Welcome Guest
Catamaran Sailing at TheBeachcats.com Logo
Notifications
Clear all

Gulfport Florida Regatta

163 Posts
15 Users
0 Reactions
133.9 K Views
(@Anonymous 12680)
Posts: 1113
 

How long are you going to be in LA? There are some upcoming events in the FL panhandle.


 
Posted : March 30, 2006 12:47 pm
(@Anonymous 38725)
Posts: 5859
 

Yeah...Gulfport, FLORIDA, which is a suburb of St. Pete, just west of Tampa. Long drive from LA.


 
Posted : March 30, 2006 1:42 pm
(@Anonymous 12203)
Posts: 434
 

I'm heading home (to the snow) on Sunday night. Guess I will just have to wait for next years Tradewinds.


 
Posted : March 30, 2006 2:06 pm
(@Anonymous 12680)
Posts: 1113
 

Looks like a good turnout at GYC, what a great clubs- super friendly people, big a$$ coolers of beer (most from European descent). My Blade has still not been in the water, but we've given her the dry land shake down. Looking forward to Sat Am and the first sail.


 
Posted : March 31, 2006 11:45 pm
 robi
(@robi)
Posts: 2686
Captain Registered
 

Looking foward to reading some reports.


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 3:08 am
(@wouter)
Posts: 9363
Three Star Admiral Registered
 

I wish the best of weather to both of you, Datchet F16 trainings weekend in UK and Gulport A-cat/F16 regatta in Florida !

Have fun guys !

Wouter


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 8:19 am
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 
Quote
. . . what a great club- super friendly people, . . .

I picked-up a membership app. I'm gonna join them, if they let me in!

I heard only compliments regarding the new Blade! Matt is really doing a great job with this boat!


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 8:39 am
(@wouter)
Posts: 9363
Three Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote
I heard only compliments regarding the new Blade! Matt is really doing a great job with this boat!

Matt and Gina have sailed the Blades for a year now, they must be getting dialed in both crew wise as tuning wise.

Wouter


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 9:14 am
(@Anonymous 38725)
Posts: 5859
 

Pete, if you get over there, could you please give us some updates? As I look out the window at the lake right now (8:38am) it is FLAT, like glass, which is really bad, it was blowing white caps every day for the past 4 days! They are on the coast so maybe they will get a seabreeze this afternoon, I hope! Got to go pack for Atlanta now...have fun!


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 9:16 am
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 

Timbo:

We actually drove up and back yesterday afternoon. Met some very nice people and got a good look at the boats.

I didn't think I could handle standing around on Saturday watching everybody else getting ready to sail!!

Gulfport has that funky, Key West feel to it, so my wife has committed to an overnighter for the first Saturday in May. We'll drive up Friday afternoon, sail Saturday and come home Saturday evening. It's an easy, fun trip for us.

Why don't you and your wife drive over for dinner? GYC has a couple of club boats, you could rent one for the day.


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 10:07 am
(@Anonymous 38725)
Posts: 5859
 

Yes, I'd like to do that. What weekend are you planing? If I have to travel 2 hours, I would like to travel to a regatta however. I can sail in my backyard anytime...there's wind that is. Today, nothing!


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 10:20 am
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 

I think GYC has scheduled club races the 1st and 3rd Saturdays each month. And they put on a little feed after, nothing fancy. It's my best opportunity to tune and practice against other boats. No one here to play with.


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 10:52 am
 robi
(@robi)
Posts: 2686
Captain Registered
 

Pete are you doing the sailing seminar in the Blade? The hogsbreath?

Any updates on the sailing at GYC?


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 12:44 pm
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 

No Blade! I'm teaming with PTP on his N 6.0. We will probably just do Saturday and then head home Sunday a.m.

I went up to GYC yesterday and there was already a lot of activity. People rigging boats, sharing a few brews. It promises to be an excellent time.

I'm sure we'll get some updates this evening.


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 3:25 pm
(@terryback)
Posts: 1209
Member
 

Went over in the morning to check out the "happenings". Read so much about it on this thread.

I concur about the remarks about the friendly people and Key West feel of Gulfport.

