F85SR Concept Boat

Hi Phil
I'm assuming you bought your mast from C Tech in NZ. I've been in touch with them. I'd be interested to know what you think when it arrives. Racing Mail OrderBride to Alaska this June in the R2AK. She rows really well!
Wayne

Wayne,
That is correct.
It is scheduled to be shipped tomorrow so I would think that I'd have it within the next couple of weeks.

Wayne just checking out that R2AK ...wow awesome idea. That's another one for my bucket list like the everglades challenge.
Is a F85 eligable? would have thought it would be just small boats...not read the SA's yet.

I'm currently making the daggerboard case. This should have been done and installed before the main hull halves were joined
but I wanted to experiment with the cabin space before committing to the dagger board.
Having mocked up the inside with both the C/B and D/B I have decided the space actually feels more open with the D/B.
Go figure as I really didn't think this would be the outcome.

So I have made the D/B mould and made both sides. Weighing all that went in and out I got a 43% resin content.
The weight of the stbd side is 3.8kg and the port side came out at 4.2kg.
The port side is a little heavier because of the extra glass that goes into it to reinforce the channel for the pull up/down lines.
Below are pics of the port side just before and just after demoulding.

Another piece of the puzzle arrived today.
Mast , carbon with all carbon fittings and 5 constrictor clutches fitted for all 5 halyards.
Set up so each halyard can go to either cabin top winch once I add 4 more turning blocks on the mast base.

The sheaves are already fitted for the 2:1 halyards.
The mast base is built into the mast with a socket to take the gin pole out front for raising and rotation and raising web out back.
Just need to add the halyards and stays.
It is just over 12.6 metres long and weighs 57.01kg. Once the synthetic stays are added I expect it to be still under 60kg. I think that is very good going for a mast of that length. I asked for hi mod carbon in the side walls which should result in the mast being 35% stiffer than Farrier's minimum specs, at least through the minor axis. Hopefully improving what I see as one of the main weaknesses of a wing mast. Time will tell.

Yup F85 is eligible and we are in. No limits on boat size or type just no motor at all. I am working on the rowing systems but as it is with one simple station in the **** I can maintain 2.5 kts rowing alone. I am putting a sweep on each float and am convinced that 3.5 /4 will be realistic. We will be sailing with three crew. Wish I had your rig!

Just working on some more pieces to the puzzle.

A pic that shows just how long the Dagger board is. Makes me look short but I'm just 1/2 inch under 6ft.
These look like great boards, many thanks to help from Mark H and his CNC work.

They are nice looking boards, What happened to the 6ft swim suit model, That i hired to hold them for you <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> ?
Is your email working i haven't heard from you for a while

Richard

Hi Phil have just sent email,let me know if you get it.

What happened to the 6ft swim suit model, That i hired to hold them for you smile smile ?

Hey Richard,

Are you sure that you sent that model to my place? Didn't get the directions confused with your abode?

Here are a couple more pics.
I trial fitted the board in the case before fitting the case to the hull but just wanted to double check
to make sure the case remained straight and true after fitting.

You will note that this is going to draw quite a lot with this board down.

Here is a pic from the stern with the board all the way up.

I was quite surprised at how long it took to cut the foil shape in the keel.
But that is OK as it all fits with just the right amount of clearance to ensure trouble free operation.

Hi Phill, That is going to draw a bit of water, No she didn't come here. Someone has got a nice surprise <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

I got to thinking that painting the cabin roof and sides would be easier with the hull upside down.
I also figured installing the mast compression post and all the carbon would be easier as well as the D/B control.
So here are a couple pics.

The mast compression work can be seen as well as the start of the up/down lines for the D/B.That is some plastic tubing with a line inside.
The line is in plastic to make sure I don't accidentally glue the line in when the cover is glued on.
I will use it to pull the up/down lines through later.

I made the cover big in the hope that I can get my hand in to re thread the lines from an inspection hatch in the deck.
I preferred this to an inspection port inside the cabin, although one can still be fitted if my plan does not work.

I've done all the fairing that is needed to paint the cabin top inside gunwale to gunwale and it took less than 500gms of resin.
The foam is so straight I just had to fair in the tapes and the companionway. I was expecting have to use a lot more resin but my system of taping has worked a treat.
All 100mm tapes have 150mm of peel ply over them. When the peel ply was removed I went over the edge of the tapes with a scraper with sharp tungsten blade feathering just the ends. Put the faiing compound on with a spring steel fairing knife and scraped most of it off at the same time. This just leaves the hollows filled. Once cured I went over the tapes again with the tungsten bladed scraper, you can see the shavings as I haven't vacuumed yet.I may light sand so the paint has a key but that is all. I can currently see where the tapes are but I can't feel them. Can't feel so once painted won't see.
If the weather is OK tomorrow I'll start painting.
Here are pics.

Looking aft in the cabin.
If this thing ever flips I want the top seat.

Several days ago I made up some non structural panels to go in as dividers beneath the settees.
I used 8mm M80 core cell foam and 200gm glass. Up until now all panels have been made under vacuum but thought I'd do these without.
The reasoning is that temps are running around 10deg and even below over night and the vacuum would need to be applied for nearly a full day
and the panels were just dividers and non structural.
I weighed out the resin to give a 50/50 resin glass ratio and applied with a roller.
Followed this with peel ply etc and put between to panes of plate glass with 3 layers of bricks on top.
Once fully cure the laminate just peeled off the foam as I took the peel ply off.
This is in stark contrast to when I have separate foam from laminate (to put in HD core) in panels made under vacuum.
Then I have had to resorts to a hammer and very sharp chisel to get the M80 foam out to put HD in.
Needless to say I ditched the panels and went back to the vacuum method that has served me so well up until now.

