F16 Future

ive been trying to sell my boat to build the class locally, but no one bites.

Mark,

I also wonder how to grow the class further. The temperature on the forum is typically

winterish

, so I dont think you should read to too much into it.

To build the class further I think we need more PR, more good events, a used boat market and the F-16 class spirit. Of these we are probably ahead of schedule (saturation!) with the PR on catsailing forums, but getting pieces into publications and newspapers should be a priority.
We need more good events with focus on having a good time, but still with excellent sailing. We need reports and pictures from those events to reach sailing magazines and websites. We have a chicken and egg problem with boats vs. events, but still it is important to get out information about the events so people can see that there is activity.
We need a larger used boat market with entry level prices. That is one of the great strengths of the Hobie16 class, there are boats available everywhere and at all prices. I know there is interest all over this country, but new or

almost new

boats are too expensive or too far away to pick up.
We need to build the F-16 class spirit, the

can do

,

have fun

,

great time

,

go fast

,

excellent dudes

feeling.

That is my toughts about how to grow the class further and faster without bringing in topics like the internet and the forum. If the class had a budget we could target areas and do some advertising, but

viral

marketing and

word of mouth

works pretty well.

Rolf,
You made some very good points especially

Lets face it if your only PR is on a cat sailing forum your most likely to be preaching to the converted. We need to convert more people. Magazines and newspapers would be a good place to start giving us access to non cat sailors.

We could all start by getting a report published in local sailing magazines of the F16 GC. It may be old hat to us but it would be new to anyone who does not read this forum.
Just a thought.

Regards,
Phill

While sailing the Tornado I usually wrote a small piece before an event and a report after events. I always got space on magazines websites, and often a shortened report and eventual pictures in the magazines. The same for the local paper. Magazines and newspapers loves free digital materials, especially if the journalist kan do some small changes to the text and publish it. Getting your work into magazines is easy, the only cost is some exposure of your name and sometimes some heavy editing of your text. Send your text and pictures to the sports people in the paper, or any journalist/editor of sailing magazines. It's easy!

(and dont forget to post a link or the same material here)

A write up in Australian sailing may help.
The Blade coming onto full production and a review is in order...
Also the AHCP F16

mini Capricorn

Viper would make interesting reading..
In addition I suggest

Multihull

and

wooden boat builder

probably both would die for professionally done pieces..

Problem is that people buy boats; Love them to bits and so don't well them !

As for PR, I have Jeremy Evans (Y+Y) booked in to do a

sail test

on My F16; we've just not managed to meet up and makle it happen; and it's now getting cold !

I'll drop him another email and see when he wants to do it <img src=

alt=

/>

Been a touch busy with more pressing matters in the last couple of weeks <img src=

alt=

/>

I agree with Phill that this forum isn't the place to do marketing for the class. It's an excellent place to help new sailors getting to know their boats and so on...

According to me there are 2 ways to approach the market, both should be used.

1 talk to the manufactures, a difficult thing to do.
I already contacted Boulogne concept marine (Cirrus) and Nacra Europe. Both selling 'F104' at the moment, so they didn't say they'd change their platforms right away. Still Cirrus did not really know about the F16 or that it was an active community.... In that way it was kind of a good result. I think if you can remind them of the F16 once in a while and get them interested it could be a good thing.
Still got Hobie on my list....

2 approach the buyers.
At the moment Kathleen and I are trying to rework the F16 flyer and maybe someone should also make or distribute a A4 or A3 poster that could be hung out at club houses.

As we said before also the F16 logo should always be in the sail. That way interested people know what to look for on the internet.

A newsletter could also be set-up to send out. You can send it to other catsailors you know, to constructors, .... Just to make F16 something common, something that is talked about.

Alter Cup. I think it is a great concept and should be tried out more. Maybe not as a real race, but get introduction weekends with at least 5 to 10 boats. It's nice to see on the beach and a lot of people can be reached.

Last and maybe most important, racing. We should compete in international regatta's (and the best would be to beat a lot of FXOne, Inter17 and ofcourse F18 or at least be as good as them).

Something interesting could be monitoring the F16website and checking number of vistors, where they come from, search words, ... We had a small article in a belgian sailing magazine for example and it would be nice to see if that had any effect....

Regards,
Gill

Hi Mark,

I am/was looking for a new boat. Soon I read about F16. So yes, the presence of F16 is good, if you are already in touch with beachcats or use frequently internet. My problem was: It is difficult to get a F16, if you are not in UK or the Netherlands (or close to it). No dealer in Germany, France and southern Europe, the big markets. I guess that the UK and Dutch market is saturated now, for a further growth you need new markets.
I know from some people, that they are interested in F16 or T4.9, but go for other boats due to availablity or price.

