Welcome Guest
Catamaran Sailing at TheBeachcats.com Logo
Notifications
Clear all

America's Cup - 10 days to go!

102 Posts
23 Users
0 Reactions
45.8 K Views
(@Anonymous 39832)
Posts: 3281
 
Quote
Wow! That is a lot of anger no offset boy.

You confuse anger for glee.

And I'm president of the

Offsets are for Dummies (and Dings)

club 😛


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 10:14 am
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

Alinghi broke something on their mainsail / mast today while out training. Initial reports point to the downhaul or something else relatively minor. Their sails came down and they were towed back in after about 1/2 day's worth of sailing. We probably will not hear what the exact breakage was (Alinghi has been exceptionally secretive about this kind of stuff - more so now). However, the seriousness can be easily judged by if the mast stays rigged and when they get back out for more training. I would get nervous for them if they don't get out sailing tomorrow.

I hope this race doesn't come down to who can keep their boats together longer.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 2:41 pm
(@Anonymous 37882)
Posts: 612
 

I hope this race doesn't come down to who can keep their boats together longer.

I`m sure it will play a factor - if it does, my money`s on the three-toed sloth to win.. <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />
If they can match Hydroptere`s speeds and go for some records after the DOG match, that will be something special.


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 3:16 pm
(@Dan_DeLave)
Posts: 956
Master Chief Registered
 

I still cannot decide if we are seeing a trimaran or a catamaran with a pod on USA 17. The amas are longer than the main hull whick looks to be about 70 feet. Seems easy for them to fly on one hull, even in light breeze. Rudders and daggerboards on the amas. I really like this boat and I am not usually too enthralled by Tris, so I am thinking of it as a catamaran with a pod. <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />

Big Fan of Catamarans,
Dan DeLave


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 6:45 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

The center hull on DZ is almost exactly 90 feet. Amas are 100+ feet.

It's a machine that was designed for maximum LOA for a 90' LWL..built for pure efficiency given a limit on water line length - it's hard not to admire it's lines simply from that perspective.

I do like the way Alinghi's catamaran looks too. I think it's a terrfic looking boat and the suspension system under it really makes it stiff. However, in nearly every video I see it sail, I get the feeling that when the breeze is up that the boat is just too light and they can't put the power down on the water. Hard to tell just from videos though. We should know in one week from tomorrow!


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 8:31 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

The International Jury (IJ) met for 6.5 hours today to hear the redress filings by BMWO today...they must have taken it seriously. Alinghi attempted to have the hearing behind closed doors but both BMWO and the IJ objected - it was apparently open door. The ISAF is really (finally) starting to show up as an independent party.

They expect some decisions in the morning (in Spain).

BMWO release on the hearing is here

Quote
Under consideration were five vital requests by GGYC to ensure fair and
equitable racing:
• Can the defender unilaterally select wind and wave limits?
• Is Mutual Consent required to select race start times?
• Can wind detection equipment be used?
• Can friction reduction systems be used?
• Are the regatta rules contradictory?


 
Posted : February 1, 2010 8:34 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

no word on the IJ decisions this morning...but they did already rule on two significant issues before them yesterday.

1) whether the hearing should be open to media or not. Alinghi said no, BMWO said yes, IJ said yes.

2) Alingh countered that BMWO is not entitled to redress because it was speculative and no damage to BMWO has taken place. BMWO countered that the rules contain the word

possible damage

in regards the NOR redress rule #62. IJ ruled that BMWO is entitled to file for redress on these issues.

They're in the meeting now - apparently none of the media are texting reports out to the public like we had in the New York court hearings...but we should hear something soon.

IJ scorecard:

BMWO: 2
Alinghi: 0


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 8:33 am
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

Alinghi was towed out of harbor apparently for another day of training. Damage yesterday must have been pretty minor.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 9:01 am
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

Alinghi broke their jib halyard this morning.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 12:40 pm
(@Anonymous 39832)
Posts: 3281
 

Trey must be doing their splicing 😛


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 12:56 pm
(@Anonymous 38725)
Posts: 5859
 

I hope these guys get all the bugs sorted out before the racing begins or this could be the biggest race that never happened!


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 1:09 pm
Todd A. Hart
(@team_cat_fever)
Posts: 3061
Captain Registered
 
Originally Posted by Undecided
Trey must be doing their splicing 😛

That's funny.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 1:23 pm
(@brucat)
Posts: 3939
Member
 

I thought only Hobie 16s broke jib halyards? All of us who have been doing this for any amount of time carry a spare in the trailer.

Mike


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 1:30 pm
Todd A. Hart
(@team_cat_fever)
Posts: 3061
Captain Registered
 

You probably oughta send Ernesto that tip.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 1:46 pm
(@TurboCat)
Posts: 249
Mate Registered
 

espn360.com shows the 33rd AC on their online listings so apparently it will be on their site as well as americascup.com


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 1:51 pm
(@brucat)
Posts: 3939
Member
 

Too late...