I am so glad that I have used vacuum on the hulls, bulkheads and all other panels on the boat.
This little experiment has convinced me that the added expense and increase in time it takes is worth using a vacuum.
(Although I think had I primed the foam with resin before the galss was added and/or been warmer it would have made it less likely to delaminate so easily.)

BTW:-
Had I wanted to get the same pressure as a vacuum by putting bricks on top I'd need the bricks to be something like 30ft high.
Quite surprising how much pressure the vacuum applies.

Not really hard to see the problem here in hind sight Phill.

you mixed 50:50 resin.

Lost 10-20% of that into the peel ply
another 10-20% into the foam.

That left you with a resin:cloth ratio of about 30:70.

Scarecrow,
You have a good point.
The peel ply that I'm using absorbs 40gm per sq metre.
Weighing the glass that came off reveals it only has a 30% resin content.
An interesting point about foam. I have a small quantity of foam other than the Core cell and it absorbs quite a lot more resin.
So I find the final weight of a structure will depend on the brand of foam used as well as the type of resin used in addition to the designed laminate.
Even diff between using fast and slow hardener of the same manufacturer. I find it strange that a comparison has not been properly documented on the net somewhere.
Best bet as far as resin goes is to go off the data sheets regarding viscosity. No doco that I know of regarding the foam.

I've got some data on it I'll dig up when I finish building/moving into the new office. When building cored structures out of pre-preg you always use a resin film between the laminate and the core, so you don't wick all the resin out of the inner layers.

If you read the

gumf

from most of the foam suppliers they make a big deal about reduced resin absorption, particularly with new products.

If you're really interested talk to the guys at Gurit I'm sure they'll be able to point you in the right direction.

Reliable info on resin absorption by the foam at the beginning of the project would have been handy and of considerable interest
given I have weighed everything going in and coming out.
As I bought the foam and resin from Gurit I phoned them up before I started the project and one of the questions I asked
was how much resin I should allow for absorption into the foam. The answer provided was 250gm per sq metre.
They qualified this figure with saying that is what they advise people doing resin infusion and could give me no other info on the subject.
I proved on the first laminating session that 250gm was way over the top when hand laminating with vacuum.
I think it was closer to 50gms per sq metre. (detailed this in one of my early posts.)

It also surprises me that so far Gurit are the only ones to my knowledge that provide data sheets that specify a vacuum window
given the hardener and ambient temperature. This has been just so handy to ensure I can run a high vacuum without pulling too much resin out of the laminate.
I'm nearing the end of the laminating now, only got the settee backs and a few small things to go.

I've been working away slowly.
Here is a pic or the window shape that I have finally decided upon.

After a great deal of procrastination I have finally worked out how I want the interior set up.
No doubt once sailing I'll find it is all wrong but at least I have a starting point.

Here is a couple of pics.

The fdw port compartment will hold a water bladder and will pack fruit and veg on top.
Between that and the D/B case will be the battery and depth sounder.
The battery will be on a small false floor.
On the other side of the case will be esky/car fridge but not when racing. (also on small false floor)

I intend to make some in fill panels between the seat and D/B case to widen the seats for sleeping.

I made the seat backs from 8mm corcell M80under vacuum with 200gm plain weave glass each side.
The edge has a strip of the panel doubled up and a layer of 300gm uni carbon to each side to strengthen.

There is a recess made into the edge that will house LED strip lighting.
There will be a coloured night setting to not affect night vision as well as a white light for when at anchour.
So the main lighting in the cabin will be indirect.
It will also have a light above the dining/chart table for use when reading charts.

The seat backs were not taken down to the seats but join the hull further up.
This was done by applying a 100mm wide layer of glass, 50mm on the edge.
This was wet out with fast hardener and once cured but still green, put in place and the other half wet out against the hull.
When cured any gap was filled and glassed over.

I decided that I woudn't have cushions on the seat backs.
This allowed me to bring the seats backs fwd the width of the cushions, providing more storage space behind and allows both the sink and cooker to be installed behind the seat backs.
When installed they will be made to come fwd for use in a similar manner to the production F22.

The seats tops will be divided for the storage compartments.
This will provide a place to hang the foul weather gear on the stbd side of the D/B. when the seat top is open.

Currently the hull is upside down and I'm working through it with paint.
Here is a pic with the ceiling above the fwd berth undercoated.
I could do this standing up through the fwd hatch.

Here is a pic of my first instalment of sails.

That made my day <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />

Thank you for sharing all the pics and info on your decisions during the build. I am certain this will be a masterpiece when done (if a boat is ever

done

).

Thanks Rolf,
It's good to see that someone is checking up on the build now and then.

Your posts about your F85 build is the main reason I check in here.

Hi Phil,

I want to agree with Rolf. Your building blog is a inspiration for many detail solutions, even if Iam no Farrier Fan. I have copied a lot of posts for my own building project (just in case the site will shut down). I like to read your posts and return regularly. Please keep on!

Best Regards, Michel

Michel and Rolf,Thanks.
I used to have a site on geocities for boat building and I could see the stats. That was interesting. It was lost when geocities changed. I have been thinking of setting something up similar that I would control so stuff doesn't get lost. All the early pics have been lost from this site when the photo album feature was scrapped. . I just need to find time to redo everything elsewhere. Right now I have to get this on the water.
It is quite surprising how the inside of the boat feels like it is getting bigger as it is painted. I think I have it worked out so everything will be stored with very easy access so the inside can be kept uncluttered. Only time will tell if I'm having myself on. Here is a pic with some parts painted.

Nearly finished painting the inside.
I just have the seat tops and the cabin floor to go.
I'm quite keen to get this behind me so I can start putting a finish on the outside .
Unlike most, I quite enjoy fairing.