Overall the marketing is wrong in my opinion. It comes along as high tech racing boat, sometimes even as

nearly-as-fast-as-F18

. There are so many other

HT

cats out there and people want to buy fun rather then speed. Actually the boat is light weight and it is the best replacement for the Dart 18. That are the points which has to be promoted, there is no other class (and very few competetor boats) out there, which offers this aspect of sailing.

If you promote the boat in such a way and if there are sufficient dealer, you could hopefully reach more people.

I hope that this will help you.

Cheers,

Kolja

I agree totally with Kolja. While in it's pure sense this is a racing boat, its' attributes may be very attractive to a lot of sailors, if marketed correctly. I think Hans Giesler, with the G-Cat F16, hit a home-run and the boat went nowhere. Simple, deep-vee hulls, no boards. The low weight can be so attractive to many older and aging sailors. Can we assume the boat does not have to be rigged with the 3rd sail to be a fun recreational boat? and no doubt faster than a TheMightyHobie18 for instance.

I've got two little ideas about promotion. One, the thing that sets this class apart from most is that it can be done (race or sail) one up or two. Some clever wording that expressed that would be helpful.

Do It, one up or two, with spinnaker

.

The other thing, in my late fall and early spring sailing there was always interest from sailors and non sailors. They would say,

What is that

. IMO the boat labeling is too much about the manufacture and not enough about the class. In this country people are not acquainted with the formula idea. When they see

F 16

they are pretty sure that it is 16 feet long, but the F could be Frank, Fitzgerald, Fun.......? I'd be OK with big letters down the side of the hull that spelled it out,

Formula 16

. Then they can think, Where do I get one?

Excellent idea IMO.

If wanting to build recognition I think

FAST16

would catch more than Formula. The idea that

formula

somehow aligns the boats with formula one racing is lame so why be attached to the word.
I would go so far as to say the title of the class SHOULD be changed to that because Formula 18 will always outgun the glass in the publics eye....like formular one against formula three.....formula three is always the youngies class.

A logo on all boats would be great but many might not like that request.

NO ONE other than cat racing geeks can see the diference between these boats. Often on a beach an actual sailor will come up to me and ask if my boat is a this or that.......they just see catamarans that are newish or older and can get the difference between a 14 and an 18 because the size ratio is substantial enough to be obvious.
Logos mean so much and F16 says nothing to most people.

FAST16

people can understand and will not forget.

A weight restriction on the heavier boats like the T which sent lighter people onto the FAST16 platform would also help.

Before the purist write at me about the word formua representing what the boat actually is and the reasoon the boat is constructed to specific measurements making it a

class

which speaks to its racing format.....no one out there cares...that is geek stuff.

The Hobie 16 is recognised by millions, not because they know what it looks like and can pick it from another boat but because it is a name they have heard.........formual 16 formula 18 formula 14.......the average joe will never care.

A Normie out there will at present think a Hobie 16 is much sexier than an F or Formula 16 because of the name. Having a groovier F on the logo will mean nothing out on the street.

Even the

FAT16

would be better, speaking to the fat top sails.....creating a vision in the people eye of romance.

Warbird,

I do think 'Formula' and the racing aspect of the class is an important thing.
When I talk about the F16 at our club people think it's interesting to sail a platform where you can also race on elapsed time. The F18 is very well known and famous in Europe, so in Europe it's really to sell the class as a formula class.

Regards,
Gill

Agreed.

Totally!

How about vertically down the mast?

I expect this reaction and understand it, I think in a similar way.

The formula would not change, nor any of the rules. You could still discuss all of those geeky bits with people but while you retain the

Formula

label as your primary name I think you will have to accept being the

lighter

,

smaller

, less commercially groovy class to F18 and therefore find it harder to grow interest.

And before you start wittering about what is best and why, you are speaking to the converted (I have a Taipan) so save it. I am talking specifically about creating interest in outsiders, it is a shallow world and label is everything.

I guess people who will spent between 10k and 15k for an F16 know exactly what the word Formula mean. I also think that F16 is high performance boat and therefore it seems to me that performance is the best way to market it (like F18). Then I agree on the fact that F16 should compete as most as they can in regatta to be seen.

I don't think the logo will do a lot of difference, as people who are interested in F16 are already

catamaran geek

. That's fine because F16 are not rotomolded cat, they are no build for everyone.

