nacra infusion

I just tried to buy one here in the USA and was told that they will NOT be available here until, at the earliest, JUL 2006. The NACRA Rep here said they are being produced now but the 1st 200 +/- are all going overseas. I did not want to wait that long for a boat so I ordered the "Old Fashiond" one that I can have next month. [color] At least this way I can blame my losses on having an Old, Slow boat! 😉

There is a 2005 Nacra f18 used only once on ebay and the Alter Cup boats are supposed to be the new Infusion which will be sold afterwards.

Those boats (Alter Cup) are going quickly if they're not already sold. Fence sitters better get a deposit down with Kirk.

the first 200 ?

That is a bit high a number isn't it. I mean to sell in only 6 months (till june 2006)

I know it is customary to claim any number of presold boats but this is a bit rich.

Wouter

i wonder if over seas means AUS? i would think this would mean europe where they will sell all 2 hundred

don't know where you heard this, but I don't believe its accurate.

Hi John,

Do you know if Nacra is bringing Infusions or the "still for sale" F18 to the Alter Cup? With all the talk about the first Infusion being tested recently, I would think the timing is very short to get 10 or 11 Infusions to the Alter Cup.

As a second question, does the Alter Cup Committee care which boat is provided?

Les,
Infusions for the Alter Cup.
Bob

Hi Les -

Actually, no, the Committee doesn't have a preference of boats. We have a responsibility to provide the level playing field - that's all. Invariably, no matter what boat is selected, there are people who are happy and their are people who are not. I say "selected," but we actually have to pretty much beg manufacturers to stay involved - it is a cost to them, even with the meager charter fee we can offer, to send boats to the event. I'm greatful each year that we have new boats... each time it means we have been able to avoid going back to borrowed boats one more time. Some Championships depend solely on borrowed boats - they crab together the first ten Flying Scotts they can find, clean 'em up some, and let 'er rip. We've been lucky - thank you Jack and Doug, and now add Matt for 2007.

This year we do, as mentioned by others, have the pleasure of seeing the Infusion (still hate the name!) at the event. The production schedule is, as always, tight, but everything is moving forward with the usual attendant excitement and rumour/speculation, well-intentioned or not.

I talked to Jack Young and Pete Melvin about a week ago. Jack is mostly sure that the boats will be ready for the Alter Cup. Pete kind of shakes his head and will not make a commitment to it. Though it is a short timeframe they have been working on the boat really hard lately. With the successful sail of the first production model a week ago they went back and put in order all the things that need to happen to get the boats out. The boat is using many of the same parts as on the older boat. Differences are hulls, daggerboards, mast, main sail and boom. I think that the trampoline had to be modified a bit to fit, but I am not sure of that. So you ask what is the same? Crossbars, all the hardware, spinnaker set up, rudder system. Forgot to mention that I think they are changing out to Main system to 10:1.

My understanding is that there are approximately 40 deposits from Europe and I think all of the Alter Cup boats have buyers. That is a bit over 50 for right now. Other that that there are about 20 more interested in the U.S. I have no idea how many want them in other places but I would think that 100 is easy to get to.

They have made enough molds to make two full boats at at time. They can pull them a bit faster than the older model, due to Infusion process. They may be able to get about 8 boats a week at full production. I cannot figure out what that would do to the production of all the other Models they sell. There are only so many hands at the factory.

Later,
Dan

Will the Formula 18 rules be in affect for the Alter Cup? I am primarily refering to the sail plan vs crew weight. The Nacra Class rules are the same. Nacra would have to supply a few small sets of sails. In a round robin what a pain it would be to have to change sails. Still, as an F18 sailor I think that is the way it has to be done.

That matter has been under discussion for some time, and advice was sought from the officers of the NAF-18 class. I believe the way the race committee is leaning is to change the class rule for the event to require teams under 308-pounds carry 100% of the weight up to 308, and then the normal 50% up to 330-pounds. The manufacturer is only providing the larger sail plan with the boats, and it would be unfair to allow a team to bring a smaller set of sails to be moved from boat to boat in the 'round-robin.

As an example, a team that weighs 300-pounds would carry 8-pounds to get to 308, and then 11-pounds to get 50% of the difference from 308 to 330 (22-pounds). The total weight carried would be 19-pounds, or 9.5 pounds per hull - Class rules regarding the placement of crew corrector weight are also expected to be modified.

