Box & Formula Rules and Classes

Hi Kris
I think you summed it up pretty well.
I would take issue with this statement.

I would change it to

SCHRS or Texel formulas to compute performance BASED on measured parameters.

I think the historians would note that the Formula part of the name was driven by the notion that the rules allowed you to use a crew weight formula and come up with a different sail plan to match your team's size.

The Nacra F17 class used the same argument to match two spinakers to sailors of different weights.

I don't think it was quite as marketing driven as you conclude. Now a days... the Formula part is indeed just marketing the brand... eg Kleenex... for tissue paper. The small sail plan appears to be not truly competitive with the large sails.

Mark-

I lifted that part from the International F18 website as my attempt to discover how

formula

became part of the name for box rule classes. It may be a case with translating to english relative to phraseology.
International Formula18 History .

Not true. The only people who say that have never tried the lower weight category and small sails. The formula works great; if anything, I think the small sail plan is favored. Same main sail, and the newer designs have tremendous buoyancy... makes a light team scream upwind and sail deeper/faster on the run. Personal experience both as a skipper and a crew on the Capricorn, Infusion and C2 with big and small sails, and on the Wildcat and Tiger in addition.

Kris,

What is the reason you are asking, other than morbid curiosity?

I think you did a great job of digging up enough info, and from what I know of the rules (minimal compared to many here), I would say that there are elements of both box rules and formulas for each of these classes.

Again, not really sure what the label buys you here.

Mike

Mike,

I do have an agenda and admit that I have only been racing

formula

class boats since 2007 so I have much to learn about the inception of the

formula

beachcat classes. I am an advocate for the

formula classes

concept and see many strengths that it has to offer relative to racing, sailors, and manufacturers. I see nothing but growth for these classes.

I frequently come across both catamaran and monohull sailors that immediately think that we are

true

formula classes and not box rule classes based on the name. As part of our advocacy, a colleague and I are meeting with a sailor who successfully campaigned 12-Meter keel boats in the America's Cup. Accordingly, I would like to be prepared when asked why is a

box rule

class labeling itself as a

formula

class. The 12-Meter's Formula Class existed long before the concept of F18 beachcats. It is easy to understand that the F14 and F16 classes adopted the same nomenclature established by the F18 class because they utilize similar class concepts and objectives. However, I am grasping for a definitive reason why the

box rule

Formula 18 class elected to use

formula

in its name.

Formula rules can limit building materials also .Box rules do not.
A and C class cats are box rules- You can use anything to build them.Sky is the limit.
The F-18s are formula because of material limitations( aluminum stick, No carbon, etc). I can't speak for F-16 because I never read their rules.

At least that's my take on it.

I would say the F18's and F16's are actually Box type rules, as there is no real

Formula

or math exercise involved, just a measuring of maximum and minimums; length, width, weight, sail area, etc.

So...should we now rename our classes; B18 and B16?

;^)

Todd... I think that your definition is simply your take on it.

The limitations that you think makes for a formula vs box rule are better described as class rules... similar to the no electronics rules that classes may choose.

The larger sailing community assumes formula class means a mathematical equation which is the design rule. Those rules give you boats with a certain look. The goal was to work within the formula and come up with the fastest design. See 12 meter AC cup rules.

Then you have classes that form around some sort of RATING Rule... The idea being that boats designed to the rating would be one design in performance but have slightly different choices for the owners.

I have never heard of an F18 Formula... much less seen the math.

My read of the F18 history was that they had a Box in mind... 18 feet and max beam of 8'6 inches and 400 or so pounds. They also wanted the largest crew weight optimum and so they wanted one platform with two sail plans for crew weights. They had strong opinions on what the class rules must be so that they could stay independent of the major builders and continue with development in a controlled manner to preserve an owners value over time. So... the A class and C Class are simple box rules... (remember the Tornado is a B class boat) The F18 is a more complex box rule with many restrictions. A one design class is the most restrictive box of all...and in the end... they simply don't allow anything they did not build... even if it were identical.

I am pretty sure the Formula simply refers to the crew weight Formula they use AND to brand the class as distinct from the Hobie Tiger, Nacra inter 18 and Dart Hawk one design classes they were sucking in and to distingish the class from classes run by the builders. Remember, these one design classes had one sail plan and minimum crew weights to go along with the manufacturer only equipment restrictions.

The F16 class debated the alternate sail plan idea as part of the basis of their Formula for their F16 Box. ... They nixed the idea because the EU opinion was that the two sail plans did not live up to the billing (sorry JW). Their formula was the pretext that that by dropping the jib and hardware they would equalize one up and two up racing... with first across the line wins... They justified this assertion by computing the texel rating formulae and noting the slight differences should be fair around the race course. Again... this is NOT a formula class... rather a box rule with restrictions... (of course some would argue... not enough restrictions but that dog has been quiet lately)

Kris, My solution... explain the classes called Formula as crew weight formulas added to a box rule with nothing to do with design rules. Most big boat sailors are not that familiar with box rule classes either and so the general confusion with formula rules, rating formula classes and box rule big boat classes is just too deep . The simple solution is understandable and handles the real issue. Will my boat choice be obsolete tomorrow and in 5 years. ...

