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America's Cup - 10 days to go!

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Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 
[#26361]

(from now on, I'm just going to say BMWO and Alinghi instead of mentioning their respective yacht clubs, GGYC and SNG).

Time for another brief on the America's Cup. Much has happened since our last discussion - the biggest sticky point recently has been accusations from BMWO that Alinghi are using sails that were not constructed in Switzerland. These accusations have been ‘mumbled’ by BMWO for over a year now but they never brought it to a point. They did about three weeks ago and the teams met in Singapore to try and negotiate on several points. Many items of contention and questionable legality exist in the NOR and Sailing Instructions that have been recently published in draft form by Alinghi. Including, a wind limit of 15knots measured at 60 meters above the water, the wave limit of 1 meter (39 inches), trying to require BMWO to moore their boat inside the Valencia inner harbor (where there is not enough room for them to safely maneuver with the wing up), the effective reinsertion of rule 53 (which the courts permitted Alinghi to exclude) which means that BMWO’s newly fitted skin friction reduction system may no longer be permitted (yes, they may be ejecting a substance or fine bubbles into the water to help the hulls slip through the water more easily), among other things.

Alinghi’s sail problem is this: The Deed of Gift says

Quote
Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the legislature, admiralty, or other executive department, having for its annual regatta on ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match for this Cup, with a yacht or vessel propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the Challenging Club belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the Cup.

Alinghi’s sail panels are North Sails 3DL panels and the only place in the world to have them made is in the North facility in Minden, Nevada, USA where they have a custom pneumatically controlled mold where they lay out the mylar panels, lay in the reinforcement scrim in load paths, vacuum bag, and cook/cure the laminated panel together as per the customer’s design specifications. The Alinghi mainsails are seamed from two each of these custom molded panels and their genoas are made from 3 to 5 of these panels. Alinghi seamed these panels and added the corner fittings in Switzerland. Their first reaction to BMWO’s complaint was that their sails are made in Switzerland…so hush (I paraphrase). When pressed with evidence, their response was that “sails aren’t really part of the ‘yacht’ so they’re exempt from the phrase in the deed”. When pressed with the legal affidavit filed by their own team from their lead designer from the last round in the court where he said “a yacht constitutes all the parts needed to sail it including rudders and sails” (I paraphrase closely – out of time to look up the exact wording but this is extremely close), Alinghi agreed to sit and discuss it in Singapore.

With the deadline looming for BMWO to file suit against Alinghi’s sails and be heard in time before the match is to begin on Feb. 8th, they sat down in Singapore. Both sides blame the other for the implosion of the discussions and with the NDA required by Alinghi, it will be some time before we ever know exactly what happened there. What we do know is that 8 drafts of an agreement were written up by the Alinghi team. BMWO and a representative from US Sailing signed (what we believe to be) the last revision but after a call from Singapore to the Alinghi leadership, Alinghi refused to sign. Alinghi claims that it was because BMWO initiated their suit against their sails in New York. BMWO says we told them we would initiate the suit on Tuesday if an agreement wasn’t in place and it was already Wednesday. Sooooo…nothing came out of the discussions in Singapore.

The legal documents were filed by BMWO which (in my opinion) made a pretty good case that seaming custom fit panels and sewing on eyes to their corners doesn’t constitute “manufactured” when the panel was custom molded from scratch elsewhere. They also presented a good bit of America’s cup history where the origin of the sails – sometimes even the raw materials that went into them – was a big point of contention. Alinghi’s rebuttle documentation went all over the place and did little to address BMWO’s suit. They basically implied that if the court is to rule on the CiC (Constructed in Country) status of Alinghi’s sails, they should look at BMWO’s hydraulics (a club member saw a box at an Italian hydraulic manufacturer warehouse headed for BMWO), and the BMWO engine. They also argued that the case shouldn’t be heard until after a race happens. Their tactic seemed to be more of one to daze and confuse – but this is Alinghi’s newly hired law firm (their 3rd now). BMWO’s final filling blew me away – it was concise, to the point, and really seemed to drill home that yes, sails are part of a “yacht”, yes they need to be CiC, and they proceeded to shoot down Alinghi’s counter claims against their own boat going so far as to show several examples where they went to great length to ensure that their boat conformed (the Italian hydraulics were used initially but they had contracted with the American arm of the same company to have the hydraulic system remanufactured in the US once it was debugged and proven out…all the Italian components were replaced). Coutts has actually said in some interviews that even the oil from which the carbon fibers were derived came from US soil.

