Alter Cup Notice from USS

Mike,

I think the only way this works is if you only need to be a US Sailing member if you want to participate in the qualifier component of the event. For example, suppose A-cat is chosen as the platform and it will be at the Grass Is Greener Yacht Club in March of 2014. The local regattas that will be tagged as qualifiers are selected by their area representation in conjunction with the event organizers at the end of 2012. In this example, Spring Fever 2013 would be the Area Dn qualifying event as they are expected to have another A-cat fleet. The A-cat fleet registers and people that want their results to count as part of the qualify enabled event, pay a small extra fee (mostly for trophies/medals) and must be a valid US Sailing member. You don't force the membership on the entire fleet because you will lose connection and overall participation with everyone else if you do. Let it be business as usual for the rest of the fleet that probably wouldn't join anyway. The event is sailed and scored. The sailors that placed in 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 11th had signed up for the qualifying enabled event and met all the qualification criteria. All four are eligible for the championship in finishing order and depending on how deep the selection process goes.

US Sailing (Liz) will probably take issue with the lack of a membership requirement on the fleet - but I PROMISE you won't get more members or grow the championship with it. Not in our sailing community. I think you introduce some randomness through a draw for some positions at the event to make the qualification more attractive to sailors of every level and let the benefits of US Sailing Membership, particularly the championship series, speak for themselves - not forcing people into things that makes some turn away altogether.

I love it! I think that's a great way to start as long as the event works around possible conflicts (of which the Hobie 16 has many significant events).

For the finals, Memorial Day weekend (every year) is an idea that has been floated and has merit (few existing regattas on that date).

No, we don't get to pick and choose rules. Everyone in the selected class would need to be members for that event (qualifier). Everyone else should be encouraged to join.

BEFORE ANY OF YOU REPLY, READ THE REST OF THIS (a few times, if needed)...

We need to find ways to make people WANT to join. We could use these events (qualifiers) as the locations for the local clinics / rules seminars. I'm sure there are other good ideas.

Mike

Won't work - tried it. It alienates people to require them to join something they don't want to be a part of and it makes the organization look LESS attractive. It is not a winning position. The regattas won't want it either as it will affect their attendance. I also challenge the notion that there is some stone-recorded rule that states this. I fully support that anyone that wants their record to count toward the qualification of the event must be a US Sailing Member - but not the whole fleet.

You make people want to join by having a valid championship that is attractive and desirable but that doesn't interfere with their lives if they don't want to partake. US Sailing would just as soon attempt to grow the membership with thugs and baseball bats instead of pie and hot women (or men for the ladies).

Jake... the you I refer to is the collective point of view that the event must be special....not that you are a benficiary.

This was a FEATURE.... not a bug.... All of the former Alter cup sailors who advised the committee thought that this idea of back to back events was a true winner... J22 sailors use this strategy for woman's champs and then NAs....

They assumed that the champinoship was Special and top sailors would spend time and money to compete.... The date was the farthest away from the F18 date as possible... The theory was that charter boats would be available. (they are)

The concept is not working...

I see no compelling reason why a BYOB event resticted to the top 30 sailors from 3 x 10 Area Qualifiers would have more appeal?... Its just a second smaller NA's....((where you hope that you got 1/2 the eligible sailors) why would

special

sailors want to attend... the exclusive nature??? .... Makes no sense to me.

Why would the OD class want to have TWO essential NAs... The all inclusive one... and the special one.... I can never see how a class would want this outcome.

In my view... the history and nature of the championship means that the Alter trophy should be awarded at one of three NA's (sloop, spin, single handed) on a rotating basis.

The elite sailors in that disipline means that the best sailor that week wins the trophy.

The rotation policy address all of the multihull racers in the country... every three years... they get a shot at their day in the sun perhaps in their class.

Based on participation at NA's in the three disiplines... you could see 50 boats or more competing...

That is SO not true. I was on the call and voiced my opinion when shortly afterwards I was reminded that I wasn't officially on the committee (aka

shutup

).

While membership is required at these events (US Sailing regulation 2.02 E, available on the website), championships alone are not enough of a carrot to drive membership, which is why I wrote that post the way I did. Read it again before ranting.

Mike

I'm stuck on this part:

Everyone in the selected class would need to be members for that event (qualifier).

Are you not saying that if the A-cat is the boat, all A-cat sailors at Spring Fever would need to be members?

That is what I'm saying.

I recognize that this would require some bravery, but I think we can get there if we put the past aside and work to improve overall benefits of membership.

I can use help on that committee if you're interested, Jake.

Mike

Really

you must have been a stealth participant then.... Sitting in on the first meeting gives you a half assed understanding of the debate and no ability to speak to the actual decisions made.

The decisions were dicussed and voted here.

http://championships.ussailing.org/... Spring+12/Minutes/USMHC+3-22+Minutes.pdf

Notice you were not participating....

