Taipan uni w/ spi tacked at bow photos-

Another photo-

Another-

Last one!

How about something like the Marstrom snail launcher to snuff it:

http://www.marstrom.com/images/Batar/M20/MARSTROM-20--2710.jpg

>>Amazing how much faster the boat is with the chute up, even in light air.

Hands down !

I'll bet that DCC rekindled your need for some spinnaker sailing , ehhh, Kirt !

On Flyer - F16 comparison. At the beginning of our season I sailed with Geert in a race series and one day in about 6 knots of wind we encountered Tjibbe Veelo (a respected sailor and past Texel winner on his A) on the downwind legs a few times. He on his flyer singlehanded we with 160 kg on the Taipan spi. The one that wasn't trimmed out like it was after the first days at the DCC. We stacked up quite nicely. We had the same speed in wind so below 5 knots and when the spi filled properly at a little more wind we passed him on walked away. Imagine of either one of us had ben solo sailing the Taipan.

It is definately faster downwind under spinnaker.

I'm watching your develpment closely.

Wouter

Twice this summer I ended up sailing uni with spin in fleets with A-cats. They killed us upwind, but downwind we easily made up for the lost ground, especially in conditions under 16-18, both by better downwind speed and much deeper angles. Around a W-L course, A vs F16 uni would be a pretty even match.

Kirt,
I know this may be a bit of a pain but have you tried to
trim the spinnaker with the tack pulled over to the windward bow.
Seems to me like you may get a greater forward component in the drive being generated.

If you have I would be interested to here what you felt as the difference.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Phill

Kirt,

Is this the standard Taipan kite?

In light air it probably does not matter much, but the cut of the sail is designed to be located much farther forward to provide lift and keep from driving the hulls in a blow.

This is a cool idea though to help eliminate some of the hardware in set up for the fun quick sailing experience. It might be worth it to have a sail designer modify the cut to provide some lift with the shorter tack and be able to go out in more of a blow. In some conditions this may even be the prefered set-up.

Fun either way,

Matt

Kirt emailed me and said Goodall is making him a custom spinnaker as we speak just for his new arrangement. It will be flatter, taller, and narrower, I believe.

Hi all,
Hate to say it but this has all been done before, a 23foot cat I bought years ago had this type of system on it, so did many other small cats with cabins I have seen. They mostly had it set up so it could be held in the middle or pulled to windward.

The disadvantages I found with it was difficulty in controlling luff tension on the kite. OK for cruising but from a performance point of view not good. With the tack at the leeward bow, couldn't this allow the leech to end up to windward of the luff when sheeted in causing the side loads to be greater than the forward drive?

I know I am a total racing nut and you may be looking for something else. But in my experience the extra weight and windage of a pole and chute have little effect compared to the time advantages of a quick set and drop. As the speed advantage while the kite is drawing is enormous.
Last season travelling with the Mosquito cats the Taipans we came up against couldn't believe how quick we were upwind with all the gear on, as they had taken their spin gear off believing it slowed them down to much. On a number of occasions we raced with spin gear on against mossies we raced at Titles without the gear and the difference was not measurable.
The biggest thing I found that affected your windward performance with the gear on was thinking about it and your downwind sailing while you were sailing upwind. Once you left the gear on full time and became as comfortable with it as the rest of the boat you concentrated on your upwind and peformed as normal.

Regards Gary.

Personally I agree it is largely a mindset problem although some drawback is reported to be present on the upwind legs.

However as gary says, for that Drawback you got a HUGE boost downwind making you way faster around the whole course. I my opinion some people are making to much of their "8th or so around the first weather mark while I usually was 3rd". Position at the weather mark doesn't count in a race at all. Everthing is determined by the order on the finishline. OF course what they don't say is how they are first at the leeward marks after having set the spis in a fleet of spi less boats. Overhere we found that even on handicap you have a hard time winning over spi boats. Simply because they are just that much faster. More than ones I just punched through the lee of a spi-less boat because the speed difference (momentum) is just that big. Simple put there is no covering a spinnaker equiped boat UNLESS you fly a spi yourself. Therefor you position at the windward mark with respect to non spi boat is neglectable.