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 2:02 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 
Originally Posted by TurboCat
espn360.com shows the 33rd AC on their online listings so apparently it will be on their site as well as americascup.com

I haven't tried it yet but I hear the ESPN 360 site player is pretty slow and unreliable. The America's Cup website is nice - I hope they're ready for the bandwidth demands!

Sailing Anarchy claims to have something in the works too - we'll see.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 2:57 pm
(@_removed-account)
Posts: 15030
Four Star Admiral Registered
 
Originally Posted by brucat
I thought only Hobie 16s broke jib halyards? All of us who have been doing this for any amount of time carry a spare in the trailer.

Mike

maybe they are going back to the beach/sailbox


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 3:04 pm
(@themanshed)
Posts: 651
Chief Registered
 

Alinghi needed to spend more time on the boat and in the water instead of court! GO BMWO! Perhaps they thought they could win a

waterless

America's Cup?


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 3:08 pm
(@powergroove)
Posts: 1224
Master Chief Registered
 

Vancouver Winter Games and AC are the same time this year, not that makes any difference to me, but guess where the media will go...


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 5:29 pm
(@brucat)
Posts: 3939
Member
 

Isn't the Olympic coverage all bought up by NBC and its affiliates? Meaning, there are at least three other major networks, plus ESPN and Versus, who are free to pony up for the AC.

Oh yeah, ESPN is tied up with Winter X.

Mike


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 7:15 pm
Todd A. Hart
(@team_cat_fever)
Posts: 3061
Captain Registered
 

Anybody have any luck with the ESPN 360 player? I can't get it to work. I need a Tad.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 8:01 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

OK - IJ ruled on the measurement issued presented by BMWO this evening. If you recall this has come up in the New York Courts after Alinghi released the first NOR. Besides the shocking new way that NOR attempted to include rudders in BMWO's Length on Load Waterline (LWL) measurement, it also permitted the boats to take on and dump ballast that was not included in the boat measurement while racing. The Court ruled that this was not legal because it would permit the boats to effectively increase their LWL after measurement. The Deed of Gift places only a few design restrictions on the boats and LWL is the primary one.

The latest NOR and Sailing Instructions are seemingly conflicting about ballast. In some places it references that ballast will be handled in according with the ruling of the courts, and in others it has the same wording that permits ballast to be added and dumped after measurement and while under way. BMWO filled for redress on this point. I haven't seen the exact details but it sounds like neither team can score a complete win on the issue. The teams and the IJ watched a presentation by the Chief (and only) Measurer and there was much debate. According to Pierre at Valencia Sailing :

Quote
Now, concerning the hearing, it was long and tedious, going into minute technical details at moments. I have to admit that out of all the presentations Russell Coutts made the most convincing one, especially when he used a diagram to demonstrate the extreme scenario of a team placing 3,000kg of lead at the stern of the yacht as ballast and then throwing it in the sea 30 seconds before the start. The 33rd America's Cup Chief Measurer seemed cornered.

The IJ seemed satisfied by the presentation of the Measurer and their ruling is effectively

it's up to the measurer

. We haven't seen the Measurer's presentation but it appears that the end result appears to be that teams will be permitted to take on and discharge ballast while under way. However, they have to have the maximum amount of ballast onboard during measurement. That's simple enough - but it gets more complicated related to the distribution. There have been some comments that the ballast has to be in a

performance enhancing position

but it's not clear if this is actually the case.

Both boats are longer than the 90' LWL limit but at rest, they both have methods of only touching the water at a length of 90 but with large suspended overhangs. BMWO, uses the center hull of the trimaran to carry most of the boat's weight while at rest and the amas skim the water at the center. Obviously, when heeled and on one hull, the entire 100 or 110' length of the ama is in the water. At the time BMWO challenged for the cup, it was inconceivable for these boats to take on and discharge ballast water. BMWO has since added some ballast tanks to take some advantage of whatever Alinghi rule changes they couldn't stop.

BMWO's Trimaran at rest. you can see how the center hull supports the amas.
[Linked Image]

Alinghi has been trying to slip in this rule for some time now as their lightweight catamaran really needs the ballast to be competitive in breeze - but they want to dump that water to take advantage of it's light weight construction for light air.

So what's the big deal with the ballast rule? Alinghi has several ballast tanks inside it's hulls including some large ones in the sterns. Over time, we have seen their catamaran exhibit very different stern weights while at rest and while under way. With these large tanks in the rear of the boat, they can pump all their ballast water to the extreme rear which effectively causes it to

pop a wheelie

. If this ballast was distributed evenly, the LWL of their boat would measure at 115'. When popping a wheelie, it would measure 90' or less. And this puts us back to the Deed of Gift in that the redistribution of the ballast would permit them to sail a boat that if it were measured in that condition, would exceed the 90' LWL limit.

