F16 Future

I think the mast up storage area with good access to water is the biggest hold back to us here in the States. The one club here in Florida that offers this has the most active regular cat racing, every other weekend. When I travel to other countries I see that the most active cat fleets are where there is a club with mast up storage and a regular scheduled racing program, be it on week nights or weekends, the ability to get your boat in the water in about 15 minutes and not having to take it apart after every sail is a big draw. Everywhere I go, except the USA, has clubs with cats set up, ready to go. It's very strange to me that there are so few clubs like that here.

The mono clubs all offer on site storage for everything from Opti's to Melges 24's. In todays world of

I want it all and I want it now!

this is a big deal when you are trying to get more people out on the water and/or into your fleet. If they can rely on a regular racing schedule, kids program, maybe a beach for the wife to hang out at, or near by shopping, etc. that adds to the draw.

The problem here in the US is because of the run up in real estate prices, any good water front access has become un-affordable to any start up cat club. I was at a club up in Mass. 11 years ago, even though they had a very good program, the

board

was having trouble covering the property tax, and was considering selling the property, since it had become so valuable as about the only undeveloped waterfront in the greater Boston area. It was bought for something like $10,000 way back when, but had become worth millions over the years. Some on the Board didn't even sail! But they sure wanted a peice of that Millions if it was sold off to a developer for waterfront condo's.

Telling prospective newbies they will have trouble finding a place to launch is no way to get more people involved. I think if we had more clubs that welcomed cats, or if cats were to infiltrate regular dinghy clubs, we might get more converts from the mono crowds. But as was said back at the beginning, you have to get out there and sail to get noticed and create some interest in cats.

That's how I was converted, I saw a couple Tornados screaming across the bay while racing a mono-dinghy in 20 knots of wind, and I said,

I've got to check those things out!

and if I had not seen them, I'd still be racing monos.

If I didn't live on a lake today, I doubt I'd be sailing at all, since there are no good clubs less than 90 miles from me and I just wouldn't have the time to trailer, set up, sail, take down, drive home. Too much bother.

Makes you realise how lucky we are in uk !!

the fact that our organising body has little interest in our develope pails to insignificance against these problems above .

I think another problem the US suffers from is that everything is up for sale. The state doesn't reserve area's for the public good very often. I think that in places like the UK, France and NL the state in principle owns ALL water(coast) front property and reserves it for general use except for a few exceptions. They never sell this property but rather rent it out and force right of overpath. This means that as a sailing club (a societal benefit) can get a permit for exploitation of a sailing club right next to a commericial enterprise and NOT have to pay the same rent. The state (and local governments) regards sailing clubs as enrichment of the locale and is willing to stimulate it / help it out.

In the US everything goes to the highest bidder and eventually you end up with very poor diversity and very few area's reserved for the common good. End result this area's are highly contested as well.

I think this is one of those area's where EU and US take on government differ fundamentally. The US call such involvement of government bordering on totalitarianism, in the EU we just go sailing from our beach side parking and ignore the retorical BS. Afterall in a democracy the government is us, isn't it ?

Wouter

Having a beach to congregate is number one.
Taking over an existing club is one of my favortites.
Band with the local trailerable dinghies/monos fleets and find some public land to take over. A club that's open to all boats gets attention, whereas the exclusive

our boat only club

will probably get no audience (well, an audience without results). Sail Sand Point was used by us as an example Community Boating Center Hopeful ours will be a usable example for Corps of Engineer (public) property in the near future http://www.kansassailing.com/facilitie s" target="_blank">KSA facility
All are started with simple ideas and desire <img src=

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Wouter, as a generalization this is a huge misconception. I find the number and size of forest preserves and state and national parks here really quite impressive. And I also see local government strongly involved in community development activities. It's true that waterfront public space may not as well protected as some other countries, but your generalization just isn't true.