Nobody is excited about mucking with the formula, but we're always faced with having to modify class rules slightly to accomodate 'round-robin racing on provided boats.

I think its time for a weekend or second shift at PC, at least for a few months.

I agree, it's never cool to screw with the rules. But this certianly looks like the best solution given the circumcstances.

Hmmmmm... wonder how much a set of hulls and daggers cost.

Performance is running two, full-time, staggered shifts already to meet demand. I think the Hobie factory has had to do this in the past as well.

Have faith.

This is very nearly the exact proposal that has been put forward at the International F18 Class to change the rules to eliminate the small sails in the Class. The reason given is that many believe that the sail development is all concentrated on the larger sailplan, thus putting the smaller crews at a disadvantage. The proposal was defeated within the F18 Class because most of the sailors believe the large and small sailplans have proven to be a fair equalizer between light and heavy crews.

I believe the Alter Cup Committee has come up with the best solution for a regatta like Alter Cup where everyone sails every boat to equal things out. Congratulations to the Alter Cup Chairman and Committee!

Thanks, Les

I want to stress that, as a Class member, I feel the formula works just fine as it is, and I was not in favor of doing away with the smaller sail plan. Sue Korz, IMO, is the poster girl for the fact the formula seems to work just fine - small sails, third place at NAs, very tough fleet. She and Kevin are around 280, which surprised me.

Hi All,

I am a big supporter of one jib size for all. The Formula 18 is a boat that perform best with a bit of lard on the side. I think 150+ kg is an ideal all round competitive crew weight. I believe it is a distinct disadvantage to be less than 140kg.

When Glenn and I won the worlds in 2004 we were 155kg. Last year we were 149.5kg (we were eating as much as we could to get the weight back on – hmm Doughnuts). Mitch and Herbert sail at 160kg and they are certainly not slow in the light winds.

I often sail the AUS Hobie Tiger Nationals (2004 & 2005) and I sail with my girlfriend and we are 141kg. From the point of double trapeze you are at a disadvantage and we struggle upwind and really have to do something special to win a windy heat.

Using the small jib and spinnaker is a disadvantage as well. That jib is a waste of time putting up and is virtually impossible to steer from. There is absolutely no development done on the small rig. Hobie and Nacra have small rigs but I bet you can’t buy one from Capricorn or any of the other manufactures.

We need to do everything we can to encourage all women and youth teams. This rule is pushing them away. They are already at a disadvantage because they are light and should not be penalized further.

At the last 2 Worlds there has not been 1 small rig in the Gold Fleet. This cant be encouraging the young teams. I probably will never be affected and have to use the small rig but I dont think it is good for the class.

In saying all that I believe that the current weight equalizer between 140-150kgs works really well.

Good luck to all at the Alter Cup. Sounds like a great event.

Cheers
Bundy

Hey Bundy....

What do you think about a large spinnaker for the fat boys over 180kg.

When it is light we get smashed upwind and down, but when we are fully powered, we can match the 150kg guys except downwind.... They always run deeper and faster.

We have dropped from 184kg to 177 at the states last weekend and looking at reaching our target weight of 160 kg. No donuts for us

Wow - Darren, thanks for offering your perspective. Nice to hear from a major-leaguer.

I realize that EU and AUS are quite a bit ahead of the US in F18, but thus far we have seen the opposite of what you're contending. The smaller sail plan has been very competitive (3rd at Nationals) and has gotten teams on the water (youth and women) that wouldn't have been able to get out there otherwise. I wonder if perhaps the Gold Fleet make-up you're talking about might be more attributable to the teams rather than the larger sail size - it seems to me that most of those guys were already successful in other classes where a bit of beef was necessary. How many of the specific teams carrying the small sails at the event could have been realistically expected to have made Gold anyway? In otherwords, who do you think would have made the cut if they had not had the small sailplan?

Anyway, I guess at this point in the development of F18 in the US, the small sailplan is working. When the issue was discussed within the class here, I seem to remember overwhelming support to keep the small sailplan in the formula.

Thanks again for posting - we need more folks like you to drop in here to talk about what is going on in the front of the fleet.

Steve,
Time you changed your login to F18_Alive