I stuck around for the first race and could only watch from the pier (with no binoculars) . I'm pretty sure Matt & Gina (Blade #707) took the first race in the F16 class.

Terry


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 4:24 pm
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 

So, what will you be sailing?


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 6:02 pm
(@terryback)
Posts: 1209
Member
 

I told Matt I'd be in next week to talk with him about a Blade. I've been out of sailing for some time. Previously solo'd on a H-17. Family interrupted the activity, but now my daughter is 17 and not interested in doing things with mom or dad. I've re-joined Fleet 45 and will (soon) sail with them. I'll need to learn alot, never sailed one-up with a spini' -- although it looks like a ton of fun (clearly the danger of a sudden pitch-pole).

Terry


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 7:13 pm
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 

Well, welcome to my world! Sailed a H17, solo, been away from beach cats for several years, never sailed under spinnaker.

I have to say I'm really impressed with the Blade. One thing I hadn't expected was the large, clean tramp. This will make it a very pleasant day boat for two.

I'm not sure this boat is all that pron to pitch-pole, think it has to be driven very hard to do that.


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 7:49 pm
(@Anonymous 12680)
Posts: 1113
 

Update..

First, the folks at GYC put one one stellar regatta. On time, great facilities and a lot of knowledgable people. Good spaghetti supper tonight and plenty of cold fresh ones.

8 F16s and 9 A's on the line. I do not know/recall the exact standings for A's but Cope is on top, with JLi in second (I think), see below for F16 scores.

Ation - wind building all day. First race light and shifty, last race trapped upwind all time time (I was uni and fully trapped up wind, the 2up configs were in and out on the second person). Great sailing location.

Results, as I recall:

1. Matt/Gina (fairly commanding lead, four bullets, I think)
2. Seth Stern/Kelly Gray (sorryfor the spelling)
3. Gordon Isco/crew (?) (sailing Jennifer Lindsay's Taipan)
4. Chuck/Mavis Harnden
5. Tom Shannon
6. Hollis Caffee
7. Taipan guy I have not met, yet. It is on my "to do" list for tomorrow.
8. Hans G - withdrew.

More to follow.

t


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 10:23 pm
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 

Way to go Tom!! You gotta be feeling pretty good! Thanks for the update.


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 10:28 pm
(@Anonymous 12680)
Posts: 1113
 

my thoughts on the first F16 event that I have attended...

1. Super nice people that are very accepting of strangers. Everyone I have meet (including the GYC folks) have been super friendly and helpful. I trailered in Friday at dusk and got tons of offers of help from the local cat fleet. Rates 10 on a "10 point" scale to me. No rigging the boat all by yourself, etc.

2. GYC is a nice, sheltered water location. Sea-breeze comes in at 1:00, etc. They have nice launch facility and community beach wheels (which is nice when you do not your own, yet).

3. Race 1: light air, we are moving ok - not drifting, but no trapping. Way too much mast rotation and finished 7 of 8 (ouch). The wing section mast is VERY sensitive to mast rotation angles. Course A/Gate/A/Finish.

4. Race 2: more wind, but still not much trapping. Less mast rotation pushes me first to round A mark (yippee), lose one boat downwind, stay in contention upwind and lose one more on the last downwind leg. Finish 3rd but close on the heels of the lead pack. Course A/Gate/A/Finish.

5. Race 3: Wind starts to pick up so that uni's are trapped and doubles are in/out. Matt and Gina crank it up. Upwind legs are close, but M/G pull away downwind - every freaking time. 2,3,4,5 are all close together - but M/G have a big split. Course A/Gate/A/Finish.

6. Race 4: More of the same: close upwind legs, M/G pull away downwind. Close fleet for 2,3,4,5 place. Course A/Gate/A/Gate/A/Finish.

I am very pleased with how the boat sails and is put together. Everything work like it should and I do not see an major overhauls needed. Matt puts high end components on the boat and it sails well. I still need to dial in the diamond wires and mast rake (quite a bit weather helm, but the boat was probably set up for doublehanding).

