F16 Future

Someone brought up the fact that Nacra's do sell quite well here in the US. I admittedly eat crow, here.

They are outselling everthing else here in the US. I guess what I meant to say is that the Nacra is not as popular in the US as in Europe and here again, I am probably wrong as I live in Utah and have no clue how well they sell on the coasts. That what I get for being a nube!

Cheers and no offense. (It would be really cool if Nacra got on the F16 train! Just the nube talking <img src=

alt=

/>.)

Amen Brother, and I'm near a big city and sailing mecca.

Just an ideea....

quote]

: )

 

Timbo-
Just came back from the A Cat Worlds- Now THERE was lots of publicity! Why? IMO - It's got a lot of

development

and the Rock Stars sail them! If we really want to get on the racing radar we need some (more-in the US we at least have Matt right now! ) of those rock stars sailing and competing on our (F16) boats. We need some National and International races with the likes of Gashby, Booth, Glasers, Guck, Smyth, etc. sailing and winning on our boats- That takes

resources

(ie money) to happen- these persons are sailing professionals. Several of the above mentioned are sailmakers and DO have at least some monetary gain to be made from our class since we have

open

sail rules. We need to invite these persons to come to races, give some demos. and talks and bring/sail on their sails they have sold to the participants. We need to have our boats entered in the big events that COME with publicity- I'm talking Texel, the Alter Cup qualifiers, some of the other big distance races, etc. preferably doing well or winning.
What do you think the impact of the Global Challenge would have been if Gashby had been racing Booth and, say, Smyth and Dercksen?
As for marketing to

newbies

- we are not a

newbie

boat IMO, maybe

newbie

to cats but not

newbie

to sailing- just like the A cat is not for newbies. As for NACRA, Hobie etc. joining the F16 builders- that will come with interest and potential market. Believe me, if either thought there was a good market for them out there to build an F16 they would be!
The main topic of conversation at the IACA meeting was how to keep the A class growing. With the cost of a new A cat now in the 20K-40K USD range (Thanks weak dollar!!) that class has the same issue with how to get new sailors (think younger) into the class.
Compared to the A Cat we are a marketing dream IMO- Our boats are light but not too light/fragile, can be sailed with one OR two people and raced that way, can be sailed with a spinnaker, can also be rigged/righted easily by one person, and the class is more

defined

than the A cat (imagine spending 30K one year only to find out your boat is

not competitive

the next year!).
We need to keep sailing, showing the boat, writing up our great results, supporting the companies that are willing to support us (ie sail on our boats- the Glasers make nearly all the Blade sails but neither competes on F16's-- We need to invite them for instance!).
Just throwing out some other ideas here-
We could benefit possibly by positioning ourselves as a

training class

for the Formula 18

wannabe's

and the frustrated A cat sailors and older Formula 18 sailors.
Having

cheap

intro. boats would be helpful - and there are options along these lines but we need to culture those- I'm talking about old Mosquitos, Isotopes, heck even old Prindle 16's, Nacra 5.0's, Mystere 5.0's, Hobie 16's, etc. Maybe it would help to have a

Category 2 F16

ala the A cat? Have all the parameters the same EXCEPT the min. weight which could be 300-320 lbs.? These boats could race head up with the

Category 1

boats for overall F16 results BUT also be scored separately for their own trophies? This would suddenly open up the

Class

to a huge number of potential sailors- ALL of whom would likely be interested in at least upgrading sails and possibly masts- the sail/mast makers could develop

kits

to

upgrade

their current (or easily/cheaply purchased) old Nacra/Hobie/etc.- sort of like the Formula 14 is offering to Hobie 14 owners for instance.

Of course, as one of the

old farts

, I'm just thrilled with where the class is now compared to even 5 years ago! So part of me says

Just keep up what you've been doing!

.
Nuff said this morning <img src=

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/>

Kirt <img src=

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/>

Kirt,

great post!
I dont think we should market ourself as a

as such, but we should certainly reach out to these. There is a difference in mentality.

Otherwise, I think it would be great looking at the Div1 - Div2 system. Bringing more boats and sailors into the community can only be good. Or?

