Australian F18 Nats- Ashby dominating!!!

Question: Why does Ashby, an Aussie legend, sail a Hobie Tiger and not a Capricorn or other Aussie brand boat? Does he have a contract from Hobie or does he believe the Tiger is the best of the pack?

Mike.

Tiger's sweeping the top 5 at the Oz F18 Titles just like they did at the F18 NA's. Are they the best of the pack or is that where the competition is? Competitive sailors gravitate toward the competitive boats. Tiger's rule.

He's under Hobie contract. Hobie has deep pockets for their pro team. Coming out of the Formula 18 Worlds the Capricorn is considered the new hot design.
Ted

With the bonus matrix having been blown up by their winning margin at the F18 NAs, we spent our deep pocket wad on Greg and Jacques this year... just kidding. They sail because they love to. Not for cash. They work their butts off around the calendar here at the factory and then sail regattas on their own time for the most part. They get a little travel support, but nothing you would call deep pocket worthy.

I will have to check with Steve Fields in Australia, but we think (here in the US) that Ashby is sailing for a local dealer down there. There are no deep pockets for team sailors in our company (Our company includes Australia).

Just chatted with Steve...

Ashby got a boat to sail. No contract.

The most experienced F-18 sailors in OZ race the tigers. At the Worlds just gone, if you take out the paid pros... The manufactures list is very open with the Capricorn showing very good speed. Many including Gashby / Bundy believe that the Capricorn, with equal sailors on board are the quickest of the F-18s.

We also have a new home built F-18 in Oz built by Mark Laruffa. He calls it the "Predator"

See attached

pic 2 of the "Predator"

"If" others (F18) are quicker, then why don't they finish better in Aus?

pros or no pros, they just don't cut it do they?

The last I looked Brad Collett, Brad Sumner, Mal Gray are not pro's.

Cheers
Steve

The difference in performance between the F18's I've sailed (extensively both the Nacra and the Tiger) are very very minor. Both the Nacra and the Hobie Tiger trade off weaknesses and strengths as the wind and water conditions change - even those strengths or weaknesses are exceptionally minor. There are more Hobie Tigers out there than any other F18 platform and arguably more highly skilled teams are sailing Tigers (among other things, leading to more development) so it's pretty natural that the Tigers are leading more often.

If there is little difference between the boats, do the sailmakers make any difference?
Is everyone using the same sailmaker? Are last years sails as fast as this years sails?
Have the boats gotten to a point where all the sails look the same shape?
ie. vertical distribution of draft

This year's F18 North Americans saw predominantly manufacturer's sails. From what I know, only in two cases were the sails from a 2nd party. Alex Shafer and Nigel Pitt were using "Performance" sails that come factory on European Nacras. Mike Krantz and David Lennard were using a set of sails produced by Ullman. If you peel away several layers, Zuchulli Ullman (sp?) is heavily involved in the development of the Hobie sails (from what I understand) I believe in Italy.

Of the factory sails present at NA's, there were basically two varieties of Hobie sails and two varieties of Nacra sails. The older variety Nacra and Hobie look similar in shape with a smaller square top as do the newer Nacra and Hobie sharing a similar shape both with a bigger square top. The new Hobie main is refered to as STX.

Results at NA's were mixed. 1st place was using the newer Hobie STX main, 2nd place was using the older Hobie style. Alex and Nigel were doing pretty well with the Performance sails and Mike and David did pretty well with the set from Ullman. Sail types were pretty jumbled up throughout the results...we were using a one year old set of the 'old style' Nacra sails.

Susan was using old main & old small Hobie Jib & spin

I'll stick my nose in where it doesn't belong. It ain't the boat. 5 or 6 of the top 10 at the F18 came from the very competitive H16 fleet. They have all sailed many regatta's with big fleets and done many national events. That's how you learn to be a good racer (hasn't worked for me yet).
They probably could switch boats and do just as well. Time on the water(TOW),as they say.

BINGO

Hobie sailors go racing... I'll bet if you look at the how many events the hard core Hobie 16 sailors do compared to monohull dinghy's or other cat classes you will see that they have 5 or 6 buoys events a year and 15+ years of experience behind them. AND they travel to go racing.

That commitment keeps things going and puts them at the front of the fleet ...

The trick to bringing the number of racers up is to get new people involved but competing at the appropriate level... The B and C fleet's of days gone by were the key to racing's growth... Our inability to keep those numbers going costs us. Beginers or people sticking their toe in the racing game must have some way to feel some success in the racing game. Any thoughts???

Mark

Mark,

I just moved to Annapolis a few months ago. I am interested in getting into racing and would like to crew before I skipper a boat. I have hread of (but haven't gotten down to) WRCRA on the East River. Are there any other cat racing fleets in the area? Anyone you know of looking for crew. I ahve been pleasure sailing cats for about 6 years now plus a couple hundred hours of sea time in some very large mono-hulls.

Hi Nick

Saturday in West River... We have 20 boats racing in the CBYRA Big Boat event the West River Twilight Race.

2 pm start so you want to be there 10 to 12 to talk with folks and check out the scene... Another guy is coming down to look at F18's.

Half the fleet will start from the WRCRA lot on Church street.... the other half will start from the WRSC lot about a block away down and to the right. check out both.

The Crab feast will start at 6PM... you can still get your name on the list and pay at the door.

First thing to do though is get on the yahoogroup www.sailcrac.com list serve. This will get you all of the fleet emails... people looking for crew etc etc. Then check out www.sailcrac.com and the CRAC web site. linked on that page for all of the info you need.