The problem is not so much that we don't have public beaches, we have quite a few, but because they are for

Public Use

most do NOT allow boat launching from that site. Even Cats on beach wheels, or even surfboards in some locations, they are banned or told to,

Go surf over there...

and there might be a special flag or poles set up that designate a surfing area. This is due to a concern for public safety. If a Cat (or jet ski, or surfer) were to run into a kid swimming at the local public beach, there would be hell to pay, as well as a huge lawsuit. So in the interest of

Public Safety

, all boating and even surfing is usually banned at the public beaches. We have to get waivers and special permission and insurance every time we have a big regatta at a public beach, and they usually only allow one per year, like at Jetty Park Ocean Regatta, at Cocoa Beach, Fl.

So we do have public beaches, you just can't launch your boat there because you might hurt someone. You certainly would not want to leave your boat overnight at a public beach, it would be stripped of all lines and blocks, or gone by morning. Sailing here is considered a

Rich Man's Sport

so the public attitude is, get off my beach and go to your fancy Yacht Club...

The fancy Yacht Clubs don't have much space available for storing a bunch of cats, and most don't have good beaches for cat launching either, they have docks, lifts and ramps covered with slime, which makes it hard to pull your boat back up!

Timbo

Sooner or later cat sailors will have to bite the bullet and pay the piper.

They will have to JOIN and SUPPORT a club in their region if they want racing to continue. It may not be convenient... but we will need access to the water and club resources to keep the sport of cat racing going...

Now... I am sure there are TONS of marinas to store your boat and launch... its just hard to get the marina to allow a regatta to happen. So... clubs are the future.

Everything I hear about Gulport confirms that THIS Solution is the way we should go in the future.

California.... is making the transistion... Only the Hobie 16's are doing the beach regatta thing... The F18's... are racing in Yacht Clubs.

The Chesapeake Bay is going that way.... cat sailors have joined WRSC.... CBYRA YC's host the majority of events.

The very strong hobie fleets in Div 11 (new jersey, Pa Deleware)... are hanging in there.... But...sooner or later they will also have to find new solutions as well.

Right now... they have two YC.... Rehoboth and Sandy Hook anchoring their racing (4 regattas) ... they create three events (Gunpowder, Barnegat Bay and Wildwood) on the beach. They have two Barnegat Bay YCs hosting events on the coastal bays ... but sadly these are a bit tenuous because they don't have lots of members who belong to these clubs. ...

I think the writing is on the wall... support those clubs by joining and making racing happen now or risk the really strong racing scene they have simply going the way of the dodo bird.

I agree Mark, now we just need to decide which clubs to join, so we don't get scattered too thin. In Florida there is so much beach area though, the cat sailors are spread out all over the place. The Gulfport club is growing now that it has gained a critical mass of cat sailors. I would love to see the guys around Orlando all join the Lake Eustis Sailing Club, which hosts two big cat regattas every year and also has a weekly racing program and a kids program. And for the east coast, Cocoa Beach area guys, maybe the Melborne YC? I've never been there but I know they are cat friendly, I don't know if they offer mast up storage, which I think is very important if they want a bunch of cats to join, show up and race on a regular basis.

I drive two hours to Gulfport just because I know when I get there, there will be racing. But I bring my boat home afterwards. I may join the club just to support the racing though.

Hey let's make Timbo's house a yacht club. Nice lake, centrally located in Florida.

Come on down, I've got marks and plenty of room for quite a few cats. No fees required, there is still plenty of water for a good sized course but it is going down an inch a day, may not have much left by spring! <img src=

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Timbo,

While your lake and Eustis are both very nice to sail at and not too far, both are located in the middle of the state and for most of the year the wind is crappy.

Beach access anywhere in Fl is currently out of the question, but we have a few spots that re very nice to sail out of on the east coast here, and the sea breeze of 8-15 can be counted on pretty reularly. The problem is mast up storage.

This should probably go on the regular forum as it pertains to all the local cat sailors, but: The charter that Caleema has at Kelly Park comes up for renewal in the next year or so. A coordinated proposal for storage and slightly expanded facilites at the park could be a good sell to the county if done correctly. There is easily room for a small club house and mast up storage for 1-200 boats, and it is pretty nice area to sail out of. There is the no motor zone up into the space center and you can go as far south as you want to go.