With cats out of the olympics, Gashby, Bundock, Booth and others are certainly looking for new avenues. I dont know how much money there is to be made in the F-16 class, but the potential is there!

Kirt: Congratulations on sailing the

Worlds

! I'm still crushed that I couldn't get down to watch.

I do disagree with most of you though. Just sailing the boat will be the best promotion. Sail when you can and where you can. Just sail.

I have to add that

match racing

Tback, at Carlisle, in a small portsmouth fleet was a heck of a lot of fun. So don't think you have to have a big fleet to enjoy sailing.

I think Pete has it, we can preach to each other here all we want, but to bring in

new blood

we need to get the boats out on the beach/water and be seen.

I do agree that it is not a

starter

type boat, like say a Hobie 16, in either cost or complexity. But for the ones who are looking for something between an A cat and an F-18, the F16 makes a lot of sense, espicially for lighter crews or no-crews.

And it sure would help to get the type of exposure that those world champions garner when they all sail in one fleet. You see why Nacra and Hobie give some of those guys F-18's to race for free.

I will gladly -lend- my Blade F16 to Glen Ashby or Jay Glasser or Randy Smythe to race at Tradewinds if they are interested.

Share Rolf's reservation on market positioning. Also wonder if a having two divisions could have unintended consequences - delay people moving up to an optimized design and weaken the marketing message of the light-weight, high performance, dual configuration boat.

However, don't mean at all to suppress the brainstorming - it's all good. I like the idea of inviting some top sailors to borrow a boat at some key events. Maybe use a little sponsorship or some association funds to assist with travel expenses. Also like the idea in Kirt's other post of organizing some regional events.

Another suggestion - I think it would be cool to have

formula 16

in oversize outline lettering right down the size of our hulls. Maybe Robi could do us a group deal. Would stand out more at a mixed regatta than just a class logo on the sail or rear end of the hull.

Kirt

We could benefit possibly by positioning ourselves as a

training class

for the Formula 18

wannabe's

and the frustrated A cat sailors and older Formula 18 sailors.

If you promote anything as a

Training Class

you instantly devalued it. It would portray the owners of an F16 as not good enough to sail a real racing cat...so they have to settle on a F16... some day when they get good enough they can

step up

to a F18 or A cat which is so not the case.

If you want some one to desire your product you have to highlight everything that increases it perceived value, not the other way around. The F16 is poised in a perfect position of extreme versatility coupled with outstanding performance at a reasonable price…right now it represents the most bang for the buck of any catamaran class on the water. It needs to be promoted as such and not devalued in attempt to get anyone and everyone to buy one. The F16 is not for everyone…it is for the discriminating who will not compromise on performance, quality or versatility …it is not a training class…at this point in time it is “THE CLASS” setting the bar that all current (and in the near future) catamaran designs and classes are compared against. The class is steadily growing…solid growth…patients is a virtue.

I guess even one of the founders need to be reminded just what an incredible class he helped start once and a while...

Regards,
Bob

Here's a marketing idea;

If you think you're good, get an F16 and find out! Sailing it Uni with spin is the most demanding sailing you will do, tougher than the A cat solo or the F18 two up.

I heard there was a small group of A cat sailors who were pushing to add a spinnker, they might like the F16 instead, and it only costs half as much! <img src=

alt=

/>

All,

A couple of comments as a F16 sailor...

Having just come back from an outstanding A cat World championship and some other recent events on other boats, such as the South East Wave event, I have really come to appreciate my F16. Competition is 1 aspect of why I sail, but being on a a boat that I really enjoy sailing has become more and more important to me.

The issue we have before us is how do we promote the F16?

The biggest selling point we have is the versatility of the boat. No other class can you legally run even 1 or 2 up, and although they can be sailed with differnt rigs, no other boat stays as ballanced when changing configurations. The spin is there for adrenaline or to just make the boat more fun in light air. It does not have to be rigged for a quick sail, but the boat is made to use one, not just added as an afterthought.

