Around French Island Cat Challenge

Hi Tim

I love reading about the giant killing ways of the Mozzies.

The attitude and enthusiasm of the Mozzies with kites is like a breath of fresh air.

I don'y want to take away from Gary's performance, because he obviously sailed his butt off to over come sand bars and a capsize and still place so high.

I have a question.

Isn't the idea of formula racing about diffrent manufactures racing on elapsed time , as apposed to corrected time ?

I look forward to the day when we all meet out on the water.
It will be a blast.

Regards Tony Jenkins.

Hi Tony

That is a very good point.

What we are doing here in open regattas is sailing as Mosquitos with spinnakers on the VYC handicap that's been allocated to us. All of these open events are run on the basis of VYC handicaps. Although Gary got close to Simon McKeon's Taipan at various stages of the race, he was beaten over the line in the end - by quite a large margin.

You are dead right that this is not real F16 racing - which is "first-across-the-line". I guess that kind of racing will really happen between the F16 Taipans, Blades and newer F16 classes as they arrive. Boats like the Mozzie are involved now which helps to get the numbers going (Cobras & Hydras could get involved as well) but ultimately they will be left behind on the water against the optimized F16s.

As well as wanting to see the F16 class get going here in Victoria you have to remember we are also promoting the Mosquito as a class anyway, just because it's a light, well set up cat that can give a very fast ride for very few dollars (so as far as I can see it has a reason to exist).

At the Victorian F16 Challenge at Easter I would expect that the F16 title should be decided on elapsed time (though I could be wrong - can someone confirm?), which means the Mozzies will just have to sail very well

Tim

The basic Mosquito F16 deal was worked out with Steve in South Africa at the time we didn't expect the Aussie branch to launch themself so convincingly.

Not that this posses any problems. We agreed with Steve on the "first in wins basis" as is the idea behind the F16 class and I think the Mozzies when singlehanded come rather close to optimized performance. The basic deal with Steve was and is that in bigger events we'll try to arrange fully optimized F16 charters for the Mosquito crews if they want one. This should even things out. Likely we'll issue extra invitations for the Mosquito champs just as we're planning to do for the regional F16 champs. I think this arrangement went down well in the mosquito camp. I for one would love to see the top mosquito crews compete; now moreso after seeing them do so well with a sub optimized platform. Of course the mosquito as an platform is F16 compliant and therefor can race in standard F16 races.

However a large portion of the F16 class is sailing our boats against the F18 and A-cats and here I see the mosquito's do (very) well. Didn't the singlehanded mozzies end up halve way up the A-cat class fleet (over 10 boats) on elapsed ? And in front of the Catrigged Taipans ?

In this setup a mosquito appears to not underdo to with respect to the others. I seem to remember that the mosquito Texel rating was only a few % slower than the fully Optimized F16's.

And I agree fully with Tony on :

"I love reading about the giant killing ways of the Mozzies. The attitude and enthusiasm of the Mozzies with kites is like a breath of fresh air."

Wouter

Hi Wouter,

"The basic Mosquito F16 deal was worked out with Steve in South Africa at the time we didn't expect the Aussie branch to launch themself so convincingly."

I think this has happened for two reasons, in SA the Mosquito class was facing certain extinction if it didn`t move with the times. We got a couple of boats down to min. weight, the spinnaker was added to the setup & we are experiencing growth again. How many F16 regattas have had 14 boats so far ? Our last club event had 14 spinnaker-rigged mozzies, only 16 months after the first spinnaker was launched.
I think the setup in Auz was similar, a declining fleet meant that they had to do something to attract sailors back to the class. It seems to be working, well done Tim on all your hard work.
I can see that the Taipan class is not really taking to the Formula concept yet, I think they have a much bigger fleet, which means that they don`t want to split their numbers into 2 classes, so most are opting to go as standard Taipans rather than F16. It will take some time to change this, but I`m sure it will change. All they need is a little buzzing Mosquito to go past them a few times, and they`ll probably go with the kite !

On a performance level, we`ve worked out an ISAF rating (unofficial as we`re not affiliated to ISAF)of 1.13, depending on boat weight, some 9% slower than full F16 on paper, those Australians must be sailing their socks off ! This is why they race Taipan with spi. on handicap. As you said, at F16 events, when they do happen, it would have to be on scratch. (I hope it really BLOWS so the mozzies have a fair fight !)

On that subject, things seem to be really quiet in US & EU, I know it`s winter, I`d still love to know where the F16 class is actually getting boats on the water, US seems to be too wide-spread, only 12 or so Taipans & all live in different time zones is not helping. I`d imagine the UK should be getting somewhere, with the Spitfires, Stealths etc being in production. Your comments ?

Cheers
Steve

>>How many F16 regattas have had 14 boats so far ? Our last club event had 14 spinnaker-rigged mozzies, only 16 months after the first spinnaker was launched.

Wow, 14 mozzie F16's ? That is some good growth. Congrats.

