F16 Sail numbers.

Gary,
Given there will be sailors competing with their standard class main sails they will be using the sail number allocated by their class.
This could occassionally cause a conflict of sail numbers between classes. I would suggest sailors fitting F16 specific mainsails (that can not be used wihin their class rules) would be better of acquiring an F16 sail number.
I think we should start F16 sail numbers at 5000.
I don't think this number range would confilct with current participating classes please let me know if I'm wrong.

Gary please let me know if you would like to claim 5000.

Regards,
phill

Taipan started at 1 and is now at 304 I beleive.
Stealth started at 500 and it at 545 or something
Spitfire started at 100 I beleive and skips numbers as far as I can tell
Blade has no numbers yet.
I don't know about the Bim

Now I don't know how to solve this. I would like to have all of your suggestions. Like should we included letters or something.

I would like to see the nationality given in the sail. Something like AUS 304 or NED 016

On the other hand I don't want to end up with sailnumbers as long as the Hobie 16's; They are unrecognizable.

We could do a few things.

-1- Either just start at 0 and work our way up independent of the nations. Any duplicate number will than have to put a X behind their number or something or a extra 0. This can even be done during a single race. I know this is how they do it in open regatta formats here. AUS 057 "probably a Taipan" and AUS 057X (Some other F16). Ofcourse nothing needs to be done when the nation identifiers are different say : AUS 057 and NED 057. In this setup it is not very likely that we get many conflicts because of the combo numbers and nation code

-2- Well use the letter F in front of the orginal or new sailnumbers to identify the Formula 16. I most cases this identifies the different F16 main from the orginal OD class main as well. This way we won't have any conflict with any other class as well. Actually we use letters in Landyachting sails. Example : F304 (for a Taipan), F537 for a Stealth And F001 for my Typhoon. We could do this in combo with the nation codes : AUS F304, UK F357, NED F001

When a Taipan with number 030 joins the F16 class and say number 030 has already been given to a Blade than the last of the two to join the class needs to alter his sailnumber. He can either get the next number on the list or put an X behind it. The 3rd will get an Y and the 4th will get a Z. I don't think we'll ever get more conflicts than 4.

-3- We also could just have each brand start at 1 and work their way up. I know that the F18's don't seem to have any official policy regarding sailnumbers. I think they are scored by their brand and sailnumber. Something : Taipan 030 - Blade 030, Stealth 030 abbreviated to T030, B030 and S030. When a brand has to boats like the nacra Inter 18 and Nacra F18 then the abreviations become I030 and N030.

To be really honest I don't think many conflicts are expected at all, even at Texel we hardly get much conflicts when all sailnumbers of all classes are put together. Afterall only some 10-15 % of all the cats sold we'll ever be at a single venue. How big is the chance that two sailnumbers will conflict with participation ratios like that ?

-4- We could reserver the range 0-500 for Taipans (will keep them going for a while) the range 500 to 750 to Stealth and the range 750 to 1000 for the others.

Any more idea's will be welcomed

Wouter

As far as I know Spitfire started at 01. 03 was for sale in June. Neil had 011 and I own 044. Neil now owns 080. 125 sailed at the Europeans and I am pretty sure that all the numbers in between exist. Neil was complaining recently that sail number 110 was not omitted. Because of the transparent sails, this can be confused with the earlier sail number 011.
The Dart 16s started at 1600. Try that, it will be relevant for the first 99 Formula 16 cats at least.

Wouter,
I think Mosquito sail numbers are up to 3000.
Starting at 5000 provides room for further expansion for this class.
If sailors wish to use their own class number they can. If they wish to make sure they have a unique number they can apply for a sail number in the 5000 range.

REgards,
phill

Hi Guys,
Mosquito`s in SA have sail numbers ranging from 539 to 2020 currently. The "new" boats started at 2000, anything less than 2000 will as a result be old sails due for repacement soon, so we should only have sail numbers from 2000 upwards.
From what I`ve seen the latest Auzzie Mosquito`s are around 1700`s, which is why we started at 2000.

