2 Skippers on the boat? Watch out!

I have wondered whether this is a problem in the Worrell 1000 where so many of the boats have two skippers aboard so they can switch off on the helm. I would imagine the most difficult thing about choosing a teammate for that race is finding someone you can be compatible with for two weeks of long days on the water.

I believe there is room for one skipper at a time. If there are two skippers on the boat then both have to be able to follow orders without a debate or theres going to be problems to follow for decades...I know from experience. I lost a very good friend because I gave an order he didn't agree with. When it proved to be the best decision he wouldn't admit it and never spoke with me again. [I never said I told you so] He actually sold his boat so he wouldn't have to compete against me. Seemed ridulous to me because neither one of us ever won a major event...but he still refuses to have anything to do with me 30 years later.

thom

When I crew on other's boats the first thing I say is that the skipper can tell me to shut up at any time. It's their boat and if they want advice or whatever from me I'll give it to them, but if they don't want it I'll shut up. It's only fair.

For crew on my boat I take a lot of advice and input and help, but the ultimate decision is left to me. That way if it was the wrong decision it's my fault and responsibility. I'll curse myself and situations, but never my crew. If somebody comes onto my boat and feels they have to run it without talking it over, well, that's their problem. And as crew you sometimes follow decisions you don't agree with or understand, but that's part of the game (as long as safety isn't involved).

I imagine on pro boats these relationships are understood up front. If it doesn't work out and egos get in the way you're off the boat, and if you say you won't sail with whathisname again, you might end up not sailing with anybody again.

It's a game - we all need to keep that in perspective! For friendships to be lost is a shame, but that only means that one or both parties have lost that perspective...

I have had the same problem. I crewed for a friend one time, we got in an argument and nothing has been the same again. Yet another reason why I tend not to race anymore.

I tend to be a little demanding. I read a couple books on how to communicate my ideas without being bossy or nasty and I think that helped... well sometimes... ha ha ha

Anyway, I think that a distance race is a different than course racing. I think course racing demands sharpness on every tack, rounding....etc constantly to win, where distance races demand sharpness to survive. I think survival is what keeps people together in distance races.

Plus look at the age of those guys doing the Worrell. Most are much older than I. In 15 years hopefully I will grow out of my dumbness.

hi,
the method i use to solve this problem is real simple. i explain to crew members, this is my boat and i am responsible for paying for her. all i ask them to do is follow my clear simple instructions. i sail with a lot of non sailors and i use english terms; pull this rope rope not 'heave the line'. when i crew for others i am just that Crew. i eat humble pie, drink free beer and smile. knowing all the time we could be doing better but it's not my job i'm just the crew.

In the good old days when more husbands and wives used to sail together, sometimes the situation was exactly the opposite of what you describe. Sometimes the skipper/husband did not want his wife/crew to know much about how to sail because "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing," and he did not want his wife (or girlfriend) knowing enough to start telling him what to do.

And the wives (girlfriends), on the other hand, often did not care to know anything anyway -- they were content to just do the jobs they were trained to do as crew and do their jobs well.

Whenever a man found and trained a male crew, we always knew that was going to be a short-lived relationship, because as soon as the crew knew enough, he was going to want his own boat -- and there goes the crew.

That was not as much of a potential problem with a female crew, because not that many women are interested in getting their own boats and becoming skippers.

This problem with two macho men on the boat has only become a problem in more recent years since the advent of bigger, faster, more powerful boats and spinnakers and all that stuff that have driven most of the women out of the sport as crew -- including ME.

The best thing for this sport would be to have again some smaller, less intimidating boats in a one-design class that will attract male-female crews.

The Hobie 16 is the only one-design class out there that still works for couples sailing together.

Since women are basically out of the picture now, we have the bigger boats with two men aboard and all the other men (and a few women) going to small, lightweight singlehanders.

If we could get back to boats that attract women, you wouldn't have to worry about this problem of two male skippers on the same boat with clashing ideas and egos.

You men, with your need for power and speed, have created the problem that results in two men on the boat. So learn to live with it, and each other -- or go back to funner, gentler times and let women back in. Please.

Thanks Mary:

male bashing at it's finest!

wow, tell us what you really think. for some reason you are now listed as a stranger with 16 posts. did rick demote you?

So, Mary- Where is our first female-designed catamaran/sailboat? A LIGHT modernized Hobie 14 or LIGHT Hobie 17 comes to mind...(with puce sails, a little flower sconce on the mast...Ooop X out those last 2 thoughts) . Seriously now, we have had good women skippers in Florida on Hobie 17s, and Cheryl Johnson just gave up her Hobie 18 for a 14. What about the teeny Mystere 4.3- too heavy? Prindle 15s are very rare now. Carla Schaefer is the only one I've seen on a 165 pound A-cat. Why izzit?

