13k? euros, maybe
Actually it makes sense for Nacra to standardize the mainsail size. The F20 class was dead, and so this standardization would creat a stronger worldwide class.
Also, hasn't Nacra petitioned to ISAF to adjust the F20 class to meet this spec?
It would be very easy for other builders to comply with the spec as well... just a new main, which people get every year or two anyway. If the F20 class is dead, its because of the cost of the boats compared to F18, and that you require 2 strong people, vs F18 which doesn't require as much physical strength.
A cat vs F-16?
The A cat has a class with active racing in the US.
The F-16 is still working on it.
It's that simple.
Re. cost: A new "Full Race" Opti will set you back $3,500, no trailer! A new Full Race Laser is about $5,000. I bought a used Hobie 18 for $750, a used Hobie 14 for $500 and a used Pridle Escape for $500, and each of them came with a trailer. None of them would be competitive for racing however, each was cheaper than my used Laser. ($1,000) I think the new prices of the Inter 20 just put that boat out of reach for many of us, just like the new A cats. $20,000 is a lot of dough to sneak past the wife! Maybe after the kids leave...
Yeah, that, too. 50 percent increase in price in the last 10 years. And the price of a Laser has increased at least as much and probably more, percentagewise.
In those two cases it can't be due to improved technology and higher building costs. So do the prices of the boats go up due to decreased demand; or is the demand decreasing because the prices of boats have gone up?
I guess that is an age-old economics question, and I sure don't know enough to answer it.
And Hobie Waves are a best-seller for Hobie Cat, and yet their price also has increased by at least 50 percent since they were introduced. I just don't understand any of this economics and marketing stuff. 
Yeah, that, too. 50 percent increase in price in the last 10 years. And the price of a Laser has increased at least as much and probably more, percentagewise.
In those two cases it can't be due to improved technology and higher building costs. So do the prices of the boats go up due to decreased demand; or is the demand decreasing because the prices of boats have gone up?
I guess that is an age-old economics question, and I sure don't know enough to answer it.
And Hobie Waves are a best-seller for Hobie Cat, and yet their price also has increased by at least 50 percent since they were introduced. I just don't understand any of this economics and marketing stuff.
For starters $3,300. in 2005 is equal in value to $2652.37 in 1995.
I was wrong. We paid $1,800 for a new Sunfish, and that was in about 1997.
But what I don't understand is how people's incomes can be going up as fast as the prices of boats.
The A cat has a class with active racing in the US.
The F-16 is still working on it. It's that simple.
I'm think one may benefit the other.
huh-uh !
fully fitted doublehanded race ready Blade F16 with an Ullman suit of sails = 12.900 US$
A full Blade F16 price list was given earlier this week in this very thread. Follow the link :
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...
You should have done your homework better.
People's incomes are not going up as fast as boat prices, that is why racing sailboats is on the decline I think. The middle class is being outsourced, so I expect you will see more downward pressure on middle class incomes.
OR, maybe it's that for the $19,000 of an A2 cat you could buy two $8,000 jet ski's, a trailer and have $2,000 gas money left over.
OR, as my son would prefer: two $6,000 Motocross bikes, a trailer and have $6,000 left for gear and spare parts!
OR, four $4,000 four wheelers, a trailer and gear for the whole family to ride.
OR, you could buy an Airplane!
http://www.barnstormers.com/
click on Search, type in "Pietenpol"
Of course all those things are going to cost you more after the purchase, just because they need gas to operate, and more in maintenance, but then you have to buy new sails if you are going to race, right?
There are lots of other things you can do with that kind of money, that the rest of the family could actually participate in, and you can do them even if there is no wind. Except for the airplane, they are quicker to learn, much faster than racing an A cat or Inter 20.
As boat prices continue to climb, I don't think you will see more people sailing, probably less, unless the price of gas goes so high that the motorized sports are just too expensive for the average family of 4, which could happen this summer if we get a couple more hurricanes in the Gulf!
huh-uh !
fully fitted doublehanded race ready Blade F16 with an Ullman suit of sails = 12.900 US$
A full Blade F16 price list was given earlier this week in this very thread. Follow the link :
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...
You should have done your homework better.
Hey Wouter.... TAKE YOUR F-16s TO YOUR OWN THREAD...........
Uhh... hang on forget what I said 
Carry on 
T_A:
Not sure if you caught on yet, but F16 is the latest strain of virus that infects every single possible thread on the open forum.
