or some heavy snow load, and it doesn't take much to punch the roller thru the hull. Single rollers on round hulls = not worth the risk IMO.
sm
Dogboy wrote: If the bottoms of the hulls are solid laminate, it may be OK for a while, but even the Hobie 17's and 18's will fail if they're overloaded on a single roller for a long period of time.
I agree in general, just wanted to point out (for future newbies reading old threads) that the Hobie 17 is MUCH more lightly built than the H18 and should definitely have double rollers or cradles if possible. Never seen a problem on the "built like a tank" H18 but I do have double rollers rear and cradles out front on my trailer anyway. I had standard single rollers on my 1981 Hobie and even at my size never had the first problem with the hulls YMMV.
Here's what a little snow weight can do to a Hobie 17
i will try not to be stubborn and hard headed (this isn't so easy for me) and i will look more into this - thanks
Edited by MN3 on Feb 17, 2015 - 01:32 PM.
fyi here is what the inside of that part of a mystere 6.0 looks like
think i'll look into double rollers 🙂
Edited by MN3 on Feb 17, 2015 - 01:31 PM.
What about Hobie 16s? I've got a 81' Hobie 16 on single rollers, front and back... Something to be concerned about or are they plenty tough enough?
New thread title: "16-18' Beachcats, lines, sheets, trailering, welding and hull bottom preservation" hahaha.
I've had several old Hobie 16's that have sat for decades on trailers with single rollers with no obvious damage or I'll effects. On rounded bottom hull designs the weight needs to be distributed on the trailer. I've also noted that some people use ratchet straps over the tops of their hulls and crank them down super super tight for trailering and don't loosen them for storage. That will crush the rollers into the bottoms and create soft spots on decks on any fiberglass boat I'd imagine.
$195 for 2 units
+ 40shipping
http://www.icarussportsusa.com/parts-and-accessories/double-rollers/
MN3 wrote: i will try not to be stubborn and hard headed (this isn't so easy for me) and i will look more into this - thanksEdited by MN3 on Feb 17, 2015 - 01:32 PM.
MN3 wrote:
$195 for 2 units
+ 40shippinghttp://www.icarussportsusa.com/parts-and-accessories/double-rollers/
Nice find, I didn't know those were commercially available. Looks like something that should be advertised on a website completely devoted to the boats these are designed for. 😀
My single roller on each side are slightly v-formed. Not sure if the double straight dia. rollers will offer much more weight distribution. I scoured construction site and found a section of water pipe but it was only 8". Not sure 8 will do it for cradle, probably need the 10" as suggested on the web. Or flip the hull and make a FB cradle using the hull as a form. More work, less play.
New thread title: "16-18' Beachcats, lines, sheets, trailering, welding and hull bottom preservation" hahaha.
I tried to segment, but oh well, it's only a H18 with so few things to talk about. 😆
you should talk with your sales team 😛
Looks like something that should be advertised on a website completely devoted to the boats these are designed for.
I am going to talk with my welder and see if we can fabricate for less
anyone interested in a set if we can?
Edited by MN3 on Feb 18, 2015 - 01:21 PM.
goodsailing wrote:
New thread title: "16-18' Beachcats, lines, sheets, trailering, welding and hull bottom preservation" hahaha.
I tried to segment, but oh well, it's only a H18 with so few things to talk about. 😆
I (personally) like when threads meander around... that's how conversations are naturally
Does little though when the thread subject hits google and searchers for a particular topic have to pick through info to learn what they searched for. That said, and while we're on the subject of refurbing an H18 how about sailing one. Do you carry a large flat head screw driver with you to retract the rudders when on the boat. I can't see how to release the catch otherwise? Sure want to miss striking ground.
goodsailing wrote: Do you carry a large flat head screw driver with you to retract the rudders when on the boat. I can't see how to release the catch otherwise? Sure want to miss striking ground.
I'm assuming your 1978 H18 has the original metal-cam rudder casting? They changed in 1987 to a replaceable plastic cam system.
The rudders are supposed to be able to kick up, popping the rudder cam up, the resistance is supplied by a spring in the lower casting pressing upwards on the bottom of the cam. The spring tension is what determines how much pressure is required for the rudders to kick up.
If your trailer keeps the boat high enough that you can put the rudders locked down into sailing position, you can pull back on the end of the rudders to see if the cam will release. Don't break off a rudder by pulling with all of your might, pulling on the end of the blade should pop-up the rudders fairly easily. (in a fully working system)
Now the bad news is that the original rudder casting system was replaced because as it aged the metal cams (which can't be replaced) got deformed and at some point they just won't kick up at all. Even if you are coming back in through the surf towards the beach at high speed standing up on the tramp pulling on the rudder tiller arm as hard as you can. (yes, I know this for sure)
Your first step should be to take the lower casting off the boat, remove the plastic screw and spring, clean them and lube the spring and threads and reassemble. Then test operation. There is a good likelihood you won't be able to remove the plastic screw without destroying it. I had one once that was so stuck and boogered up I layed the casting in the driveway and used a torch to burn away the plastic. Then needed to buy a 3/4 10 tap to clean the threads out.
The replaceable parts in your casting look like this.
If your rudder system won't kick up after maintenance, then the only options are to sail it as a fixed rudder boat (don't hit anything) or spring for the upgrade kit.
http://www.murrays.com/50-60331010.html
http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=10836
I can't see how to release the catch otherwise?
Rudder locking cams? I use my main sheet. Lift up the tiller crossbar throw a loop of slack over the cam and seat the line into it, pull forward and up hard and fast, sometimes I have to stand up a little to get the right angle.
or spring for the upgrade kit
There's no cam, just aluminum latch and spring. I'll lube it to get it to work including the pull up method mention by fxloop. Otherwise at $700 upgrade kit, I'll carry the old flat head screw driver to release the latch. Cost: $0
The fixed down position is quite solid with no play.
Edited by goodsailing on Feb 18, 2015 - 03:20 PM.
Do you carry a large flat head screw driver with you to retract the rudders when on the
I carry a small and light as possible tool kit, ever since my h18 stay pin broke on me out in the gulf of mexico (with an off shore wind). luckily another cat sailor saw me and a group helped me get onshore, and jerry-rigged with a g-cat stay pin
i always carry (unless reducing weight in a race):
water, sunscreen, anchor, paddle, righting bag
knife in pdf (and 20' thin vectran, & small multi-tool)
Toolkit - flat and philips, a few extra soft and hard shackles, few extra common screws, ringdings, drainplugs, cotter pins and 2part pool epoxy for underwater/on the fly repairs, also extra line
and a cell phone in a otter box, in a dry box
This time of year i also carry about 2-3 extra sets of clothing (top and bottom) incase i go swimming (or others)
They changed in 1987 to a replaceable plastic cam system.
I had this hobie multi tool that had a hook on it.
if you drilled a little hole in the center of the plastic cam (nearest the hook in the picture) you could use this tool to pop it back up - when i got good at it, i could do it on the fly if the cam ever got locked down by accident while launching or other
http://slhobie.com.au/hobiecats/tools-accessories/233-sailors-all-purpose-tool