Todd,
That's interesting, because I thought I would be accused of female bashing.

Dave,
Rick who?

DACarls,
Women skippers, as we all know, are rare in this sport. That's why I was saying we need more women crews, so we need more boats that are woman-friendly in the crewing department.

Mary

The Tiger class has mostly women crew in our area, Nigle & Tammy, Alex & Patsy, Myself & wife, Dennis & Tracie, Jack & Becky, Fritz & Heidi. These are just the ones I know about. I think you don't see many women sailing in distance races is they don't like it. Just my thoughts.

I know the Tigers have been doing great with male-female teams. So I am really rooting for the class to grow!

Wasn't it women who said I can do anything a man can do???

What happened to equality , equal opportunity , I am woman???

What happened to we only need the mans sperm not the man!

I recall being told by a woman in the 1970s who was buying my Tornado that she would be able to sail the boat without question...Her first boat!!!

Could she raise the mast???

Could she launch the boat???

Could she back up the trailer on the ramp???

Could she raise the sails???

Could she reev the mainsheet for an 8:1???

Could she buy a lifejacket for any reason other than its color???

Could she right the boat after capsizing it while sailing alone???

Could she complain about broken finger nails???

Could she talk about absolutely nothing for hours in light air conditions???

Yea just what I want to do...go slow and talk...Maybe we could discuss how scared we are when the boat's going so fast or how the sails clash with the tramp

Over the last 40 years women have stretched and grown into the once male dominated arenas; Thats fine with me! Now they are blaming men for doing what they like to do... When does it stop??? Do we have to do everything with women? Are we entitled to enjoy a sport where a female may not be able to compete? I don't know of any male that requires his female whatever to do everything with him...not once in my 56 years have I heard a man complain like that!

thom

KA I look forward to hearing from you...

Wow, Thom, how did you manage to describe me so perfectly?

Thought you were going to be down here in the Keys by now. We are looking forward to seeing you.

Just checked out two of our events last year.
In our Northern Champs 19 out of 22 cats had either female crews or helms.
At our Nationals,which had a smaller turnout that usual, 17 out of 31 cats had females on board.
The cats were a mixture of Formula 18s, Spitfires, Dart 18s and Hurricane 5.9s. 1st and 2nd helms in the 20ft Hurricane 5.9 fleet were female.
Maybe we are just behind the times !

Great post Mary! I don't begrudge anyone their choice of boat but for me, simple boats + larger fleets = better racing and more fun. I noted with interest recently Rick White racing the Wave and Bob Curry returning to the H14. If sailors of that caliber are forgoing the 'arms race' and going simple maybe others will also.

to return couples to racing -
However, there is a lot of resistance (tom) now to the notion that a "racing" boat can be a "fun" boat.
Everything is a compromise...if you want to get more participation in the sport, you have to offer something for more than guys to crew on. We need boats that focus on endurance and skill as much as raw strengh. Tom - lot's of women sail dinghies. But speed, ability to multi-task, and endurance (especially hiking) are more important there than the ability to sheet a huge main for the skipper upwind and a huge chute downwind.
Personally, I don't want to belong to a "boys club."
I think it's pathetic how few women are sailing cats now. Almost all of the female crew I see at regattas are women who have been crewing for years. where's the new blood?

WOMEN ARE INTERESTED IN SAILING JUST AS MUCH AS MEN.

Reality check - I just finished teaching a basic sailing course at a local university - more women than men. When I sailed in college, guess what - almost 50/50 on our team.
Hmm...does the problem lie with "women just don't want to sail," with "women are just wimps and can't cut it" or with "us?"
Let's own up to the reality of the situation. If we (the majority right now) don't want any more women in the sport, fine. If we do, then we need to make changes. Tom, I think your vote's already been counted
Michael Coffman
t4.9 #32
p.s. - tom, I really understand your frustration with "some women," but I've had just as many "bad" male crew as "bad" female crew. And the best crew I've ever had (I don't count my friend Bobby, since he's actually a skipper who crews once a year with me) was a woman. You sound like you really need an a-class so you don't have to have crew

Mike-

I posted on the Crews Nest [Crew Wanted DAllas Texas] and received one response from Kay. Unfortunately she's in the frozen north and I'm in Dallas. In one of the responses I speak about "lighter crews doing the steering while I do the chores". If you're interested its still there.

thom

Hello Mary-

Know you...I have swapped emails with you and had one brief face to face conversation with you but I would not say that I know you well.

As far as Key Largo position that probably isn't going to happen.

thom

Back to the question of two skippers on one boat:

First to skipper is the one who brought the beer.
If he drops the beer overboard, he then becomes the crew. If he is stingy at giving out his beers to the crew, he is Captain Blye. If he drinks too many, he is ballast. If he falls overboard, he is a lost anchor.