Take Care
Mark

WE are doing the misnamed

Hi Steve,

If you read my post again you will see that I was refering to the worlds with regards to the paid pros. Not the Oz champs.

With regards to the Oz F-18 fleet. The Tiger sailors just happened to be the more experienced, better prepared, more seasond racers at this point in time. They have come from other Hobie classes where racing was very competitive.

As you see good sailors from other classes move into the F-18 class, you will see the other manufactures lift thier results. Gashby came from the top of the A's to join the hobie camp. Bundy came from T's to do likewise. Cookie and Fabio have come from a very experienced local Taipan 4.9 fleet and with only limited regattas in the Capricorn copared to others in the top and have done extremely well.

The Capricorn is a very quick boat and as we are seeing, top sailors are slowly looking at this class and Capricorn results are improving rapidly. We are already starting to see this in Europe and will start to see it in Oz very soon. It is only very early days for the Capricorn. Hobie have offered the likes of Bundy, Gashby, Booth ect(3 off the worlds best cat sailors) boats to compete in so as to stay on top of the leader board. AHPC are yet to offer one of their boats to a world class pro to get results for them.

See you on the water in the new season.

Hi Steve,

It's good to see that you, the more experienced, better prepared, more seasond racer from the "T-class" will see the boat get results in Australia and finish in the top three.

Steve

Why is it you guys are so cheap anyway?

Ouch , cheap shot

See ya in the new season. Do you plan to make any trips up to KCC. Look forward to getting the Yarra, KCC and other NSW F-18s together on a regular basis. May be once a month co-ordinate traveling to another F-18 club.

Becuase they are running a business, not a charity for good sailors. Loaning a boat gives them a lot of promotional value for very little expense - in other words, a very businesslike decision.

They're not exactly unmodified factor boats either.

this said, I found out that Greg Thomas and Jacques Bernier represented very well the Hobie brand. Fantastic sailors, very friendly and giving a lot of tips (in other words, no rock stars). On the top of that, good sportmanship after the OCS, run ALL the races (even if they did not need to) which shows some respect to the other competitors and the organization. Wether they are paid or not does matter too much for me.

You talking about the Aussie Tigers or Greg and Jacques' boat? Just what is it that you think is modified from stock?

I did not intend to refer to Greg and Jacques' boat - I haven't had to conversation with them but I would guess that they are sailing a full up factory boat. I was, rather, referring to the boats sailed by the likes of Ashby and Bundock. According to some that have been to the recent F18 Worlds the leading boats have custom foils, sails, and in some cases, masts.

Jake,

I can't really say for the F18 Worlds, that was a Hobie Cat France venue. Like each of the recent F18 events, they are... F18 events, not Tiger events, so there can be many changes that fit the F18 rules. We have not heard that there were any big new things they tried on those boats.

As far as this threads topic, the Aussie F18 event... according to Steve Fields when I spoke with him last week, the boats at the Aussie F18 event were stock. He can better confirm that if he gets a chance to post here.

At the North American Event. Only the top spot was a "factory" team and they were sailing a completely stock boat. We really cannot refer to Greg and Jacques as "pro" sailors either. They are office workers and hadn't even raced since the Alter Cup in the beginning of May. Hardly what you would think the description would be of a "pro" team.

Not to steal any thunder or contradict, but my understanding from talking to them is that they're on a stock 2006 boat... which is only just now becoming available for purchase. New jib and the blue 'chute, along with the STX main that just started shipping a few months ago. My opinion is that they'd do pretty well with the original mustard pinhead, but that's, of course, not what they choose to race on.

So, stock Matt? Yep. For 2006.

Steve just filled me in some more on the Aussie F18 winners boats...

Ashby and Collett were on stock (used, from the Tiger Worlds) boats and STX sails. Stock boards, masts... Sumner was on a two year old boat.

National Champions Glenn Ashby and Andrew Williams on the way to taking the title

Yeah... that is a stock Hobie Tiger. Standard white boards and rudders, sails and mast.

Steve thinks the last F18 Worlds (Italy) leaders there were basically stock Tigers. Some may have had the carbon daggers and or blades that are available to anyone and have been for some time.

John, You mean Greg and Jacques Boat? No their boat is a 2005 that they sailed at the Tiger Worlds. Their spinnaker is the older cut. They had the STX sails that we have been selling with 2005 boats. At the Hobie Tiger Worlds they had to use the older cut. The STX will not be Tiger Class approved till January 2006.

hmmm - I must have misunderstood them about the jib and spin being stock sails for 2006. Jacques sounded pretty definite, but we were in a bar, so...

Matt, there's nothing wrong with the 'factory' team sailing with the best and latest gear. I don't think anyone would expect anything different. I was surprised when Greg was explaining to me that they only get time off to do a certain number of regattas each year. If you have any pull, you should help them to not have to choose only two events among the Tiger Continentals, F18NAs, ISAF World Games and Tiger Worlds. They would represent the US and Hobie USA well in ALL of them. Mango should cough up some budget for the poster boys - after all, they're making his job much easier on the fiberglass side of the house. Now if we could just get some Bravo regattas going, or maybe *gasp* get behind a Wave event, we could make his job easier on the plastic side, too.

Incidentally - I built two 2005 Tigers this year. Second one had the STX and first one didn't.

Ok, well... thread officially hijacked! I'll pipe down.