Hey tback, after your condo commando experiece ,you up to lead an attack on the county?

What we do at GYC can easily be done at Kelly Park. I would urge you to start small and show fiscal self suffiency. A chain link fence and metal shipping container are all that is needed for security. You can use the restrooms already there. If you look at a proper club house with restrooms, lights and potable water, I think you need $250k for start up.

The City of Gulfport gets somewhere in the neighborhood of $12k a year from GYC. Plus, we have to pay utilities and insurance. A city will only support you if there is something in it for them. If you go with your hand out, you might just as well stay home. I know! <img src=

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I'm pretty well done with JPOR. It's a difficult trip (diagonally across the State on secondary roads), my wife can probably not come with me, I don't like launching in surf, and, frankly, it isn't very well organized. Eustis is much the same. Supporting a new club, especially one with a youth program, would put such a trip back on my list.

Sorry, but in FL GYC is where its at. Sadly ive been spoiled rotten with GYC.

Travel is such a problem! A nice gathering spot at Kelly Park is probably the ticket. How many beach goers there versus JP? It would also give you the basis for a nice youth program.

Pete,

Not much we can do about the travel issues, but the organization of the race is being addressed.

Gina is the new Chair and we have already started putting some things in place for next year. Also, the event has been scheduled to be at Kelly Park. It is much easier for the organizers and volunteers. The other issue was that there are quite a few A cats and also Waves around that for the most part do/will not launch at beach sites. Running a fun event with as many people as possible is the ultimate goal, even though I personally really like sailing in the ocean.

Matt

I'll look into it.

Matt, you are correct about the crappy wind in the summer, that's why the Lake Eustis club shuts down all summer, but in the winter there's pretty good wind most of the time, and you don't have to wash salt off your stuff when done. It would be quite a big project to start a club from scratch at Kelly Park but I would go there to race if there was one. I would not leave my boat as I like to have it at home on my beach so I can sail when I have time and wind.

The first thing you would have to do to build a new club at Kelly Park though is put up a big fence with barbed wire to keep the theives out. A club house is not so important to me, they have public bathrooms there and there is a gas station with beer, soda and chips across the street. So maybe for just the price of some fencing it could be started, if you want mast up storage. And then later, get some mebership, and build a club house. Remember it was only a few years ago when the Eustis club was only a shack and two porta-potties.

Robi, i like the slanted lettering.

I'm wondering what it would look like using MarkMT's idea of outline lettering (20 Nov post)?

Will

Will something like this?

I like this one a lot <img src=

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Yea Robi,
I like it a lot also.
Got any idea about pricing per boat,
and does size matter?<img src=

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Will

Will I sent you a PM

From the view of a german sailor it is not easy to step into the F16 class.
First point is to get an affordable F16 cat. Yes the Blade and other F16 cats offer big value for money, but even then, who is able to spend 13.000 EUR just for a hobby? These days are economical difficult with rising prices for energy and living and money isn't spent careless.

We have no second hand market with cheap boats for beginners like other classes. This will change in the future, but some sailors have to step into new boats first.

There was no major company with good reputation and aftermarket service offering cats. The F16 class is more seen as a development class where some have to bulid his cat by hand and tweak around. This is not for everyone, who wants just to sail a well engineerd cat after work, or at weekends.
This year AHPC will bring the Viper to the german market, but it will last a while till some cats are sold.

In northern germany even other classes have problems at regattas for a decent amount of boats at the start.
The A class plans to cooperate with Denmark to get enough boats at regattas.
The F18 struggles to get 10 boats for the ranking list regattas. They plan to attract new sailors at a major regatta, that every owner has to bring a newbie under 30years old, which causes some rumor under the old hands.
It is an inventive or desperately attempt to get some attraction to the class.

