So if you build this ultra stiff all carbon uberboat, how much faster will it be? It would still have a similar water line and weigh as much as the old T 4.9.
There are ways to deal with this issue in a positive fashion, rather than letting it hang over the class' head like some storm cloud. Personally, I like the idea of a
prototype
rating: one off boats that are eligible for participation but not necessarily scored in official standings. You could implement that along with a GTO rule to ensure that the entire fleet does not become obsolete overnight.
I bid an US$ 100.000 class killer.
Who's dares raising
the stakes
even higher ?
Don't be shy, get your 15 minutes of attention now !
Wouter
I suggest we do it all in forged magnesium, hull, mast, the lot.
Imagine the bond fire we could do once this thing lose the first race its in <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
How do you measure stiffness? In one plane or many? Is absolute stiffness even desirable, or is some flexibility a good thing?
Like weight, I suspect it's importance is overstated.
And then a 15yr. old and a 17yr. old will still kick your butt on a
heavy
Viper...
Yeah, let's spend more money! That'll fix it! Always does, just ask BP how that's working for them in the Gulf.
That's my point. <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" /> Frankly, I think it's more likely someone will come out with a heavy
cheap
F16. Maybe rotomolded?
It'd be 500lbs, and stiff as a over cooked noodle.
Hey Honey, walk out on that forward tramp and fix that spinnaker for me, wouldja? Nice!
I say, maybe, maybe not....
I would have thought someone would have done that already, but maybe I'm mistaken.
Have you guys seen the debate about the bannana boards in the A-class?
A completely new innovation and the jury hasn't reached a verdict, yet!
So, in conclusion to this discussion, it may or may not make s difference.
Sometimes, your better off spending some of that extra money on coaching.
Mike
<img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" /> So which boat do you sail the most? The Prindle or the Blade?
Well an hour ago I was out on the H14 to meet up with a
new guy
who also has a H14 out on Lake Jackson, I'm going to try to get him out on the Prindle trap next time it's blowing. I usually sail the Prindle because it's all set up on the beach, ready to go, jib rolled on the headstay, all I have to do is raise up the main and I'm off.
The Blade lives tied to the trailer, mast down, under a cover. I am going to rig it up today and try to get some practice in tomorrow and Friday, if there is any wind, it's very light today.
You *NEED* a new F16 so that you can keep the Blade mast up on the beach and the NEW F16 on the trailer (under the cover) and ready to go racing!
Yes, I agree, now...you tell my wife!
What's the point of having the mast down? Here on our beach we have the boats all the season outside mast up, in every weather, no shelter. We do this with all sort of boat, my Javelin, some A-cats, Darts, Hobies, Ts. Boats are moored to the ground.
Cheers,
Klaus
That's fine if your racing is always from the same beach, the beach has space for mast up storage and the storage is available for a reasonable cost.
Agreed, but I was wondering why having the Prindle and not the Blade on the beach.
I keep my
racing boat
in pristine condition, that is, no Florida Sunlight, no bugs, no dirt, and I spend at least 3 hours washing and waxing it before I take it to any regatta. When I arrive at the regatta, I wash it again. Why? Because a bug might have splat itself on the bow. Call me Anal, I know I am when it comes to clean racing boats.
The Prindle is my back yard beach beater that is rougher than...well...it's rough, so no amount of Florida Sun can do any more damage to it. It's a great beater for when it's blowing 20 and I don't mind breaking stuff. The Blade however, breaking stuff on that boat gets expensive.
I just spent $450 for 1 new dagger board. The Prindle doesn't even have daggerboards, which is another reason I love it! The Blade is a Porche, the Prindle is a Mack Truck. Each has it's purpose and each is very good at what it was designed for.
If it makes you feel any better, I did rig up the Blade today and sailed it for an hour, 5 sets, douses, 20 gybes, 30 tacks, but the wind was light and by the time I got out it was after 5pm. Tomorrow I'll be out there early, all day, and on Friday I'm going to wash and wax it...again, then load it up for the trip to Cocoa early on Saturday. Why not Friday night? Because there are too many Love Bugs out on Friday afternoon, Saturday at 7am there won't be as many bugs to go splat on my clean racing boat so it will be easier to clean when I get there.
Hey, who's watching the Celtic-Magic series?? I am tonight.
<**** boat making a killing !
The fact that these 20's are also longer, wider, taller and have 15 sq. mtr. more sail area didn't seem to help much either !
Wouter
Could it also be the
nut on the tiller
doing the work.
nut on the tiller
doing the work.
Of course, that is why all this
US$40K class killer
nonsense is such BS.
In the overall scheme of things, material choice is an almost negligliable factor. It comes well behind other factors like sailor skill, the boxrule limits, sailcut, luck, etc.
That is the core argument of these posts.
I would have loved to the faces of those crews laying down 35k and for that
all-carbon miracle
and then finding themselves trailing behind a much smaller plain glass/alu cat costing less then half their purchase cost. Can't say that they weren't warned, we've seen this happen several times before with the M20's and F18's.
Wouter
Wout, just so you know, I'm on your side in this thing.
haven't we beaten this dead horse enough? just bury it please..