I always thought of us, F18s, as being a box rule boat with lots of restrictions. Those include the materials that the boat is made of as well as all the weight and sail area limitations. We fit in a box that was established, but have further to go with all our restrictions, not imposed on the box rule boats, which makes all the boats equal as possible.

We are a non-one-design that sails as if it were one-design because of our interpretation of a

formula

concept. I feel we are growing because of diverse manufacturers while keeping equal footing on the course.

Dan

OK....

Formula

is synonymous with

ingredients

not measurement technique. Formula classes can also employ a box rule, formula, or both for its measurements. 12-Meter keel boats do have materials (

ingredients

) limitations for its hulls. So far that works. Looked at the A-Cat ISAF class rules, 3 pages. Page 1 is just a cover page and page 3 are just a few lines. No materials restrictions. Love it!

Right!... but the formula that the class refers to is about crew weight to include teams from 260? to over 400 lbs. (leaving how effective it actually is aside)

This is not what a big boat monohull sailor will think of when we use the term

Formula

in conversation.

Now I'm just dizzy.

In basic terms a box rule provided min and or max values for certain parameters.

A formula rule allows flexibility of certain chosen parameters such that the end combination or formula ends up being equal. For example you may increase length if some corresponding reduction in width is taken into account. In a formula rule class it is possible for a 16 foot boat to race equal to an 18 provided both meet the formula.

Within either case there can be any number of restrictions for things like build materials or any number of measurements required. An A class is technically a box rule with relatively few restrictions. An F18 is also a box rule with a lot of restrictions.

There is a little bit of gray area in the F16 and F18, where the sea lawyers could make their pay, involved with the sail size and plan being changeable with weight or crew respectively. My take is these are fixed values, so still not Formula per say.

I think the F18 class chose

Formula 18

as the name because it sounds cooler than

Box 18

. Not to mention

F18

sounds like a fast jet,

B18

sounds like a slow bomber.

So its FB-18, or BF-18?

You could also go the direction of....

Box 18

sounds silly.

I vote for

BMF

18 or 16.

Cue the SHAFT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2cHkMwzOiM

I know what

f

stands for every time one of you finishes in front of me AND I'm pretty sure its not

formula

. If you change to

b

, don't worry, I'll still have something for that as well and it wont be

box

. You, YOU LALB!!!

I'll go back to slept now...

'Shaft is a bad mother- (Shut your mouth)

Who is the -CAT- that won't cop out, when there's danger all about...

the -BMF- 18 and -BMF- 16!

I guess I'll have to rename my boat, the John Shaft!

Can you dig it?

Kris,

Good luck finding one. My sense is that no one knows (or cares about) the difference. If I had to guess, the folks that started it all probably actually thought they were creating a formula rule.

I highly doubt you're going to get a

definitive

answer, especially here... <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

I still struggle to see where this would matter to anyone, other than maybe a Volvo or AC-level boat builder. Even the sponsors at that level care less about the boat rule, and more about the event (prestige, ROI, etc.).

Are you putting together a campaign? That would be COOL!!!

Mike

I've always thought Formula meant something completely different...

Isn't this a formula:
F18 = 18' length

I'm pretty sure you need some funky symbols like %,^,or@. The = thing is just too easy.

We could always invent a mathmatical formula, input all the Box Rule numbers, such that when you do the math, the

answer

comes out to either 18 or 16.

Where's Wouter?

To me, that formula on the bottle seems to be missing a symbol or two. Has anyone solved it?

Mike

In our case (F16 class) the formula used extensively was the Texel rating formula where the result wasn't some 12 meters but rather a performance number (The F18 rating as a matter of fact).

Later in the class history we simplified the rules to a more box-rule type of of class. Example; there used to be far greater freedom in sail area and luff length then now; then we used a formula to calculate a rated sail area and only limited that. Now we have simple max limits in area and luff length.

Other then that I agree that we are all (the F-classes) more a box rule setup then a formula setup. We choose the F-name in order to follow in the footsteps of the F18 class. Not much thought went into that particular aspect of the class.

Have modern, high - aspect mainsails jumped out of the box and now require rating adjustments to build a new box for fairness?

The 'Box Rule

was discussed during the MHC meeting this past fall. Carl Reigart, Portsmouth Committee Chair, expressed concern regarding fair ratings for designs under 'freedom of development.' Following an informal discussion we moved on with no concensus as to whether 'Box' boats should continue to be protected by

Class Rules,

or whether they should be penalized according to the current USSA Portsmouth rating modifiers.

My stand is that if an A Cat or

Formula

sailor buys a boat with a used main, he gets a base rating. If he replaces the main with a shiny new mainsail with a different shape, he gets a MN @.995. Unless he/she has an unlimited budget line, he/she better make a wise choice. Eventually, the Class Rating will be controlled, for all Class designs, in fairness under the PN Committee.

Check out the real meaning of 'Corinthian Sailing' sometime. You might agree that the AC is the purest example of

Corinthian Sailing." How many of us can afford that arms race?

PHRF and PN handicappers need to be at home now.

What's the logic there? To stifle development and create a massive headache for race organizers. Class rules dictate what's allowed for each class.If the sail doesn't fit the class it already get the penalty. A rating committee should rate the class not individual choices that fit with in the class rules. That would be a HUGE mistake unless you are looking to completely destroy portsmouth racing.