Standing on the Dagger Board to right an F18

If you get yor body way forward and I mean up bu the bridals, the blat will drift nose to slowly, then you got to move back ad out PDQ; timing to get the waves to help is good too. DH off is a must as is a good righting line.

Could someone clarify this for me. I fli[p my Tiger (and everything else) all the time and never touch the downhaul. I also have mine pretensioned, but would still have some minor concern about the top getting unhooked if I release the DH Tension.
Why does it make a difference?
CARY

Hi Mary,

Thanks for the explanations--very helpful.

I want to make sure of we are both using the same nomenclature. I recently ordered Johnson "shroud adjusters" from Annapolis Performance Sailing. It sounds like these are similar to, but not the same as the "loops" you describe. I can't seem to locate any of these from the usual sailing retailers.

However, Mary you said: "The reason I have heard for them not being class legal for some classes is the fear that the extra slack in the shroud might cause the mast to jump off its base during the righting process (although I have not personally heard of this happening)."

In my mind I can envision the value of lossening the upper shroud to allow the boat to start the righting motion. I imagine it would have to be loosened quit a bit to make much difference. But your point about becoming de-masted scares the daylights out of me. As Scooby said, capsizing, at least for me if I'm not practicing a righting technique, usually occurs due to higher wind/wave conditions. It seems to me most sailors and I imagine yourself, right their boats with crew weight alone, using techniques like detensioning the downhaul and positioning the mast for lift, and may use a pole, water bag, or drag chute for assistance. I bet if all of us in this thread were sailing F17s together, and one of you guys dumped, I could see you getting back up faster or easier than me. So I gotta think my inexperience is a big part of the problem. I've tried so many things and I still can't do it. It's tough when I don't know, what I don't know. But I'm going to get it sorted out sooner or later, and someday I'll be able to say with certainty, an F17 can or cannot be righted with 165-170 lbs.

A little off your points, Scoobie mentioned getting out on the hulls near the bridle attacment and using a good righting line. I replaced my stock righting line with 24' of good line that's easy to hold onto and to tie loops in. I've used the line to litterally balance myself out on the the extreme hull tip and hike my weight out even farther. It has absolutely no effect on repositioning the boat. Nor does it make any difference if I do the same thing off the hull's tramsom, or any position in between.

Mary, is a drag chute basically the same shape and dimensions as a righting bag, such as the one on page 36, item #01-3282 in Murray's catalog? If it is, them maybe in more difficult circumstances it could do double duty, assuming I could get it off the end of the hull and hook it over my shoulder with it loaded with water. I do usually sail on a lakes by myself, so your advice to carry some emergency gear sounds prudent.

Thanks Mary,
Daniel

Hi Wouter,

Well it seems we're birds of a feather. I'm plagued with the same condition, only I inherited it from my Irish ancestors. I've been chewed out for lacking tactfulness more than once. I took no offense, in fact as I said it really cracked me up, precisely because I never thought you intended any meanspiritedness.

One of the things I've realized over time regarding talking online, is first, most of us abbreviate our thoughts so we don't have to type as much. And second without tonal inflection, facial expressions and physical gestures our words when printed on a monitor, stand stark. As such they're open to an individual's interpretation, without benefit of clues as to the meaning intended by the speaker. So it's no wonder guys flare up at one another; only to be told by the person they railed against that their interpretation was incorrect. I suppose sailors, as a group, are fairly competitive people, and it occurs to each of us that our view of the world is the correct one, in spite of the fact that no evidence may be available to support our opinions. Instead we proceed forward on our assumptios alone, without the immediate participation of the person we're reacting to. A recipe for disaster and an opportunity for openmindedness.

I figure you're a pretty passionate guy when it comes to sailing and reading your posts tells me you know a heck of a lot more than I do about sailing. So I'm open to what you have to say, however you say it.

Maybe I should have provided a little bio about myself when I signed up for this forum. I guess I was either lazy or figured nobody would give a rip. Here's the deal...couple things happened to me that got me into sailing. First I got older and second I busted up my body pretty badly a little while ago. Last winter I wasn't making any progress with my recovery program, was really depressed about being an old fart, and no longer possessed a body that had formerly allowed me to lead a very athletic life. This fall I'll be 64. I decided sailing wouldn't stress my joints or bones very much and the activity would get me out and moving again. So I read everything I could get my hands on, reached a decision and bought 2005 Nacra F17. I launched it June 4, of this year. That was the first time I'd ever been on a sailboat in my entire life. It was blowing about 12-15 and gusting harder when I pushed off. I was so stiff I could hardly move around on the tramp and really just hung on, scared shi_ _less! Boy, was that a ride. Yesterday I logged my 53 time out sailing my little boat. First book I read while waiting to pick up my new boat was "Catamaran Racing: for the 90s" by Rick and Mary. Half the time I didn't know what they were talking about, and would have to stop and look up a term. But it's clearly written and I really enjoyed it. I still go back over specific sections when I come in from sailing, all befuddled. I went from them onto Stuart Walker and then to Frank Bethwaite. I've never been very successful at anything until I knew it in my mind inside out. So this summer I've been sailing a lot and reading at night. As good as any author may be I still need to put a new lesson into my own words and juggle it around until the light goes on. Sailing by myself as I do, you guys offer a valuable resource for me, and I'm very grateful for your advice.