Is it truly dead? I'd be very happy to learn that is the case, but it keeps resurrecting itself.
Perhaps when it stops attracting responses...
Decomposition is a long, drawn out process. First, flies & vultures. Then maggots. Later worms. I think we have seen them all just with other identities.
Come on... The reason the issue is not dead (great graphic Kris) is that you have not convinced the general cat racing public that you are right and this weight thing is a non issue!
Your recent problem is that a very very good Hobie 16 RACER (meaning, a team that races nationally at 280 to 310... eg. a perfect F16 candidate) looks at the two spin classes and has to choose between the F18 scene and the F16 scene. Obviously, he considered all the factors but he opted for the F18.
The good news is that he told you of his concern about the potential for an equipment edge which could be easily purchased by some. That's not a game he will play.
The largest market of racers is the Hobie 16 class. The F16 Class should be very concerned when top sailors in such a class opt out of the F16 over a rule. They race a SMOD and the vast majority truly believe that their boat's value is best preserved with a very tightly regulated class. You can argue the point all you want. The fact of life is that this portion of the cat racing public will consider the issue, especially when the top sailors make their choice. Good Luck declaring it a dead issue.
Bottom line.. the horse will not die for those consumers and it factors into their decision if the they want to move up to a spin boat class.
Your move!
Mark, the -only- reason I bought into the F16 class was the flexability to race Uni or Sloop. If that option did not exist, ie. F18, I would have bought a used A cat instead. Not everyone has reliable crew, and not everyone wants to race the F18. The F16 class offers that flexability and really isn't concerned with grabbing fully crewed teams who are F18 compatible, size wise. If a big crew comes out of the H16 class looking for a spin boat, the F18 is the way to go. If instead it's a smaller pair, or parent/child, and they occaisionally want to race even when their crew is not available, the F16 is the only choice.
It really has nothing to do with worrying about some Racer X boat coming along and undercutting the class.
racing boat
in pristine condition, that is, no Florida Sunlight, no bugs, no dirt, and I spend at least 3 hours washing and waxing it before I take it to any regatta. When I arrive at the regatta, I wash it again. Why? Because a bug might have splat itself on the bow. Call me Anal, I know I am when it comes to clean racing boats.
The Prindle is my back yard beach beater that is rougher than...well...it's rough, so no amount of Florida Sun can do any more damage to it. It's a great beater for when it's blowing 20 and I don't mind breaking stuff. The Blade however, breaking stuff on that boat gets expensive.
I just spent $450 for 1 new dagger board. The Prindle doesn't even have daggerboards, which is another reason I love it! The Blade is a Porche, the Prindle is a Mack Truck. Each has it's purpose and each is very good at what it was designed for.
If it makes you feel any better, I did rig up the Blade today and sailed it for an hour, 5 sets, douses, 20 gybes, 30 tacks, but the wind was light and by the time I got out it was after 5pm. Tomorrow I'll be out there early, all day, and on Friday I'm going to wash and wax it...again, then load it up for the trip to Cocoa early on Saturday. Why not Friday night? Because there are too many Love Bugs out on Friday afternoon, Saturday at 7am there won't be as many bugs to go splat on my clean racing boat so it will be easier to clean when I get there.
Hey, who's watching the Celtic-Magic series?? I am tonight.
Hi Timbo,
I must admit that I feel a bit dirty, if I read your post. I wax my boat one or two times per year. The only sweet water she sees is if it rains and at the end of last season I put the still wet sails with the tied battens in the bag and forgot it over the winter... we Europeans are a bit filthy <img src="<>/blush.gif" alt="blush" title="blush" height="15" width="15" />
How does your wife deal with your passion for shine hulls?
Cheers,
Klaus
I make her take a bath before she comes to bed...then I 'wax her bottom' until it's as shiney and smooth as my boat!
She is a bit jelous of my love for my boat I think. She tried to hit it when it was in the driveway once! She swore she didn't see it but how can you miss seeing a bright white boat on a trailer?? I know it was intentional. Luckily I saw her aiming at it and yelled so she stopped.
When she's really mad at me, she'll threaten to come to a regatta and ruin my fun!
Depends where you are. The H16 was the youth boat for a while in Europe (with a spi) but this is no longer the case. there is no adult H16 regata that I know of. I can't recall the last time I saw a H16 sailing in a regatta. Most H16 sailors are, at this point, recreational sailors.
The H16 is a fun but completely obsolete boat, even more so without a spi. Heck, the BHCCA (British Hobie Cat Class Association) is the RYA group training the top young cat teams in the UK. The youngest are training on Hobie Dragoon, the older are on not on hobies at all: they sail Spitfires. They do participate in the European H16 championships, but this is not their boat of choice. Their main goal is to get beefy enough to get on a F18.
Same in France, where the youth boat is the SL16, and no young racer will even consider buying a H16.
The US is a special case, with the huge fleets of obsolete H16 without spi. If you get your head out of your country you will see that the goal of the Viper is to provide an alternative to the F18 for the lighter crews who can't switch to the F18 and be competitive there. The H16 is never ever in the picture.