The next selling point is that the F16 is light weight speed on the water. No huge sailing loads or weight to move around. Unfortunately the only way to really appreciate this feature is to get on one. After the Alter Cup, the feedback from the competitors was almost universally positive. People were impressed/supprised with the power and performance that was in a 16 foot boat. Here we are back to Pete's suggestion about just showing up and getting rides for everyone interested. The

professional

level racers/sailmakers like the Glasers and Asbeys of the world are not goint to get fully into the class until there is more world wide racing available. We can not rely on this to sell the class. We amy be able to get them on the boats for local events etc and at least speak well of the class of boat; it is at least a start.

The other real selling point for us a class of boat has to be its current rating, especially in the US. There has been a lot of bashing the handicap system and trying to get numbers for single/ double changed. For people in areas where we have handicap racing, the push should be to get people on more F16's because they have a sweetheart rating and they can do well in handicap events. The rating will change with more events eventually but right now take advantage of some favorable ratings.

There has been a lot of emphasis especailly on this forum in making comparisons to other classes, especially the F18 class. This has drawn a lot of criticism from the other classes, and helped perpetuate the thought that we are just a baby F18 class. No one who has seen or been on an F16 will disagree that they are fast. We are not just a little F18 training boat though. There should be more emphasis on differentiating us as a stand alone class of boat, and promoting the advantages of the F16, than comparing us to other existing designs.

Everyone has their own story, we need to hear them.

Matt

Blade F16 - USA 725

With Robbie Danial just back from the (now pointless) Olympic trials in San Diego and done with the A-Cat Worlds (for which he did great) he is probably heading home to Dunedin and putting together the first USA Viper F16 (He's the USA dealer). Perhaps you F16 guys could get him to sail a few races with you to raise the visablity of the class. Just get ready to get your butts handed to you! <img src=

alt=

/> It would probably help out his own sales of the Viper as well.

Here's an idea; Talk Bob Curry into trying out the

Fad Boat

in a shootin' match with Robbie and any of the ACat rock stars left in Florida this winter. I'm serious, Bob's a good guy and might like the idea. That would REALLY rally interest in the F16! I hear Bob's selling his F17 and has done the ACat thing. What's left for him other than the dreaded Fad Boat? If you could get Randy Smyth to put down that ACat/Sizzler boat maybe he would sign on for a race or two as well. Stranger things have happened and they can't say no if you don't ask.

Matt, maybe you and Robbie could promote this race as a Blade vs Viper shoot out. <img src=

alt=

/> Since it's winter in most of the Northern Hemisphere there's not much going on in cat racing so the world would be watching.

Field of dreams, if you build it they will come...? <img src=

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/>

Matt,
You make two very good points that are completely lost on some people.

While you have a good rating it is easier to promote the class. In the past I have seen this help other classes and no doubt it will help classes in the future. Just the way it is. Recognise its worth for the short time that it exists.

When the class is continually compared against another class it looks like a small person trying to make themselves look big by cutting down others. It creates conflict and it is much harder to attract people to a class always involved in conflict or disliked because of the way they try to drag down others.

We need to put out positive friendly vibes to everyone.
Positive friendly helpful people are good to be around and it is as much about the people as it is about the boat.

David- like your sign off- there was a time when I had a motto of

Sail it and they will come.

Place these on the side of the hulls 96

wide by 10.5

tall each graphic.

You wont be missed, specially by the RC <img src=

alt=

/> But who cares, drive your boat hard!

I hear Bob's selling his F17 <img src=

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/>

Not a f'n chance. THE NACRA F17 IS, BY FAR, THE BEST BOAT I HAVE EVER OWNED. Just get ready to get your butts handed to you!

Bob <img src=

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Because you haven't owned a F16... yet!!!

Pete's got this one right!

Just Sail

!

Now having said that ... if we could get more mast-up storage (for all cats') we'd see an incredible increase in A-Cat's, F16's and F18's. People will pick based upon their individual needs.

That's fine!

We'll get our (unfair) share for all the reasons previously stated.

Use GYC as an example.

* Mast-up storage at a reasonable fee
* Great people
* Excellent local races
* Flourishing F16 and A-Cat Fleet (not so much the others)

I say put your energy behind mast-up storage (so you can set sail within 15 minutes of hitting the sailing location) ... and just sail!