MEMBER
ATTENDED
NAME
COMMENTS
YES
YES
Levesque, Michael
MHC Chair
YES
YES
Livingston, Jamie
MEMBER AT LARGE
YES
ABSENT
Lovell III, John
MEMBER AT LARGE
YES
ABSENT
Newberry, Sarah
Youth Multihull Championship Chair
YES
YES
Rice, Bert
US Multihull Championship Committee (MCC) Chair
YES
YES
Schneider, Mark
MEMBER AT LARGE
YES
YES
Sullivan, Laura
USMHC Committee Secretary
----
YES
Walker, Liz
USSA Championships Director, MCC Liaison
YES
YES
Witte, Eric
MEMBER AT LARGE
** Quorum required(5)
Quorum requirements were met.
GUESTS
YES
Bradshaw, Chris
YES
Bush, Shannon
Championships Chair
YES
Casey , John
YES
Green, Steve
ABSENT
Kohl, Jake
Krantz, Mike
Pitt, Nigel
YES
Redja, Kevin
Smyth, Randy

Yeah, I remember that meeting. I was driving back home after getting half way to a regatta because my wife fell...and I learned while en-route that Liz took our changes to the event conditions and insisted on adding her own changes the day before they were to be voted on even though she wasn't involved with the group challenged with modifying the conditions. I remember specifically not being involved in that meeting. That was the day I

was done

.

There were discussions on this event prior to that one meeting.

Okay, so I'm not an elite sailor and go to plenty of regatta's each year...I'll never qualify for the Alter Cup.

I won't (and haven't) participated in a qualifier for Alter Cup because I simply can't justify why I should pay USS for the privilege in sailing in their event. I've got plenty of other options and frankly I don't see what USS gives me (especially when both Skipper and Crew needed to be members .... that's an extra ... what ... $150 to my weekend); and I can afford it (we measure everything in wine -- that's 3 bottles of Cakebread!!)

To me, it's what do I get in return for that expense?

Other than this Championship, I don't really feel like USS cares about the beachcat sailor.

My 0.02

Convince me differently.

Mike, I appreciate the offer - but I'm not considering that again until there are some other changes (that I'll be glad to discuss offline). It's not

bravery

that's needed for this requirement. I just don't think it will get off the ground with this requirement in place. I totally disagree that the entire class, including those sailors of said class that are not interested in partaking of the qualifying event, must be members and stand by my

rant

. I think it's a mistake to require that. This one little thing (and it is little and petty on part of US Sailing) will prevent the qualifiers from gaining traction and prevent events from being interested in hosting the qualifying portion (because they would lose participation in that class). It may work in the big boats, but it just won't fit here. I totally, 100% agree, that anyone that is partaking in the qualifier opportunity should be a member. No question there.

Look at T-backs post just above. I would wager that he wouldn't bother attending the Spring Fever where the F16 is in qualifying mode because he doesn't want to join US Sailing and isn't concerned with competing for the championship. It's more than just the $ thing, it taints the whole thing for some folks. The potential hosting regatta won't want the loss of attendance and would probably decline the qualifier opportunity if this requirement comes with it.

We're just trying to come up with new ideas.

Claiming that the Alter Cup is an important (some say the most important) benefit of membership, then giving a list of reasons that only a select few need to join is simply not a compelling argument.

US Sailing offers a variety of benefits, and I try to think of new ones, or better ways for us to leverage other parts of the organization all the time.

Even when we come up with things we all agree are important, it's impossible to ask for things when we have less than 100 people who bother to join, and no real promise that anyone would join if things were changed.

We can live in fantasy land all day, bit the reality is that US Sailing is our governing body and our segment is not big enough to fundamentally change the way they operate.

Our best (probably only) chance to succeed is to identify ways to work with them to add benefits, not to demand special treatment. I went to bat for us in San Fran (it was not pretty) and managed to retain our core structure. It was duly noted that we are set up differently than anyone else. Most resistance came regarding championships.

I understood this as the way to proceed on Day 1. The sooner the rest of you do, the more chance we have to be successful.

Mike

Said another way, we cannot say that we demand our championship be run our way, then choose to join only in years that we care to enter.

At the end of the day, it really is just that simple.

Mike

Mike, well said. Like any organization, you only get out what you put in.
Caleb

I guess I'm missing something ... except for the Brand Name

Alter Cup

what benefit does our class of sailors derive from USS membership?

Maybe it would be best to say that we don't really fit with USS and do our own thing and have our own Championship. Maybe bestow the previous champions as the name for the next year championship.

The 2012 Struble/Lacesella BeachCat Multihull Championship

tback...

Perhaps you should try the counter factual...
What does the laser class sailor get from US Sailing?...
What do they get that catamran classes don't?

In the early days, you had to be a member of US SAILING to get the discount at a Hobie Cat Regatta, or pay extra for the US SAILING insurance coverage. This was changed as the coverage shifted to a different program.

Now,as I mentioned, you get out what you put in. Just ask anyone who has taken part in, or supported the Junior Olympics, Multihull Youth Championship, Alter Cup, or the Fast and Fun programs.