The commodore of SNG (Alinghi’s club) Fred, stated that if “BMWO was successful in DSQ’ing their yacht in the courts, there would be no match”. Many were on pins and needles wondering if this thing would actually happen…and we began wondering what the fallout would be after all this money has been spent if they pulled the plug in such a manner. (note, however, BMWO wasn’t trying to DSQ Alinghi – they were just trying to prevent them from using US constructed sails….on multiple occasions they offered Alinghi time to build sails that conform to the CiC clause in the Deed).

Meanwhile, in Valencia Spain, the teams have been getting some practice in. The America’s Cup Race Committee set a test course yesterday so they could get some practice as well – and they offered it up to the two teams to get some practice as well. With 7 knots of wind (and the water barely disturbed) USA-17 (BMWO) approached the start line with the wing dialed in, and flying two hulls. At some point, we have a report of USA-17 being measured making 28 knots in these conditions. A “bang” was heard by the observers at the race committee and USA-17 returned to base to repair a reportedly minor failure with some of the flap rigging on the wing. They repaired their boat this afternoon and went out for a test sail at around 4pm. Alinghi also performed some test sailing yesterday and were out a day break this morning to do more testing.

This afternoon, after the courts had an opportunity to read the fillings, a conference call was had between the judge and representatives of both teams. We don’t yet know details, but the court case will not be heard until March. The court says “go race first and then we’ll sort it out”. So it’s game on now. 10 days and counting.

There will be internet coverage from various sources (possibly even an online site of ESPN). Sailing Anarchy says they’ll have an announcement on Monday about something they are working on as well. Racing will start at around 4:30am Eastern Standard time…I’ll be at my computer on Monday Feb. 8th at that time – will you?


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 5:18 pm
(@Anonymous 39832)
Posts: 3281
 
Quote
I’ll be at my computer on Monday Feb. 8th at that time – will you?

UGH! I have to be in Raleigh in my office!!!

I might have to play hooky.


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 5:54 pm
ACE11
(@aus917)
Posts: 169
Member
 

Is that start time GMT -5hrs? Hope my calculations are right - that's Monday 7.30pm where I am - sweet.


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 6:46 pm
(@krona)
Posts: 87
Mate Registered
 

Thanks Jake... I was just thinking I needed to go through a bunch of sites trying to catch up... and I saw your condensed post.. <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Bjorn


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 7:45 pm
(@Dan_DeLave)
Posts: 956
Master Chief Registered
 

Jake:

Maybe you could refer to it with it's new name USA17.

Dan


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 8:28 pm
ACE11
(@aus917)
Posts: 169
Member
 

Or perhaps more accurately NZL/AUS/NED17


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 8:42 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

Dan - I thought I did.

Ace - yup...that's GMT-5...you dog.

check out the latest BMWO video...it's a nice moderately informative video - but the last 10 seconds are pretty darn cool (crank up the volume...the music is understated - but key).


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 10:25 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
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Topic starter
 

And let me apologize for being a little biased in that summary...I try to be relatively neutral in those but I was short on time and as things are drawing tighter, my bias is becoming stronger as I grow impatient with what I feel are poor decisions by Alinghi/SNG that not only put the America's Cup in jeopardy but really detract from the event and will potentially leave us in court for an extended period after the event is concluded.


 
Posted : January 29, 2010 10:33 pm
(@Anonymous 39832)
Posts: 3281
 

No need to apologize for the bias. It just so happens that our team is rooted in sound basis of fact and the other is ... well, shall we say,

fantasy

.

Sails not part of a yacht.... bwhahaha


 
Posted : January 30, 2010 9:50 am
Todd A. Hart
(@team_cat_fever)
Posts: 3061
Captain Registered
 
Originally Posted by Jake
And let me apologize for being a little biased in that summary...I try to be relatively neutral in those but I was short on time and as things are drawing tighter, my bias is becoming stronger as I grow impatient with what I feel are poor decisions by Alinghi/SNG that not only put the America's Cup in jeopardy but really detract from the event and will potentially leave us in court for an extended period after the event is concluded.

