Welcome Guest
Catamaran Sailing at TheBeachcats.com Logo
Notifications
Clear all

uni v sloop rating

13 Posts
4 Users
0 Reactions
4,848 Views
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
Topic starter
 
[#20762]

Should they be the same?

I'm particularly interested in hearing from Hans. Dude! You're a rock star! S-P-E-A-K!!! <img src=

alt=

/>


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 8:30 am
PTP
 PTP
(@CaptainPP)
Posts: 2684
Captain Registered
 

I figured that the boat was faster 2-up... but with Hans' performance at the worlds I could be wrong. It isn't like he was sailing against a bunch of slackers! The boat feels faster to me 2-up but that is probably a pointing issue more than anything else.
I think we would have to do a test. 2-up for one W/L lap then a sudden quick release jib drop and eject the crew and jib into the water for the second lap. Take the times and then we have our answer <img src=

alt=

/>


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 8:47 am
scooby_simon
(@simonJlongstaff)
Posts: 3496
Captain Registered
 
Quote
I figured that the boat was faster 2-up... but with Hans' performance at the worlds I could be wrong. It isn't like he was sailing against a bunch of slackers! The boat feels faster to me 2-up but that is probably a pointing issue more than anything else.
I think we would have to do a test. 2-up for one W/L lap then a sudden quick release jib drop and eject the crew and jib into the water for the second lap. Take the times and then we have our answer <img src=

alt=

/>

We

the SCHRS management group (of which I am chair) have done a fair bit of work on this and we believe that overall the single handed boat is faster (hence why the ratings are 0.994 verses 1.020), but we also believe that in the big stuff the 2 up boats will be faster (more hands, more Righting Moment) - Thus making Han's performance at the GC even more impressive !


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 9:06 am
(@Anonymous 12680)
Posts: 1113
 

Depends on the conditions and the sailor.

In general, I think 1-up is faster in milder conditions. 2-up becomes faster as the conditions get stronger. The point at which 2-up is faster depends on the ability of the 1-up sailor to handle the conditions (wind and waves).

Example: I can only handle wind ranges of 12-15 to be competitive 1-up, but Hans can handle wind ranges of 20-25 and be competitive.

PTP, is pointing an issue 1-up because you have no jib? It is certainly easier to sail upwind with a jib. It may not be the sail configuration, but comfort level and tuning.


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 9:35 am
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
Topic starter
 
Quote
Depends on the conditions and the sailor.

n-o-o-o-o. The question is about the rating. Should they be the same? We are seeking a constant with which the veriables can compare.


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 9:45 am
Matt M
(@matt-m)
Posts: 686
Member
 

You guys really need to get out and start sailing, if nothing more than to generate the data to validate the system. Right now we have 2 number for handicap events and that looks to continue for at least a while so let it go.

The calculation based systems will provide different numbers for different configurations. The US is only result based. All will provide nothing more than fireside arguments.

The Glogal challenge is not a good event to put into anyones database of results. Hans was the man and deserved the win. He is the only one to finish every race. His A-cat experience and skill placed him at or near the top of the fleat after every first beat. His downind experience was less and he rarely pulled the kite. It was not the conditions where you could afford to be anything but relatively conservative if you did. When the kite was up we (and everyone who pulled them) were much faster, but went swimming a lot. Marcus tore his kite, Jalani had boat issues Tues morning and missed a race. With more races and a variety of conditions things could have ended the same or completely different. No one will know untill we do it again.

No matter what though, I am very glad that I made it to this event. Hans and the WVZ went way out of their way to make this a great event. As I have said before, I really go these for the people and party anyway, and the group I met at this event was exceptional.

Thanks all for a great week.

Not happy back at work,, Matt


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 9:45 am
scooby_simon
(@simonJlongstaff)
Posts: 3496
Captain Registered
 
Quote
Depends on the conditions and the sailor.

In general, I think 1-up is faster in milder conditions. 2-up becomes faster as the conditions get stronger. The point at which 2-up is faster depends on the ability of the 1-up sailor to handle the conditions (wind and waves).

Example: I can only handle wind ranges of 12-15 to be competitive 1-up, but Hans can handle wind ranges of 20-25 and be competitive.

PTP, is pointing an issue 1-up because you have no jib? It is certainly easier to sail upwind with a jib. It may not be the sail configuration, but comfort level and tuning.

My point exactly. Single handed is faster, but we run out of hands. At times I've stayed with F18's up wind in the big stuff (25kts), but it is too much for me to wire down wind and so they get away down hill.

In time we will get better at sailing these boats (single and 2 up) and so get nearer the ultimate speed and so be more competitive on handicap.


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 9:46 am
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
Topic starter
 
Quote
You guys really need to get out and start sailing, if nothing more than to generate the data to validate the system. Right now we have 2 number for handicap events and that looks to continue for at least a while so let it go.

The calculation based systems will provide different numbers for different configurations. The US is only result based. All will provide nothing more than fireside arguments.

The Glogal challenge is not a good event to put into anyones database of results. Hans was the man and deserved the win. He is the only one to finish every race. His A-cat experience and skill placed him at or near the top of the fleat after every first beat. His downind experience was less and he rarely pulled the kite. It was not the conditions where you could afford to be anything but relatively conservative if you did. When the kite was up we (and everyone who pulled them) were much faster, but went swimming a lot. Marcus tore his kite, Jalani had boat issues Tues morning and missed a race. With more races and a variety of conditions things could have ended the same or completely different. No one will know untill we do it again.

No matter what though, I am very glad that I made it to this event. Hans and the WVZ went way out of their way to make this a great event. As I have said before, I really go these for the people and party anyway, and the group I met at this event was exceptional.

Thanks all for a great week.

Not happy back at work,, Matt

I'm sailing about as much as I can right now. Maybe more in September.

But I've wondered about the spin from the beginning. Clearly, there are times when a better result can be obtained by being conservative and letting the other guys crash.


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 10:05 am
PTP
 PTP
(@CaptainPP)
Posts: 2684
Captain Registered
 

I agree.. sometimes it is better to remain upright and let the other guys make mistakes. However, in high winds I have almost as much problem gybing without the spin as with the spin when soloing.


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 10:12 am
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
Topic starter
 

<img src=

alt=

/> <img src=

alt=

/> <img src=

alt=

/> Do tell! It's best when you have an audience. <img src=

alt=

/>

I think Wouter argues that it's actually easier under spin. Something about settling the boat down, or lifting the bows maybe. In any case, you gotta keep moving. If you slow down you're dead meat. Trust me on that last part.


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 10:40 am
PTP
 PTP
(@CaptainPP)
Posts: 2684
Captain Registered
 
Quote
Not happy back at work,,

ain't that the truth... not a big fan of it myself.


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 11:16 am
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
Topic starter
 
Quote
Quote
Not happy back at work,,

ain't that the truth... not a big fan of it myself.

I could be dealing with an outbreak of c. diff. but, I'M OFF TODAY!! <img src=

alt=

/>


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 12:09 pm
PTP
 PTP
(@CaptainPP)
Posts: 2684
Captain Registered
 
Quote
Quote
Quote
Not happy back at work,,

ain't that the truth... not a big fan of it myself.

I could be dealing with an outbreak of c. diff. but, I'M OFF TODAY!! <img src=

alt=

/>

c.diff... not cool. bad doctors! BAD doctors! did give out some clindamycin though <img src=

alt=

/>


 
Posted : August 24, 2007 2:25 pm
Secret Link