The way I see it there is one other aspect left that is used "against" the kite by non-spi sailors and that is the setup time of the spi gear. I'm currently working on that as I want to race more around the country next year and I'm always late.

Right now. I can take my whole spi gear apart and put it on the boat in a very short timespan. I haven't measured how much but singlehanded it should be doable in less than 3 minutes or less.

This is how it works.

-1- I assume the rest of the boat is setup as we are talking additional time of setting up the spi gear and not the time needed to step the mast and fit the trapeze lines.

-2- The ratchet blocks to the sidestays chainplates are premanently fixed and never come off. I have Riley autoracthets here and they are very suitable to that job. The plastic is off better quality than ronstand and the racthet mechanism is fully exposed meaning that if can be unstock with a little water very quickly. They are also very much cheaper than the Ronstan (65 %) and Harken (less than halve) gear so replacing these every few season is not biggy. (no time spend here)

-3- The second set of autoratchets blocks come of with a quick release setup. Some 100 mm on the inside of the hulls and about 30 mm of the mainbeam I have two grommets in my trampoline. I have two pieces of line with a loop on one end and a beat on the other. Between these I have some 300 mm of single line. I put the loop throught the grommet from underneath the trampoline and then through the eye of the autoratchets. I then loop the end with the beat over the mainbeam and push the beat throught he little loop at the other end. SNAP ! this autoratchet is fixed and won't come off. (20 seconds for both sides) Okay at one afternoon you need to adjust the length of the loop but even that didn't take me more then 5 minutes. There is a trick to bowline knots that lets you adjust these very easily without undoing the knot completely. Fitted these two extra autoratchets takes me about 20 second for both sides.

-4- Run the spi sheet through the 4 ratchet blocks = about 20 seconds. The block and spi sheet takes a total of 40 seconds.

-5- Grap the spi pole with the snuffer permanently attached. Shove it over the pin at the mastbase OR rest it on the bea while the forward end rests on the ground. Now I have 4 pieces of line with a loop on one end. Two of these have a bowline on the other end and the other two have a figure 8 knot there. First the shorter lines with the figure 8 knot. I loop both their loops around the spi pole (right in front of my bridle strut) and pull the linse through their own loops. Both are now attached to the spi pole (20 seconds) Now I take the figure 8 knot end and push this through the tangs near the bridle chainplates than I loop it once underneath itself and pull the knot tight. The figure 8 not at the end prevents the hitch from undoing itself as long as this line remains under tension while sailing. I tdo the same for the other side (again 20 seconds). Then to the tip of the pole. I fit the loops to the pole here in the same way as the others. Than I fit the other ends to the tips of the hulls as show in the attached picture. (adding 40 seconds to the total). Than I lift the pole up putting all the lines under mild pretension and fix the bridle strut to the bridle intersection. The pole is not fixed (another 20 seconds again) = total to fit the pole = 100 seconds

-6- I run a line runing through my snuffer sock when I take out the retrieval line after I took the boat apart. I use this line to pull the retrieval line back through the snuffer sock again. (20 seconds)

-7- I store my spinnaker in my spi bag in such a way that the little line attached to the top patch runs through all the patches and keeps them in line. My spi (after drying )is stored in the bag in the same way as it sits in the snuffer sock only it is curled up to fit in the bag. I take the spi out and put it under my left armpit while I hold the line with the patches. I grap between the sheets of spinnaker cloth to the top patch. This is actually quite easy with the spi bundled up like this and when you know to start to work your way in from the leech or luff (never from the foot). This way it only takes a few seconds to get hold of the line at the top patch. While holding it with left hand I I run the real retrieval line through the aligned patches and throught the bead, tying it off to the line at the top patch with a figure 8 knot. (40 seconds) Then I pull the spi in the snuffer straight away. As it is already folded as it should be it will go right in. (20 seconds) I do not pull it in fully but let the last 500 mm hang out. Note that this lets the tack, top and clew of the spi hang out of the snuffer !