I think we`ll hardly ever see a number used twice, and only need to worry about it when we see both boats at the same event. Perhaps then the country`s initial could be used as a prefix, just my thoughts. Keep it simple.

Cheers
Steve

Hi Phill,
Thanks for the reply, have been away doing school holiday stuff, dieing to get back to working on Altered. I did manage to pick up the trampoline whilst away though.

The other replies also give food for thought. But I really can't see numbers clashing being a problem, surely it would be treated just like a mixed fleet. With any number clash being fixed by using the class insignia to differentiate between them. eg. Taipan 310, Mosquito 310, F16 310. So I am happy to go with whatever number you suggest. 5000 is OK by me. As for AUS. etc. I would like to see this on F16 sails but I think the class needs International status first , although I am not sure what this entails.

Hope you are going to Forster Wildcat Reggatta this weekend, can't believe I am not going after the impact the F16 Mossies had last year. Great to hear the Blade F18 is in the water, but from what I saw last year with the Capricorn it's results will have more to do with the crew work than the boat. The front runners are extremly well sorted and co-ordinated something that only time on the water can give them. By the way when I got back to Paynesville from Melbourne today I was surprised to find a Capricorn double decked ontop of a Taipan at the club. I assume it is Greg Goodall although he told me last Friday he was heading to Forster no surprise, must be going the longway? We have a VYC youth squad training camp in town at the moment hopefully he is teaching them something about cats.

Regards Gary.

>>>As for AUS. etc. I would like to see this on F16 sails but I think the class needs International status first , although I am not sure what this entails.

For starters it mean filling in an application form and pay some 3000 Euro's that are non-refundable when the whigs at ISAF don't feel like it granting international status to us.

We could probably make a succesful bit for international status on our boatnumbers and international spread, being on 4 continents as we are (USA, EU, Asia and AUS). Of course the South African F16 class is now the one-design mosquito spi class. Having said this I know there are standing opportunities for both the Blade F16 and Stealth F16 design to be made under license in regions like South Africa. We just need to find a builder willing to take the risk there. Same applies to regions like South-America (Brazil ? Argentina ?)

When we pass the ISAF test and fund the money we must rewrite our rule set so that the monohull-minded whigs at ISAF feel that they have earned their yearly retainers that we need to cough up annually. Than of course we sacrifize our freedom to hold ballots on rule adjust, must allow them veto power over our rules and write of any TV rights or other event earnings that may come with future succes.

All for what ? The right to not be harashed when we would a World Titles and to be forced to print the ISAF logo on everything we have. Than of course the ISAF whigs will again choose the H16 (but with spi) as the international youth class and pretty much forget all about us as long as we pay our annual fees.

Now I think we have some 80 boats in the F16 class now (more more F16 boats sold but by crew who never made contact with me) and some sailors willing to be more open about their spinnaker sailing then others and this means that everybody needs to cough up some 3000/80 = 40 Euro's the man annually to be able to maintain our International status. I rather use this fee for class promotion and sailor support.

It think it to be wise to put the international status a few years ahead in the future if we ever determine that we want it.

If have yet to see a good argument for acquiring international status. In basis we are already international wether some organisation agrees with us or not. Also once we have enough members to pay for the fees we have become succes already and don't really need international status anymore. Of course if anybody has a different view on it than I would really like to hear it.

Regards,

Wouter

>>Melbourne today I was surprised to find a Capricorn double decked ontop of a Taipan at the club.

maybe it is just me but wouldn't it be wiser to put the Taipan on top of the capricorn ? Or is this a test of the structural quality of the Taipan ?

(joke !)

Wouter

Re Capricorn ontop of Taipan,
Good one Wouter,

Don't worry there was plenty of steel supports in between.
I think the reason for having it on top has something to do with the width, though I won't put it in print here.
By the way it was Jim Boyer not Greg Goodall that was in town, although I didn't manage to catch up with him. He is on his way to Forster from what I heard second hand.

Also I agree that there is no need for International status at this stage.

Regards Gary.