Singlehanded with Spi is a pure treat. I was very conservative today and sailed deeper than most, but heated it up when it felt good. As usual, the downind legs are crucial - experience with Spin comes highly recommended.

F16's are really fun boats and the fleet racing is tight - lots of fun.

Hope to do better tomorrow.

t


 
Posted : April 1, 2006 10:58 pm
(@wouter)
Posts: 9363
Three Star Admiral Registered
 

Could the unknown cat sailor be Fred Metcalf or Micheal Coffman ?

A go fast tip. In very light winds and big wind. Flat is fast with the superwing mast. In both sail with little mastrotation and a really tight downhaul. Mainsheet should be rather slack in the very light stuff (sailing with significant twist) and tight in the big winds. It will feel like you are sailing underpowered but it is actually faster then when sailing with a powered up feel. You must look to get the boat "streaming". Sometimes the required trim for this to happen feels counteractive, like depowering the rig further when you are feeling you are lacking grunt and others are passing you. For some reason you'll feel more underpowered but speed up anyway.

Welcome to wonderous world of wing mast sailing (A-cats, F16's and Capricorn F18)

How are the Datchet boys doing at their trainings weekend. James did you get a test sail on the Stealth F16's, your report ?

Wouter


 
Posted : April 2, 2006 6:16 am
(@Anonymous 13024)
Posts: 4319
 

You forgot to tell him why this is so Wouter
I am a great believer in knowing why some settings are fast, instead of just know that it works.

A flat airfoil has less drag than one with more draft. In light winds the lift to drag ratio for a flat airfoil results in a larger vector forwards than a deep one. When the wind picks up, the ratio between lift to drag from the deeper airfoil makes a better resultant vector forwards. At least, this is my understanding of it.


 
Posted : April 2, 2006 6:34 am
(@wouter)
Posts: 9363
Three Star Admiral Registered
 

Big wind = easy to explain. You got to much power and you need to loose it in an efficient manner. Flat sails have a higher lift to drag ratio because by flattening your reduce drag more then you reduce lift. Both are reduced at the same time but drag is reduced alot more. So the boat feels LESS power-up but you get a better net drive and hence you go faster.

Very little wind = The sail is often to wide (cord) with respect to the energy enclosed in the movement of air particles; this means that the flow (particles) detaches from the mainsail before it (they) has reached the leech. This is when the sail is kept with a full draft, something many sailors believe they should have as to gain maximum drive. In effect the particles have insufficient momentum to follow a significant curve in the sail (draft) and they detach themselfs = stalling of the mainsail. This adds ALOT of drag. Now by reducing the draft sufficiently the particles will be able to follow the full curvature all the way to the leech without "stalling". The mainsail is now streaming again. This will again both reduce lift and drag but by reducing the drag ALOT more thus the net drive is increased and you'll go faster as a direct result.

The twist in the leech of the main in very light airs is because in these conditions the windspeed in the first 10 mtr of the ground will show a significant offsets in speeds. The resulting direction of the apparent wind flow at ground level can easily be 20 to 30 degrees more along the centreline then at the top of the mast. If you sail without any twist then either the top of your sail has stalled or the bottom of the sail has been completely weathervaned. Solution, sail with a significant amount of twist.

Typically sail with 200-300 mm twist along the leech on a F16 in nearly all conditions (Advice by Glenn Ashby with respect to modern LARGE squaretop sails). My experience is that you significantly want to increase that in the really light winds. Now the only way to get this twist profile and still have a flat mainsail (little draft) is to derotate your mast and really crank on the downhaul.

On the Blade/Stealth F16 you also want to lift your luff hull clear of the water by doing the wildthing. Taipans are more forgiving in the respect and it doesn't hurt then to much when part of the luff hull is still in contact. However, doing the wildthing on the Taipan really helps as well. Why, it reduces the total wetted surface area by something like 15 - 25 %; this can easily translate into 7% to 10 % more speed. And that is the difference between winning and finshing mid fleet in very light winds.

In light winds you have to keep moving all the time ! Getting up to speed is more difficult then maintaining speed.