Alinghi popping a wheelie:
[Linked Image]

It's not entirely clear if the measurer will require the boats to place their ballast in race trim. Based on the luke warm response by BMWO in their press release this evening, I suspect that it's possible for Alinghi to pop a wheelie for measurement. The positive takeaway for BMWO is that the boats have to measure with the maximum amount of ballast on board and that the boats can't measure empty and then add 3 tons of water immediately after measuring in. The positive for Alinghi is that they can dump ballast and better trim their lighter boat for different conditions.

In every single iteration of the America's Cup - including the only other time the event came down to a Deed Of Gift match similar to this one, the measurements and measurement decisions were carried out by a committee. Alinghi put only one man in charge of this responsibility and one things for sure - I wouldn't want to be the Chief Measurer. The result of the entire event could rest squarely on his shoulders

IJ Ruling Scorecard (I'm ruling this one a tie):

BMWO: 2.5
Alinghi: 0.5

PS - how in the world do you ensure that either team is not taking on more ballast water than they measured with during the race? They can load up and dump seawater at will - it's going to be a tough one to manage.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 9:29 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Anybody have any luck with the ESPN 360 player? I can't get it to work. I need a Tad.

I haven't tried but I heard it sucked. Stay tuned here and I'll post a list of the live feed links I find - I'm trying to really stay dialed into that. If I'm going to get up at 3:45am I'm going to make sure I have planned every way possible to see ~something~.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 9:38 pm
Todd A. Hart
(@team_cat_fever)
Posts: 3061
Captain Registered
 

cool. Your right on it.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 9:44 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

I guess we better start to distribute some links.

The official event website setup by the city of Valencia Spain. It will have links to live coverage though I suspect that they may not anticipate the internet bandwidth they are about to be hit with...but it may be a good spot to find text news and possibly up to the minute video:
http://33rd.americascup.com

www.americascup.com
As a subset of that Valencia website, they claim they will be feeding live video at www.americascup.com. PLEASE NOTE that you will probably have to register to see the feed. That could mean that once they start red lining their bandwidth, they'll shut down registration. I was able to register a couple of days ago but I don't see the link to register anywhere on there now. Check early, check often. This could be one of the best sources.

www.Espn360.com
I just discovered that Jobson and Randy Smyth will be covering the event for ESPN360 (thanks Karl!) so this will probably be worth checking out. I would imagine that ESPN360 would be better prepared for a lot network demand. PLEASE NOTE: you will also need to register and setup an account with ESPN360. It is FREE but takes some time...do it early. Their player is intensive on bandwidth and CPU so if you have an older PC and/or limited internet bandwidth, you may have some difficulty with it. The player requires a few plugins and you will probably have browser compatibility problems if you are not running a 'mainstream' browser. Be sure your security is set to something less than

nuclear power station

and use (gasp) Internet Explorer 8 for the best chance of running it. Watch your upper notification bar at the top of the IE8 window - it will need to install several software plug ins to work and the notifications will pop up there in a faint yellow bar asking permission. It works pretty well for me (I've got a new computer running Windows 7 64bit and a speedy internet connection).

www.SailingAnarchy.com
SailingAnarchy just got sponsored by Layline for the coverage and is working with one of the Italian teams from the last America's Cup to get their reporters out on the water. They also have some deal setup with an internet company that provides internet access for boaters (cruisers). Supposedly they are expecting to be able to upload a lot of stuff quickly. Sometimes hard to watch, sometimes juvenile, but sometimes ground breaking and without fear...the SA coverage will be interesting. I don't believe you will have to pre-register or anything for this one.

That's it so far...I'll keep you guys posted on any new additions to the list.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 10:22 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
Topic starter
 

interesting tid-bit. Did you know that USA-17 would have to time low tide just right in order to sail under the Golden Gate Bridge to keep the wing from hitting the bridge's deck?

Have you ever peered off the edge of the Golden Gate? That's incredible.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 10:37 pm
Todd A. Hart
(@team_cat_fever)
Posts: 3061
Captain Registered
 

I thought Layline was gone.


 
Posted : February 2, 2010 11:29 pm
ACE11
(@aus917)
Posts: 169
Member
 

Thanks for the links Jake. I registered for downloads with the ESPN site but then they told me my ISP wasn't signed up with them. They only feed to a select list which seem to be US only. Makes sense I guess as their content is US sport which wouldn't be of much interest to the rest of the world. So I'm left to try the AC site and as you said there doesn't seem to be a way to register at the moment.................
Grrrrrrr.


 
Posted : February 3, 2010 2:18 am
Tony_F18
(@Tony_FX1)
Posts: 2315
Captain Registered
 

I had no problems registering a few days ago.
They ask you install the player, all went very smooth.
Any ideas why it is so hard to get things aired in the US?


 
Posted : February 3, 2010 3:05 am
Page 2 / 4
Secret Link