Seeing how you are living in the good ol' USA I don't see any need for you to not to be biased. They may both be a couple of pain in the a$$ whiny rich guys(one definitively worse than the other), but I'll still root for the home team.


 
Posted : January 30, 2010 10:22 am
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

Some training footage from this morning.

Also noteworthy that Alinghi was towed out of site before they hoisted any sails - and they came back in at the end of the day with their sails lowered and stowed in bags. Do they have a different set that are CiC? What might they be hiding?

Yesterday a tarp showed up covering the center of the rear beam and the stern of the central hull on USA-17. Nobody seems to know what's under there...graphics? some new secret? Maybe something like

Eat this Alinghi!

. who knows?


 
Posted : January 30, 2010 3:15 pm
Tony_F18
(@Tony_FX1)
Posts: 2315
Captain Registered
 

Cool video but that engine is LOUD.


 
Posted : January 30, 2010 4:02 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

some great aerial shots from today's training

http://bmor-photo.com/_quot_USA_quot__pedal_down________aerials_--370--1-en-f.html


 
Posted : January 30, 2010 6:25 pm
hobie1616
(@hobie1616)
Posts: 2117
Captain Registered
 

Friday, 1/29/10 - Justice Kornreich of the New York Supreme Court informed the America's Cup defending yacht club, Société Nautique de Genève, and the challenging Golden Gate Yacht Club today via telephone conference that she will not hear the American challenger's complaint regarding the 'constructed in country' requirement of the Deed of Gift before the 33rd America's Cup Match which is scheduled to begin on February 8th.

This means the 33rd America's Cup is free to proceed as ordered by previous New York rulings: in Valencia on the 8, 10 and 12 February.

This is excellent news. We are delighted that BMW Oracle's attempts to disqualify Alinghi and to win the America's Cup in court have been denied. We look forward to meeting them on the start line here in Valencia on February 8th to race for the Cup; something they can no longer try to avoid,

said Ernesto Bertarelli.


 
Posted : January 31, 2010 6:18 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Friday, 1/29/10 - Justice Kornreich of the New York Supreme Court informed the America's Cup defending yacht club, Société Nautique de Genève, and the challenging Golden Gate Yacht Club today via telephone conference that she will not hear the American challenger's complaint regarding the 'constructed in country' requirement of the Deed of Gift before the 33rd America's Cup Match which is scheduled to begin on February 8th.

This means the 33rd America's Cup is free to proceed as ordered by previous New York rulings: in Valencia on the 8, 10 and 12 February.

This is excellent news. We are delighted that BMW Oracle's attempts to disqualify Alinghi and to win the America's Cup in court have been denied. We look forward to meeting them on the start line here in Valencia on February 8th to race for the Cup; something they can no longer try to avoid,

said Ernesto Bertarelli.

The spin machine is on full speed now. BMWO did not attempt to

DSQ

Alinghi...they were merely trying to get them to conform their sail inventory to the CiC clause in the Deed of Gift - and even offered time to allow them to remake sails to meet the requirement.

Alinghi NOT addressing this now leaves them susceptible to yet another way they may lose the cup should they manage to win on the water (albeit with illegal sails). It's like showing up to a Hobie regatta with a mylar Glen Ashby mainsail on your Hobie 16 but then publicly chastising anyone that protests you.


 
Posted : January 31, 2010 8:51 pm
TEAMVMG
(@TEAMVMG)
Posts: 1188
Master Chief Registered
 

Exactly 1 week to race 1 start
If I have got my timings right;

6knots offshore dropping to 2knots variable

Race abandoned?


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 3:23 am
(@Anonymous 37882)
Posts: 612
 

From the video BMW ORACLE Racing : Making of USA -

Using the most advanced materials and technology TO CREATE THE FASTEST SAILBOAT THAT`S EVER BEEN BUILT

.....
Perhaps BMWO should be expecting a letter from Hydroptere`s legal team. <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 3:28 am
Aido
 Aido
(@aido)
Posts: 229
Member
 

Mate i dont think Hydroptere would see which way that weapon went around a DOG course. If its not the officially the fastest, its definitely the Coolest.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 3:58 am
ACE11
(@aus917)
Posts: 169
Member
 

Woohoo

I'm warming the computer and cooling the tinnies already. Leave all the legal b@#&sh^* behind and let's get on with the sailing - even if it is almost NZL vs NZL!