>>I can see that the Taipan class is not really taking to the Formula concept yet, I think they have a much bigger fleet, which means that they don`t want to split their numbers into 2 classes, so most are opting to go as standard Taipans rather than F16. It will take some time to change this, but I`m sure it will change.

I don't worry much at all about this. All US taipans (bill is going for a spi as well now) , as good as all Asian Taipan and all European Taipans have spis (= F16). What do you want to see Steve, 2 spis on the Taipans ?

The Aussies had their NSW F16 nationals in 2003 and will have this one and a Vic(toria) one as well in 2004; therefor there is nothing to be ashamed about.

A lot of Taipan sailor like to race class with a spi; I don't see any issues with that. Hell I would do it myself if there was a Taipan 4.9 class in my neck of the woods.

Isn't this like having the best of both worlds ? Compare to Hobie Tiger and Hobie Tiger as F18 ?

>>On that subject, things seem to be really quiet in US & EU, I know it`s winter, I`d still love to know where the F16 class is actually getting boats on the water, US seems to be too wide-spread, only 12 or so Taipans & all live in different time zones is not helping. I`d imagine the UK should be getting somewhere, with the Spitfires, Stealths etc being in production. Your comments ?

My first comment is that you should have known better. We have actually 21 F16's in the USA with 2 going to California in late 2003 thus making a Start-up there after the first F16 arrived their in 2002. And you haven;t been paying attention when you say that the US have been quiet. Taipans and F16's were listed in several regatta's over this 2003/2004 winter. For example Tradewinds and Jetty Pier Ocean regatta in the last months alone.

In Europe all our boats are in winterstorage. And it is definately NOT quiet in EU behind the scenes. 2 Stealth F16's will be delivered to my area in spring 2004. We have a very serious Blade F16 customer here as well. Both Taipan (in full F16 mode = wider etc) and Blade will have demo boats here in spring 2004. And we're working hard on the Dutch Coast Challenge as you know as you wanted to participate in it.

And we're expanding on the builder scene as well. Beside both myself and builders are reporting an sharp increase in interest. I can trully say that I've never been more active in answering mails of potential new members or new boat owners than ever before. Now I 'm not going to quote names to proof my claim but rest assured that the list is in double digits. Not all will buy a boat eventually but it does show its potential.

I know you like to stir the pot but I garantee you that more F16's are sold than Mozzies so forgive me for raising my eyebrows to your statement of "things seem to be really quiet in US & EU". By your own measure your own scene is more quiet which I know to be a unrepresentive statement.

But at this point in time I don't really care anymore what people say about the F16 class, it is already certain that this class is going to make it. We've survived the start-up ; are succesful at getting three optimized designs on the market and initiate a growth in multiple area's of the world. All F16 builders, (and I trully mean all) are on the same line and have expressed that they feel that the F16 class is a world class to be. Going on on the mails I recieve I say that this feeling is increasing shared by sailors.

I get mails from several sailor who currently already own a 2 year old cat and want to switch anyway. bBecause of boat weight and because they feel the F16 class is really either an active class or is currently growing into one.

Besides when things are going well than there is not need to be loud is there ?

We'll leave that to other classes.

Wouter

Apologies to all I offended by asking this question. It was definitely not a "challenge" for anybody to substantiate the existence or growth of the F16 class, it was intended to perhaps get some of the guys who are currently racing & getting race results to share their experiences with the rest of us, as I haven`t read any race reports or sailing experiences (doesn`t have to be racing either). The last posts on this forum about SAILING an F16 boat I`ve read was by Paul Kilkenny & Tim Mozzie. Perhaps I`ve missed a few others ?
The reason I asked the question is because, browsing through a UK sailing mag recently I came across an article about the Spitfire being the fastest growing cat class in either Europe or UK, that they`ve just had their European champs etc. No mention was made as to how many boats there were, so I`m curious. Maybe one of the sailors present, or the dealer / manufacturer could keep us informed. Please also bear in mind that we get UK or American sailing mags about a month late, so being kept informed through this forum would really help. If you look at the Open Forum, the guys talk about their sailing experiences, I think we should do the same from an F16 point of view.
If we do this I believe that some of the classes detractors will see that we are actually sailing, not just talking about it.

Please re-read my original post on this subject, I don`t think I meant any harm. What I meant by the question is :where are they sailing, getting race results etc. For example, the recent Steeplechase regatta : where were the F16`s.(Yes, I can look it up on the results, but how about a small race report from some competitors, their experiences etc. - I already have the race winner`s side of the story !)

Cheers
Steve

There were around 25 boats at the Spitfire Euros last year. I don't think there were quite as many at the UK Nationals.

That dependents on which source you trust most. Yacht and Yachting gives 18 entries and the final results show 10 entries.

Wouter

There were 25 Spitfires at the Europeans and 18 at the UK Nationals. See http://www.spitfiresailing.org.uk under results.
The Nationals was in Wales, and some English boats did not travel.The Formula 18s and Spitfires held their Nationals at the same venue and on the same course. I know, I was there at the back of the fleet
The main Spitfire fleets are in England and France, with 6 in Ireland.