One race last year. I was 200 mtr back of a pack of 4 I-20's and 5 F18's in such conditions. I did all the above and coached my boat gentle up to speed. I overtook all boats ahead of me except 1 F18 and I sailed through all the lee sides (wind shadows !) to reach the finish 50 to 150 mtr ahead. Best laugh I ever had; you should have seen their faces. They still claim I had my personal gust (for nearly 400 mtr and nearly 3 minutes while passing the others only 20 mtr downwind !)

I know it was the sail trim, because I knew exactly when I started to really move and what preceded it. I had cranked on alot of downhaul and this allowed me to slacken the mainsail to introduce alot more leech twist while maintaining a shallow draft.

Hope this helps

Wouter


 
Posted : April 2, 2006 7:18 am
(@Anonymous 13024)
Posts: 4319
 

Excellent Wouter! This thread is about to be hijacked..

Attached is a drawing from a book by David Houghton, Wind Strategy - Fernhurst, giving some values for wind shear. I found it most interesting to see how wind direction changes according to what type if wind you have. No wonder a oversheeted mainsail is slow.

One point about twist. While not overpowered and sailing in chop/waves, it's still faster with twist than without even if it by the theory should not be. One theory I heard about this was that as the boat pitches in the waves, the angle of attack changes. Makes sense to me..


 
Posted : April 2, 2006 8:35 am
(@wouter)
Posts: 9363
Three Star Admiral Registered
 

I was contacted by a very friendly fellow who had his camera with him during the racing. It seems he has a great number of pictures of all boats. Later this week I will get them all. Both F16's and A-cats.

The first samples can be found here :

http://www.f16.beasts.org/

In the gallery under "events 2006" and then "gulfport A-cat/F16 regatta 2006)

The full resolution scans are available for downloading on the very same site. Just click on the higher resolution link above the pictures itself. Guys with internet explorer can best use the following direct link :

http://f16.beasts.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=865

The hi-res pictures will not be cropped in halve then.

Now we want some more race reports !

Wouter


 
Posted : April 2, 2006 9:43 pm
(@Anonymous 12680)
Posts: 1113
 

Beautiful sunny, light air day in Gulfport today. Short postponement to wait for some breeze. Three races in building breeze, not any trapeze weather.

Matt and Gina had two 3rds and a 2nd (I think) to take home the gold. Gordon was second and Seth/Kelly 3rd. Not a lot of reporting - no big splashes, collisions, protests, etc... Good tight racing on a right hand favored course.

Seth and Hollis port tacked the fleet in race 1.

Matt, Hollis and I were over early in race three. After clearing the start line the top gudgeon/pintle jumped free and put a small twist in the lower gudgeon/pintle. I took a DNF in race three, as I coud not get the rudder back on while on the water. Turns out Seth/Kelly edged me by one point for third. Maybe next time...

The rest of the finishers were: Shannon, Harnden, Caffee, Fred?

BTW, making the main flat (less rotation, more outhaul, firm downhaul and mainsheet) really works in light air. I also found the culprit for my oppressive weather helm. A smidgeon of pigtail from the stopper knot in the rudder was sticking out (on both rudders) which did not allow me to fully lower the rudders. Once we retied/stuffed them in the hole further - they went down another two inches or so.

Woody, Rush and Jennifer were the top 3 in the A Class fleet.


 
Posted : April 3, 2006 12:40 am
(@wouter)
Posts: 9363
Three Star Admiral Registered
 

A-cat fleet :

-1- Woody Cope
-2- Rush Bird
-3- Jennifer Lindsay

F16's (7 races in total)

-1- Matt and Gina McDonald
-2- Gordon Isco, Mike Hagan
-3- Seth Stern, Kelly Gray
-4- Tom Shannon [color] (first time on boat !)
-5- Chuck and Mavis Harnden
-6- Hollis Caffee
-7- Fred Metcalf, Michael Coffman
-8- Hans Geissler

Quote
BTW, making the main flat (less rotation, more outhaul, firm downhaul and mainsheet) really works in light air.

Indeed, you have just entered on a path of discovery with the superwing mast. In the beginning learn that when you think you are going reasonably well that you should be able to go much faster still. Many new sailors to the Superwing mast have to take this mental hurdle. Then whe you really start looking you'll find different grooves and speed up the boat by 10 to 20 % easily. These discoveries are Great fun !