So far open class racing is the future to the F16s in Germany. And showing up there will be my part for a good pr to the class. So far everyone who has seen my Blade liked the shape and this is a good start to arise more interest.

Nevertheless i do not regret the investment in my Blade and had some memorable runs e.g when the Blade accelerated to speed. Can't wait till next season starts.

Now I'll grab my kayak and go as canoeist on the Elbe. Cant live without watersport...
Have a look at the attachment, it was shot sylvester, a nice way to finalise the year on the water

Hi Holger,

nice picture, but I know how cold it is! Do you want to sail your Blade on the Elbe as well? If not, maybe you think about Hohwacht, there you will find me and my new boat. With water until the horizon, so you can enjoy the ride under spi.
I am planning to go to Rund Fehmarn this year, maybe you will join and show your boat there...

Cheers,

Klaus

Hi Holger,

I understand what you mean.
On the other hand, I think the F16 has a bigger chance where the F18 group is smaller. I mean it doesn't matter then if you buy a 16 or 18. And for open regatta's you're better of with a F16 if you buy a 16 foot boat because you can always sail up front.

Anyway, a good representation of sellers is always important, even if there is only one. So I hope APHC will sell some Vipers over there.

Gill

The winter sun on the photo didn't show the real temperature, it was only a few degrees over zero. Today some ice chunks were floating at the shoreline, but nothing serious like this -attachment.
Kayaking in winter is much warmer than people can imagine, and it is good training for physical strength at catsailing.
My heartrate goes over 130bpm in the kayak and that produces much warmth from the inside.
Sitting on the trampoline in the wind and spray makes my mind freezing at todays temperatures. I envy the florida sailors who can sail the year round.

Next season I'll stay at the Elbe. Sailing at the sea is nice, but too far away from Hamburg to get onto the cat under the week. And a view to the gasoline station makes my decision a lot easier.
I hope to sail alot more than last year, when the Blade came late at mid season, and needed some work to sort all things out. I know the Elbe is a difficult area for catsailing with strong tide currents and container ship traffic but it won't get boring on the water. That's why I like kayaking after over 30 years here, none day is like the other on the water.

Gilo:

And for open regatta's you're better of with a F16 if you buy a 16 foot boat because you can always sail up front.

If I sail upfront will depend on my skills and if I can sail my Blade to the Texel Rating. The US sailors had a favorable rating with their F16s
but even there times will become harder under the new rating.
With an own trailer in future I am ready equipped to travel at weekends to the sea and meet other catsailors, like Klaus, in Hamburg I am more or less on my own.

Holger,

so you are actually kayaking around 60-70% of your max heart rate? That is great restitution/easy cardiovascular training. I got a heart rate monitor for christmas and is hooked on it now <img src=

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/> Guess I'll have to look at the kayak and consider it for those long and easy cardio workouts. Only problem is that the setup time is rather longer than taking the bike or putting on the running shoes..

Will any of you go to Texel? Both Hamburg and Hannover are only about 450KMs away.

Info on 2nd hand cats: There is a new cat dealer in Holland who specializes in older 2nd hand cats and parts (Not F16 specifically).
They have been buying a LOT of old cats the last 2 years or so for export to Scandinavia en Eastern Europe.
http://www.bnrwatersport.nl/

Hi Tony,

thanks for the link. To be honest, I do not dare to go to Texel with my own boat, I have no experience with strong surf.
btw, we are both from Hamburg, there is no water in Hanover <img src=

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Cheers,

Klaus

Sorry, dont know how I got Hanover mixed in there <img src=

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Anyway, the surf is absolutely nothing to worry about (easy) and with enough boats you guys
might actually make for a class (10 boats make a class, 1st place wins a prize (ceremony in front of hundreds of people, camera's etc (IMHO cheap publicity)).

You are joking? Right? I still have the pictures of Mitch and Herbie wrecking their Carbon-Super-Duper-Hobie-Fox-Concept in the surf at Texel on my retina.

Surf and super-steep waves large as houses.. Me no like (yet, at least <img src=

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