During the the Multihull Council meeting, concern was expressed about where the future sailors would come from. It is a simple answer. If you are not supporting the Youth Sailing programs in your area, you are not part of the solution. Usually, these programs have US SAILING trained level one instructors,and use US SAILING Training programs. They may be part of a Communitity Sailing Program or a local Yacht Club. The regattas that have US SAILING sponsored events all require membership. Youth Membership and Family Membership,in addition to individual rates, are all available through the Multihull Council website.

Mark,

This, a compelling argument, doesn't make.

After all, I don't sail Lasers. <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Weren't the lasers in the Olympics?

T, USS is a Federally mandated monopoly. If they chose, they could have any nonsanctioned regatta shut down by the Coast Guard as

unsafe

, applying whatever definition they chose. The best you can hope for from USS is benign neglect.

Um, actually it makes a lot of sense. We aren't getting any less out if US Sailing than anyone else. Even if we were, it would be OUR FAULT for not asking or figuring out the leverage options.

Um, in case you weren't paying attention, cats are back in the Olympics. Are any of you going?

Keelboats and windsurfers are out. We are WAY outnumbered by keelboats. Should all of them quit too?

Mike

Pete, now you've done it (again), and the black helicopters are on the way...

Mike

tback

If your curiosity does not lead you to contrast your experience with any other sailor in a dinghy or keel boat class... there is not much more to say.

What do you value in the sport?

If you don't want to know what the organiztion does and decide on it's value for you. ... fine. There is no penalty for free loading..

There is a cost tho....

Every cat class bemoans the small number of young sailors entering our niche of the sport... just heard it from the class reps at the US Sailing meeting.... So... what to do.

Fact of Life... parents put their kids into programs that are acreditted. THAT would be US Sailing. If you want to introduce those kids to your favorite flavor of the sport... you need to join and be part of the solution... If you don't value youth participation in organized sport.... OK..

If you don't value qualified judges to manage differences on the water... Ok. (your non support is a very very small cost)

If you don't value a program to grow the performance of the Race Officers... OK. (your non support is a very very small cost)

If you don't value leadership on all of the back office crap that you need... Ok. (your non support is a very very small cost)

It's your choice... but it is silly for me to convince you of what you should value.

And you've again demonstrated your misunderstanding of sailing, that's why this latest Alter Cup is going so swimmingly.

Pete,

I was joking with you, but just for the entertainment value, please enlighten us...

Mike

We've been through that ad nauseum. You guys insist on reinventing the wheel so enjoy the process.

Dude... You should give up on trying to be clever with the snark..

if this were the wheel... things would work... wheels would go round and round.

If you think things don't work.... you are not wasting time reinventing a wheel.... you are fixing stuff.

Neither applies here!

What is on the table is called moving forward... the past is the past... What issues that are not class specific can the newly named MRC (Multihull racing Committee) same representative structure as the past do.

safety standards and practices for YC who run multi events and have no clue how to rescue a turtled cat.
Online Rules clinic for 2012-2016
Training for young sailors... rec to olympic
Training for sailors who want to get into mulit's

There is a championship committee.... handles double handed monohulls, single handed champs... oh and by the way.. a mulithull championship.
The committee is trying for a Championship that works for the entire community. See Bert Rice if you have questions... Read the minutes if you want to know what ACTUALLY transpired versus your opinion.

All of the one design classes get to work with the One design classes on shared issues.... What issues should the catamaran one design classes bring up through the One Design Committee of US Sailing.
Ask your class what they are doing... Who are they working with... what is their long term plan to build fleets, add sailors, train sailors whatever... There must be some value because the other sailing OD classes participate. Ask your class what's the plan. Matt Bounds is a great rep for Hobie on this committee...Ask him... F18's plan to be active members of the OD Committee. Your class can get a seat at the table as well.

Olympic/International competition is another area...that multi sailors have a stake in.... ISAF passed the final slate for 2016 today... Mixed multi could have been tossed... We were not. Kites were replace with boards... Do you value this activity... ie an olympic cat?
Does US Olympic have an effective Development program that will coach young sailors up for future success..
Will the US N17 class be wholely owned by US Olypmic or be owner run.... or will it be factory run.. Will US Olympic set the agenda? Have they put in a way for you to support the efforts? If you wanted to buy a boat... Could you and by when. See Sarah Newbury if you want more information about this area... She is the Youth Chair.

Mike, at the end of the day USSailing needs us more than we need them, so stop telling us that we need to get onboard. You and I both know that if USSailing went away tomorrow it wouldn't change anything for 98% of the multihull community. USSailing needs to wake up and deliver a service that encourages us to join or at a minimum just gets out of the way.

FYI, the registration upcharge for non USSailing members is NOT a reason to join USSailing. I happily pay the upcharge because that money goes to the club and does NOT go USSailing. Now if USSailing would kick in a few bucks for every USSailing member that attended a regatta that might encourage me to join, let me know what Jack thinks about that idea.

And Mike, the folks that did your job before you understood how USSailing works too.

Still waiting for the minutes where USSailing agreed to waive the $50 per competitor fee and sponsorship restrictions.