Guys just my 2 cents worth by sticking to F16 and promoting F12,F14 etc your creating feeder classes
regards

Bob, dont blow a fuse, its ok. To each its own.

Where did the

not an f'n chance

come from?
I guess no one wanted his boat when he tried to sell it.

Gang:

Still think the Blade IS the best option for someone who want to sail solo, YET find a crew ever now and then. Right? I can't wait to get one. See in Fla soon.

Doug

great post..
We already have a fairly economical F16.. Great value for the build or so Im told..
Stealth F16! For a fully carbon boat cant get much better than that!!

Not discounting the Blades or Vipers or Ts.. I think given a chance Ashby would jump onto a F16 for a regatta..

Please see the end of my post! <img src=

alt=

/>
When I first got my Taipan and helped start all this I was driving all over the country sailing my boat! If people only read about/hear about them it will mean nothing- but seeing one in person, and especially one that kicks their butt- THAT makes an impression- Just ask Jody.
Totally agree with Matt- in fact in my post was the comment we are a marketing dream vs A cats and F 18's-
Get on ur dry suits (if you aren't in FL or CA or those

little latitudes

!) and get out there!

Kirt

So where were you for Carlisle? <img src=

alt=

/>

Yuh cain't do much

butt handin'

if yuh ain't on the water, pilgrim!

Tiki, chill: Bob is obviously hav'in a sense of humor crises and is very passionate about the Inter 17. In the UK you don't kick a man whilst he's down? Bob is and has been a truly dedicated sailor and he could offer us some very good advise. I know that in the past he has made at least one derogatory statement about F16's being a fad but I'm willing to let that one to be his mulligan.
So Bob given that at as far as I know you haven't actually sailed an F16 in you're experienced opinion how would you promote a Class without knocking the opposition!!

Great ideas coming through on this thread!! I guess for us here on the middle east coast (US) it comes down to #1 Exposure, #2 Mast Up Storage and #3 Availability. We have gone from one boat last year (thanks Constantine) to 4 boats this year thanks to the Alter Cup deal (availability). We are currently located mast up with the open class cat fleet here and that gets us into the mix with our weekly races. We are hoping to get accepted into a one design club for next year where the boats will be exposed to a number of different mono and multi sailors and more racing on a broader scale. We're very lucky to have two mast up clubs for cats in this area where pressure from developement is always high. The F16 pretty much sells itself especially when people can see them and get rides etc. What we will need this coming season in order to grow will be platforms. We went through this with the A Cats starting 5 or so years ago (thanks Chris & Tony). It was not unusual at all to go to hell and back to pick up a boat and thanks to Tony for cobbling broken boats back together. Now we have 16 or so at the club. I'm hoping that we can grow the F16 class here from 4 to 6 boats next year. If we keep pushing, it will happen. Thanks for all the comments. Ed

You are right. It's awfully quiet here these days. It's winter on the northern hemisphere, but still.. What are our australian friends up to?? Who has put T-foils on their Blade down under?

I've been racing regularly with my small rigged F16. The hulls need a topcoat of paint to be finished. The kite and sundry parts are on order, may arrive this week. Basically it is a sloop rigged mosquito rig with kite on top of F16 hulls.

I'm not too fussed about my boat being a bit under spec with respect to the F16 rules because it usually blows 15-20knots each week and is quite choppy. This is my first real season in a cat so learning to make them go is a priority. Plans are underway to acquire the parts to bring it up to full spec in a year or so once the crew and I are comfortable with the boat.

Since there are few other F16's in the area and none that race regularly, there is no rush. The Hobies, Taipans and F18s enjoy trying to convert me. Some of them are a bit blunt about it though.

I would love to see some pics of your boat on the water if you have any.

I keep a close eye on the developments with respect to your boat.

Wouter

I'll have to rope someone into taking some on water photos once the kite is sorted.

Raced in 20-30 knots and nasty chop a few weeks back. Didn't break it so I'm pretty happy with the structure. Once we figured out how to tack in those conditions, we were going pretty well.