So far no known removal tool has been able to deal with it, as it appears to be rampantly infectious and insidiously annoying.
It does, however, respond poorly to sarcastic humor, to which it responds very defensively.
Carry on.
F16's is the coolest concept on the planet, I'm placing my order with Vectorworks now for 2 of them.
You can get an A cat for much less than $20k
Used min weight - couple years old in great shape $10k - $15k
New XJ $16k -$17k (ok not much less, but less)
An over min weight A was for sale in Newport last year for $3k. That had a Hall mast that was worth $2k at least.
You could have lightened this boat up for the cost of new daggerboards, easy and cheap.
Look around, lots of A cats trading hands for lots less than $20k.
Bill
Eyh, Maughan, you just implied that catsailing is the operating system equivalent to MS Windows becouse viruses pop up everywhere and can't be removed without installing (at least the nasty ones). If compared to operating systems, catsailing at least must be linux or perhaps MacOS. Cool, adaptable, fast and affordable (having just ordered 60 MS Office licences), quite secure and easy to run once you know how to. In that setting, the F-16 class clearly is the "Thunderbird" browser.
Dont know what the Tornado class would be if it was an application in the same setting tough. Word Perfect perhaps?
"Camelot is such a silly place, lets not go there." Clikety-clop clikety-clop clikety-clop etc..
I would tend to agree with that. It's like having four boats in one. Majorly versatile.
Any F16's in northeast US?
Anyone willing to take me for a spin when it warms up? I will reciprocate with my toys, A cat, F18HT, and others.
email me wjvining at yahoo dot com
"We are the Borg .. ehhh .. F16 class."
"F16 will copy your better features into it own design, enhancing its supremacy."
"Resistance is futile; prepare to be assimilated"
Wouter
Woter, Do you ever wonder why people get mad at you?
See : http:/
... and growing
btw : the 4 Taipan+spi boats in maryland Virginnia are not on the map as of yet.
Wouter
"Woter, Do you ever wonder why people get mad at you?"
"Joke" as defined by Webster’s New World Dictionary. (1) Anything said or done to arouse laughter. (2) A thing done or said merely in fun.
Personally, I thought it was pretty funny...and drew a good parallel to the sailing community. Status Quo does not really exist…something is either growing (assimilating) or dieing (being assimilated).
Regards,
Seeker
Constantine was second in one of the WRCRA Tuesday night series this year.
I too was quite pleasantly surprised to discover that Wouter has something approaching a sense of humour! - but then, with the amount of abuse he's taken over the last few years, he'd have to have, wouldn't he?
Maybe we should name an award after him, for the most persistent sailor. Call it the "Golden Wouter". As in, gee, did you know that guy has a golden wouter!
Wow...the F-16 sounds great. Single hand option. Double hand option. Fly a chute, race uni-rig. Except for one except: Is there a class here in the States?
I gave up my I-20 (great, GREAT boat) for an A-class (great, Great boat, with no chute) One reason for the change was the ability to race in a fleet. I like the idea of the F-16, BUT I suppose I would race a sabot if there was a fleet of those around.
Are any A-cats thinking of making the switch? Or getting into the F-16 in addition to the A class?
Just wondering?
Michael
I was hoping, that over time, we'd kinda just meld together.
btw- anybody have any tips on down wind sailing, my performance really sucks!
We are have seen several sailors switch. In both directions actually and in equal numbers too.
Often because they wanted to take their kids along or do spinnaker sailing (going for F16), or because they wanted to get into A-cat racing.
Personally I expect to both win sailors from the A-cat class as loose sailors to the A-cat class. It is a natural thing for people to transition from one class to another when their personal circumstances change. It is the same in catamaran sailing and there is nothing bad about it, although some people seem to make alot of fuss about that.
I don't know many people at all that keep both a F16 and an A-cat. I know of 2 persons who do but they are both boat collectors. Mostly; the owners gravitate to one boat over the other. The two boats seem to cater to different wish lists and that seperates them enough to eventually favour the one over the other (either way)
Personally I love to see both classes co-exist. I love the upcoming GYC A-cat/F16 invitation regatta. It will be the 3rd in the series (2004, 2005, now 2006) and shows both classes getting along quite well. (as well as proving that an US F16 class exists !)
Good luck
Wouter
Remember, you must give the boat above the ability to keep clear; you cannot just luff up at will.
There is here in Florida!