No Stephen, you have been beating this dead horse for 4 years now. I can't count how many times you've hinted that you would buy a F16 for yourself but eventually didn't.
4 years ago, I was an F18 sailor preparing for the 07 Worlds with no intentions of owning an F16. 2008, I finally sold my Capricorn sailing on OP boats whislt I get married and build a house. With as little as weeks left on the house, I will know how many $$$$ I will have in the kitty to buy another boat. I am looking at a 4.9 with kite, If I have a little more $$$$, then it will be a Viper. To be honest, if there is a few more extra $$$$ left over, then it will be an A Class, because that is where the larger fleets and more competitive racing lies, particularly in the state I live.
And this is where our view differs. I am sorry you believe this. <img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" />
I, as one of the original
Gang of Three
, that came up with the concept and started this class, can attest to Mark's racing on the BIM in Michigan when I brought up my 4.9 uni. In fact, that was the only time I had actually seen the boat and may have been the last time it was raced or heard from?
Kirt
I too confirm Marks claim to sailing the Bim.
We discussed it at length at the time, especially the differences between it and the Taipan.
Indeed, some F16 class rules were changed partly because of the input by Mark.
Wouter
so why is a F18 so stupidly heavy?
My 2cents...
Don't underestimate the gains to be achieved through stiffness! I think Wouter's earlier estimates of a minute over an hour are probably too conservative by far!
My reasoning: On my windsurfer, I have two 30cm fins which are almost identical in chord, profile and plan, but one is noticeably stiffer (I can feel it flex maybe 5mm when I push with all my strength, whilst the other feels like a brick!). That might not seem much, but it's enough to get me planing in almost 3 knots of wind speed earlier (11 as opposed to 14 knots) OR get me going in 15 knots with a sail that is almost 1 sqm smaller (6.0sqm vs 6.9sqm).
That is a HUGE difference from one small fin. These results are consistent over the 4 years I had both fins, always using the same anemometer and board. Sure, fins aren't the same as hulls/platform, but you get my point.
Sorry don't get your point at all, foils and stiffness of foils is a completely different issue than what we are speaking about.
no its not, it has everything to do with how the boat as a whole deals with forces.
If a platform flexes or a foil flexes, you are not utilising the energy as efficiently as a very stiff platform or foil.
Not only that but in the case of the foil on a windsurfer, you are losing your latteral resistance with every 'flex'. That's the reason the Hobie guys started buying the stiff EVO rudders.
Maybe I'm way off the mark, but my point was, don't underestimate the gains achievable though stiffening. Around 5mm of flex in a 30cm fin (~1.5%) when I was trying as hard as I could is still pretty stiff, but going to a rock hard fin still made a big difference.
An interesting read about developments in the A class fleet with reference to the DNA.
http:/
First, as much as I can tell from pictures, some line drawings etc, it appears to me that the hullshape is very different from what we are used to seeing.There are 2 factors to this. First is underwater shape, which has more volume than, say, a flyer and means the boat should be able to be pushed harder downwind. But the real difference is that the hulls seem very big, with lots of topsides and beam. This plays into one of the things I believe is really important. The whole platform is designed to be incredibly stiff. They have paid a lot of attention to this. The boat is pre-preg carbon-nomex. By having a large hull, that lends itself to good strength. Then they have spent a lot of effort in how the beams attach to the hulls. Again, this is something seen with the Nikita but which i think most boats have an issue with.
I have commented before on my suprise as to how much twist you get on most of the top platforms (at least the ones I have checked!). It is interesting that Bob Baier commented in a recent interview, saying
So, yet again, we see many variables add up to what appears to be a great package. The real question is which element has the biggest impact. I am convinced by the need for a stiff platform when using any foils designed to give lift and I expect platform stiffness to become a major theme going forward. When I commented before that I thought we would see hullshapes develop to go with curved foils, I had thought we would see thinner hulls relying on the foils to keep them out of trouble. The DNA seems to go the other way - fatter hulls that are safe when needed but whichhave foils to lift and therefore improve hullshape in other conditions.
Then there is the issue of what shape the actual c foils are and in that regard, we have no idea how they compare with what is out there at the moment. This is where it is going to get fun. Somebody needs to take a single platform/rig and compare all the foils. Of course, as suggested above, that will only work for foils of the same type as the position of assy foils would probably by different from symetrical ones. For instance, at the moment there are at least 3 curved foils I would like to try in my boat, but I cannot afford it!
The final thing of note for me is that the DNA has a really good way of adjusting the amount of lift from the curved boards![[Linked Image]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hx_PDjqiVq0/S8wCgfddB6I/AAAAAAAAThs/1GZmV3ebhPM/s400/MJC_2385.jpg)
While it does still need to be set up properly, it does seem to make a lot of sense. All that's missing is a few numbers next to the case so one can start building a picture of what is going on.
Adjustable angle off attack on the boards, how cool is that?
YES - 1 more thing to have set wrong on your boat <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />
Good to experiment with though, particularly if you are not sure if they are at the right angle of attack for the conditions. Fixed cases = 1 option.
Pops up every couple of year, never breaks through.
How is a person called who doesn't learn form mistakes in the past?
Persistent.
Depends if you ever figure it out. Thomas Edison failed at making the lightbulb, (I think), over 1000 times.
Ok but Edison was looking for the bigger picture. He wanted to make electrical light and was looking for the technical solution. The reason why adjustable boards fail, is because people just look to make things different or adjustable boards for the reason of adjustable boards. If you look how to make your boat faster you will come up with good ideas.
By the way there is still a huge potential in board design, if I look at the current
state of the art
at beach cats...
Cheers,
Klaus