I love sailing and my body is slowly starting to recover. A friend suggested I better watch it or I'd turn into a beach bum. Pleeeeeze, lord let me be a beach bum.
I've got a few hours of light left and it's blowing ...I'm outta here. I'll get back to you Wouter.
Thanks Wouter

In order to undo the shackle / thread on the downhail; do you not need to pull the DH back thru the system to create enough slack to un-do it ? I do. herein the answer - you are only letting most of the tension off....

Okay, I understand how important it is to know how to right your boat if you capsize, but what I don't understand is why you guys capsize in the first place. It's really not necessary, you know.

If you don't swim now and then; you are not pushing hard enough !

That's a cliche that I don't accept.

Ok, I'll bite..

Capsizing is slow, so we try to not do that. However, sometimes you can't avoid it. Either becouse we react to slow or wrong, we run out of options or we have to gamble to stay competitive.

Last weekend we was racing around the buoyos on a windward/leeward course. The top mark had an offset mark, and it was blowing 10-12m/s (around 25knots) with stronger gusts. On the jib reach to the offset mark, we was two 90kg's guys at the rear of the boat holding on to the aft-crossbeam with wide-open eyes locked to the bows who was underwater for the whole reach. If hit by a gust then, we would surely have gone over. Main and jib was both travelled out and twisted off.

One thing is your own boathandling and sailing style, when you have other boats around you need to think three moves ahead to stay out of situations that can lead to capsize.

Then you have the 'it came out of nowhere' capsize, like when we pitchpoled for the first (and so far, only time). We was sailing along as usual, not pushing it at all, and suddenly leeward bow just dove under..

I don't check this forum that often - sorry I've been absent!

With regard to wind strength, it's very important that you have enough wind to right the boat. All the times that I single handedly righted my F18, it was blowing in excess of 15knots. My F18 weighs 399lbs.

Orientation to the wind is important and I usually drag myself in the water off the bow to rotate the boat. Then VERY quickly get back to the righting line and start to lean out hard. As the boat comes up, it will want to swing the mast and sails into proper orientation with the wind. I bet your problem is mostly the lack of wind when you've practiced righting.

with regard to downhaul, I've never touched it when righting. Take a look at the following picture (my old Nacra 6.0 on a VERY tiny and extremely puffy lake) - the sail has pretty good draft even with downhaul on.

Sounds like a real fight for survival. How is it possible to build a single hander that you can’t right without some convoluted after market BS and two hours work?

Hello,

some comments regarding things I read.
There might be a disadvantage by loosening the downhaul.By that you might create a "baggy" shape of the mainsail.Thus alowing more weight pushing the mast down.
I sail a nacra5.5 mostly singlehanded, when I capsize I detach the main-sheet, so the sail sinks inline with the wanted righting motion.Then I put the daggerboard halfway in,making it stronger to stand on.After that I fasten myself to the righting line,pull out a (in the meantime become cold) beer and wait.Usually there is not enough time to finish my beer.
Reading all the articles there must be a solid solution to the righting problem when all combined.

Good luck and can someone please make the winter disappear?
P.

"Actually, I would probably get the hell out of the way while the rescue boat tries to right the catamaran - either by getting ON the rescue boat or jumping into the water and getting at least a boat length away along side."

OOer guys - never let go of the boat, thats priority number 1 in a capsize

Hi,

I've spent my fair share of time upside down on a few cats over the years. IMHO getting them upright is 95% technique with only a bit of brute force on most occasions. These days we run the downhaul under the tramp and that doubles as my righting rope. We have *never* removed the main from the sail to get the boat upright again. I understand what you are trying to achieve however it is simply not an issue.

BTW - middle of a glorious summer down here - expecting 110 deg F today

Michael

Quote

BTW - middle of a glorious summer down here - expecting 110 deg F today

Michael

Yes it is winter here and the water is a bit on the cold side but we were able to get out for about 2 hours in about 12 to 14 knots today.