-8- I know attach the halyards to the tack and top first and then I attach the sheet to the tack. If you pull the halyards a little bit tight first before attaching the sheets than you can never tie it on the wrong way. This way you are also sure that the retrieval line, sheet and halyard line will never have been looped around eachother. (40 seconds)

-9- I now pull the spi completely in the snuffer and the spi setup is ready to go. (total setup from scratch time = about 240 seconds - 3 min when working actively but without any haste)

With two people you should be able to fit the stuff in under 2 min.

Also the technic with the knots will always set up the pole to the exacte same position as the times before. There is no trimming or finetuning involded. Also no stainless or alu fittings are used only line and plastic beads. This of course weights next to nothing and is easily replaced after a few seasons of weather wearing down the components.

Therefor it is fast, fully effective, lightweight and cheap !

What more can you ask for.

In my case I want to sail solo without the pole from time to time (as an A-cat) especially during evenings after work as our summer evenings have daylight till 10 pm. And I can now take off the pole and snuffer and put it in the trailer or shed within (seriously) 30 seconds. Than use another 120 seconds to put the main up fit the mainsheet blocks and go sailing.

I do still need to fit the snap on system on my rudders though. Fitting those little rings takes the most time on my boat right now. Easily 1 or 2 minutes.

See attachments in the next posts

So many times I wonder why people will hang themselfs up on issues like this and not choose to spend some time working out some better faster ways of doing things. Sure in the beginning it took me over 10 minutes to fit the spinnaker as well but I knew from the beginning that when given some time and effort I could get it down to only a few minutes or even less than that (when being helped by your crew). This is principle is also a mindset issue

Wouter

Wouter

The little line of the top patch allows the spi to go into the snuffer a little bit easier as it allows the spi to spread out a little. I'm currently only using some 100 mm or 4 inches of it. Greg Goodall said he found now uses the same length on the Capricorn F18 as well. It seems that longer has no serious gains while forcing longer socks to be used and shorter makes snuffing a little bit harder. Besides this system allows quick and easy hooking up of the spi to the retrieval line. I do run a little differently as couldn't get my 4mm retrieval line and the 3 mm top line to go through bead easily enough. So I have a very small bowline loop in the top line and run my 4 mm retrieval lien through the bead (and not the top line) than run it trhough the little loop and tie a figure 8 knot in the end. This figure 8 knot it then to large to pass back through the loop. Now I shove the bead over the loop and figure 8 knot and it jams the knots into place there.

How ever you can use a larger bead and do it the AHPC way.

Wouter

Wouter

In the next three posts you'll see the three picture of the quick release of the ratchet blocks that are fixed to the mainbeam.

later today I will try to make a pic of the system fitted to the boat.

But for clearification. These block rest on the trampoline while the force is transmitted through the lines to the mainbeam itself. I have two small grommets in my trampoline about 100 insides of the hulls and about 30 mm to the rear of the mainbeam. In the third picture, showing a piece of mast section as replacement of the mainbeam you must imagine that the trampoline and grommet ar between the shackle of the ratchet block and the bead on the right hand side.

If you are really insecure that the bead can be run through the loop a second time and be completely stuck. However up till now this system has never undone itself yet. Nor is it likely to do so because I made the loop relatively tight and the elasticity of the trampoline allows it to be fitted and also pulls the loop tight even when there is no tension on the sheet or block itself.

I'm quite happy with this system.

Wouter

wouter

Wouter

Wouter

wouter

You can seen the permanently fixed black Riley blocks at the sidestays. These are also automatic.

Don't pay to much attention to the other lines. There are there to tie the boat down, inmobilize the mast or are part of the downhaul system that takes out any slack in the line. More about that system when I get it to work properly.