Wouter


 
Posted : April 3, 2006 9:03 am
(@Anonymous 38144)
Posts: 201
 
Quote

Big wind = easy to explain. You got to much power and you need to loose it in an efficient manner. Flat sails have a higher lift to drag ratio because by flattening your reduce drag more then you reduce lift. Both are reduced at the same time but drag is reduced alot more. So the boat feels LESS power-up but you get a better net drive and hence you go faster.

Very little wind = The sail is often to wide (cord) with respect to the energy enclosed in the movement of air particles; this means that the flow (particles) detaches from the mainsail before it (they) has reached the leech. This is when the sail is kept with a full draft, something many sailors believe they should have as to gain maximum drive. In effect the particles have insufficient momentum to follow a significant curve in the sail (draft) and they detach themselfs = stalling of the mainsail. This adds ALOT of drag. Now by reducing the draft sufficiently the particles will be able to follow the full curvature all the way to the leech without "stalling". The mainsail is now streaming again. This will again both reduce lift and drag but by reducing the drag ALOT more thus the net drive is increased and you'll go faster as a direct result.

The twist in the leech of the main in very light airs is because in these conditions the windspeed in the first 10 mtr of the ground will show a significant offsets in speeds. The resulting direction of the apparent wind flow at ground level can easily be 20 to 30 degrees more along the centreline then at the top of the mast. If you sail without any twist then either the top of your sail has stalled or the bottom of the sail has been completely weathervaned. Solution, sail with a significant amount of twist.

Typically sail with 200-300 mm twist along the leech on a F16 in nearly all conditions (Advice by Glenn Ashby with respect to modern LARGE squaretop sails). My experience is that you significantly want to increase that in the really light winds. Now the only way to get this twist profile and still have a flat mainsail (little draft) is to derotate your mast and really crank on the downhaul.

On the Blade/Stealth F16 you also want to lift your luff hull clear of the water by doing the wildthing. Taipans are more forgiving in the respect and it doesn't hurt then to much when part of the luff hull is still in contact. However, doing the wildthing on the Taipan really helps as well. Why, it reduces the total wetted surface area by something like 15 - 25 %; this can easily translate into 7% to 10 % more speed. And that is the difference between winning and finshing mid fleet in very light winds.

In light winds you have to keep moving all the time ! Getting up to speed is more difficult then maintaining speed.

One race last year. I was 200 mtr back of a pack of 4 I-20's and 5 F18's in such conditions. I did all the above and coached my boat gentle up to speed. I overtook all boats ahead of me except 1 F18 and I sailed through all the lee sides (wind shadows !) to reach the finish 50 to 150 mtr ahead. Best laugh I ever had; you should have seen their faces. They still claim I had my personal gust (for nearly 400 mtr and nearly 3 minutes while passing the others only 20 mtr downwind !)

I know it was the sail trim, because I knew exactly when I started to really move and what preceded it. I had cranked on alot of downhaul and this allowed me to slacken the mainsail to introduce alot more leech twist while maintaining a shallow draft.

Hope this helps

Wouter

The advice conveyed in this post is equivalent to about a season and a half of trial and error light air racing w/ the Superwing mast... Nearly all of the settings and advice I gleened from non-superwingers over the last two seasons was just wrong / slow... This should be a topic all it's own - it's that dead on...

PK


 
Posted : April 3, 2006 1:20 pm
(@Anonymous 12680)
Posts: 1113
 
Quote
The advice conveyed in this post is equivalent to about a season and a half of trial and error light air racing w/ the Superwing mast... Nearly all of the settings and advice I gleened from non-superwingers over the last two seasons was just wrong / slow... This should be a topic all it's own - it's that dead on...

PK

Indeed, the short version I got Saturday night helped a lot. Much more boat speed upwind in the light stuff on Sunday. Results were first, first and DNF (over early/steerage problems sent me home early) for the three races Sunday.

THANKS.


 
Posted : April 3, 2006 3:47 pm
Page 5 / 6
Secret Link