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 4:47 am
(@wouter)
Posts: 9363
Three Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote
Mate i dont think Hydroptere would see which way that weapon went around a DOG course. If its not the officially the fastest, its definitely the Coolest.

It is only the fastest officially recorded sailboat over both on the 500 mtr stretch and the nautical mile and I REALLY don't see BMWO do 51.36 and 50.17 knots EVER.

It has beaten all other competitors, including the kiteboarders on this.

It the Hydropthere team didn't need a court room

in the process

.

http://www.sailspeedrecords.com/500-metre-records.html
http://www.sailspeedrecords.com/nautical-mile-records.html

Some respect by the court warriors may be warranted here

Wouter


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 5:18 am
(@Anonymous 37882)
Posts: 612
 

Like most here, I`m also madly in love with this boat, can watch the videos of it all day long. (Hmm, wonder why my work is suffering?).
My point was just that they shouldn`t make claims that are untrue, it is misleading and misinforming the general public who don`t know the truth. Perhaps their claim should be qualified by

in light to medium winds

- That would bring it closer to the truth. Not taking anything away from them, that machine is totally awesome.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 5:38 am
(@Anonymous 39832)
Posts: 3281
 

Its also faster in a wider range of conditions. 28 knots in as little as 7 knots of breeze has been reported. Any video you see hydroptere in - its blowin stink.

After the cup, there's going to use DZ for speed attempt records.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 7:28 am
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 
Originally Posted by Steve_Kwiksilver
From the video BMW ORACLE Racing : Making of USA -

Using the most advanced materials and technology TO CREATE THE FASTEST SAILBOAT THAT`S EVER BEEN BUILT

.....
Perhaps BMWO should be expecting a letter from Hydroptere`s legal team. <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

First, we don't know what the top speed of USA-17 is....but I've heard (from some sources that have proven to be rather reliable) rumors that put USA-17 in Hydroptere category. Besides, Hydroptere is only fast on deep reaches and when the wind is just right...it goes upwind like a three toed sloth and can hardly move in anything under 18 knots.

[Linked Image]

While I do agree it's a bit presumptuous for them to make a wide blanket statement like that, in general and in the majority conditions and points of sail, I would say that USA-17 is faster than Hydroptere.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 7:45 am
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

new video this morning


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 7:46 am
(@Anonymous 7896)
Posts: 159
 

Jake,

Thanks for taking the time to keep us all updated on what's happening with this event. If it weren't for you I would probably know very little about the details of what is going on. After reading your first post on this thread I am baffled as to why you aren't writing for some top sailing magazine. Keep it up if you can. I really appreciate being able to get all of my info from this site.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 8:02 am
pgp
 pgp
(@pgp48)
Posts: 4470
Member
 

Is this the verbiage you're looking for?

fastest course racing boats ever built.

From

T minus 7

on SA's front page.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 8:32 am
Tony_F18
(@Tony_FX1)
Posts: 2315
Captain Registered
 

I'm leaving for Valencia on Sunday and will try to post some pics, by the looks of it I will be on a spectator boat for the starts.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 8:50 am
(@Anonymous 39832)
Posts: 3281
 

So the UAE was safe to go sail in eh?

According to the UK Guardian - the US administration TODAY is deploying 2 patriot missile batteries to Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and.... *gasp* UAE.

Safe indeed Bertarelli!! You would have had Patriot Missile batteries protecting your little boat race that could have been anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere but you fucked up and went with the

Walden Pond

choice.

Hahaha.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 9:08 am
(@david.ingram)
Posts: 3879
Captain Registered
 
Originally Posted by Undecided
So the UAE was safe to go sail in eh?

According to the UK Guardian - the US administration TODAY is deploying 2 patriot missile batteries to Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and.... *gasp* UAE.

Safe indeed Bertarelli!! You would have had Patriot Missile batteries protecting your little boat race that could have been anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere but you fucked up and went with the

Walden Pond

choice.

Hahaha.

Wow! That is a lot of anger no offset boy. It is Monday though... carry on.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 9:49 am
(@tcatman)
Posts: 3070
Captain Registered
 

Huh!

What did I say....?

Thanks Jake for your great summaries!.... SA really wore me out...


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 9:56 am
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