Wouter

Phill-
At Greg's suggestion I tried this out this weekend. First observation- it's a PITA to rig it this way- You have to adjust the luff after every jibe (along with the usual jibing stuff). Second observation- You have to really have a loose luff to get it to weather and if you then want it tighter you have to readjust the halyard.
More importantly to me was how it sailed - and it sort of confirmed my (surprising) conclusions based on previous sailing of the spi tacked on the leeward bow - In very light air it seemed fine, in fact almost like a Symmetric spi on a keelboat - had to float the clew out pretty far and it would fly fine. Problem was as soon as the breeze came up or I tried to "heat it up" the apparent wind went way forward - If I steered to keep the spi drawing the main was totally stalled - even with the traveler all the way down! So I COULD go deep - slowly- when I released the windward tack line and let the tack go to leeward I actually had to travel the main up and they were both drawing well with much greater speed which I could then carry down. So I switched back to my original system-
I also tried the "big" kite (21sqm) this way and it's just too much - probably too full with too much overlap.
On the comments about "mindset" - I slightly agree- but from my experience on "A"'s I do know how much windage upwind can affect one boat vs another and there is no way a boat with a pole sticking out the front can not have more windage going to weather than one without.
On the comments of quick to rig- I launch off a trailer that will not accomodate my pole - I launch at a ramp and it's a PITA to rig the pole once the boat is in the water. I've tried the "tricks" to speed pole rigging (remember Wouter- I put my second autoratchet blocks on sail slugs and would just slide them into the front beam rear track?).
This still isn't a prefect system as I would like to rig up a snuffer system for it - something like a "snail" might be nice or a short pole w/ snuffer mouth just forward of the front beam.
As for the comments on this being done before, as mentioned I remembered this from some of the old Worrell races. Last night I reviewed some of my old Worrell tapes and it was interesting - in 1985 Randy Smyth had a reacher and spi tacked at the bow and in most of the pics where I could tell it appeared to be no higher than mid bow and at the end of the 1000 miles they showed it about 4" to weather of the leeward bow. So I'm not claiming to have "invented" anything, and I agree on the "loose" tack- but it seemed to be about the right tension and the wind keeps it blown to leeward- so the more the wind blows it to leeward the tighter you sheet (which wants to move it to windward). I have separate tack and halyard lines right now and this may not work with a "one line" system - haven't tried that yet.
Anyway, I'm putting my money where my idea is and should be getting my new chute sometime soon.
As to the clew being to weather of the tack - this doesn't happen in my experience because the closest the tack can get to the leeward bow is about 3-4" so it's close but not to weather.
I hear a lot of people "knocking" this idea but heck, it's my "stock" 17sqm chute so it's not hard to just try it out-
Just think, if it "works" you don't have to buy or carry a pole around with the attendant weight and complexity, all it requires on a "stock" uni Taipan is the spi halyard attachment point, a cleat on the main beam and a swivel cleat at the bottom of the mast plus spi and spi bag, a halyard, a small block with becket and a small bullet block, two "stoppers" and you can have spi fun all you want!
Remember also, this is for a uni Taipan, this may not work well or at all with a jib- I am also looking forward to the longer luff-

Kirt

Kirt,

You are right. It is no good knocking something before it has been trully tried.

I do remember your slides, indeed. My post about the quick rigging was more intended for the new sailors and the sailors looking to go to a kite than as a (negative) comment on your system. I'm sorry if it came a cross like that. I also assumed you take of the boat of your trailer putting it on it dolly and rest the sterns on their foam protection blocks. Like this setting up the spi whould be easy enoug. I didn't realize you put the boat in the water straight of the road trailer.

Also I agree their is windage upwind it would be illogical any other way. On the other hand I agree with Gary that campared to the overall windage of the hulls (!), induce drag of the sails and the person sailing the boat the snuffer can never a huge drawback with respect to windage. It is definately a (noticable) factor but limited just the same. I wonder myself wether just accepting this and get focussed on sailing fast isn't the better way to gain speed. Having said this your system appears to offer a win-win situation. Especially when ease of rigging and "get quickly out on the water fast" is a major concern. The spi pole is indeed more complex than your system.

Besides anything to get on the water and go quickly right ?

Please continue, I find the experiences you gain to be very entligting. Especially about backwinding the main. This sor of takes care of the idea of jibing poles! Another thing we can now leave open in the rules as now quick gain can be made there.

Thank you for keeping us informed.

Wouter