For me, the most important things that has been said here about this issue is the number of manufacturer in southern europe and the possibility to compete on elapsed time.

Just my 2 cents...

Ciao,
tom_in_fire.

Sail more. The more people who see the boat, the better.

I've stopped worrying about. A few people will sail, most won't.

Just an ideea....

From the other side of the fence .

F16 sounds cool - like a fighter jet !! , in same theme as Tornado , Hurricane , Stealth

You got a good name , people are starting to relate to it , don't go and change it , Fast 16 sounds absolutely naff/lame perhaps not over the pond but certainly here , I would like a F16 - I nearly have the rig ! , but would be embarrased to say Fast 16 as you would just get the P*ss taken out of you .Wouldn't touch a boat with a barge pole with a name like fast 16 - sounds like a rotomoulded fun boat for folks that dont know what fast is .

You got more important things to do than changing the recognised name of an establishing class

(have you seen the comments in the F16 thread in SA ?? <img src=

alt=

/>)

PS arguing about the name when you have more important matters to address only derates F16's in others eyes .

Thats free marketing feedback for you .

Stick to your ideals and move on theres a big place in cat sailing for F16 whose best feature is the 1/2 man equal competition in a high performance boat .and they are sexier to look at (new stealths particularily- but i'm biased ) and higher tech than the f18

It will be slow going for a while but as more sailors see the boats up close, I think they will consider it. I personally didn't consider it, thought it too small, until I sailed one. Perhaps we should be inviting others to go for a ride? Both sailors and non-sailors alike.

With the prices of A cats through the roof, the F16 is a great alternative one-man boat.

1.Faster than the A cat in some conditions.

2.Able to bring the wife or kids for a ride.

3. Not as expensive or hard to move about as an F18.

4. If you can't find crew, you can still race.

All are the strong selling points of the F16 class. Changing the name is not going to sell more boats.

Sail more. A guy came up to me Sunday. He used to have a mahogany A cat and thought the Blade looked cool under main alone. In just a minute Tback pulled in under jib and he liked that too.

We talked price for a minute and he thought the Blade looked even better.

So sail more. The boat is a moving bill board.

I've been watching the forum for a while now. I have seen the vid's on the webb (ie. the Spitfire) and even though I have been sailing for only a year now, I'm hooked and want a more practical boat than my aging Hobie 18. I believe that the best boat is the F16 due to size, weight, versatility and the fact that one man should be able to safely rig it. The challenge for people like me is, if you don't live in France, England, Australia or Floridia. You will have a very hard time finding one or even worse... even getting a response from the manufacturers when you email them for information.

One question, how close is the Nacra SL 16 to the F16 guidelines? I can get one of them pretty easily (and Nacra isn't that popular in the states!)

I'm not sure the new Nacra SL16 would be compettitive if raced in the F16 class. From what I have read, it has a bit less sail area, is a bit heavier, and has no daggerboards, so I doubt if it will point as well going upwind. Still, it might measure in to the F16 box rule, which specifies maximum sail area, minimum weights, not vice versa.

The SL 16 was supposed to be the new US Sailing youth cat so if you have kids and want them to get into a youth sailing cat, that would be the one. But it's not really an F16 per se. I wish they had built it more to the F16 rule, it would have been a better boat.

Maybe I haven't given everyone fair enough time to respond to my emails for information on the various F16's out there.

I live in Utah only about 1-15 minutes drive from the Great Salt Lake and have developed a love of sailing and have always loved going fast at anything I do. I would love to have a boat that will be fun and fast wether solo or with the kids while still having a light enough rig that I can step the mast without to much strain. My Hobie 18's mast is quite the chore to step if I am alone.

I just don't know how I might get one to me here in the middle of the continent.

I wasn't talking about a name change. Doesn't the 'F' in 'F16' mean formula? or an i still out to lunch?
Will

Billy, I live in Illinois and when I bought my Blade they crated it and shipped it here from Florida by truck. I just had to put it together. There are definitely big challenges being a long way from factory support or other locals who have one as well, but the forum here is a great source of support.

I just got a reply from Matt at Vectorworks with some pricing and details. I guess that there is only the blade that is really available here in the US right now as they are still waiting for the Viper to come available here.

I really am looking for something I can rig myself, go fast, have fun (with or without the kids) and not have to worry about reliability to much. My 28 year old TheMightyHobie18 takes at least a $50 bill out of my wallet each time I take it out and I won't even try and step the mast alone again. (almost dropped it on the wife's jeep last time, that would have been the end of my sailing career!) <img src=

alt=

/>