I have heared that cat sailing is decresing in some geographic areas. If so what areas is it decreasing and any reasons why? Also does anyone know of the geographic areas in which cats sailing in growing fairly rapidly?
Tom
I have heared that cat sailing is decresing in some geographic areas. If so what areas is it decreasing and any reasons why? Also does anyone know of the geographic areas in which cats sailing in growing fairly rapidly?
First of all everything is cyclical to some degree but I fear there is little hope for a comeback here. In our area (Southern California) the sport is all but non existent
due to the following reasons:1: In most areas you are not allowed to store a recreational vehicle where it can be seen from the street. This means you will need to pay between $140 and $225 a month to store you boat in a mast down area some distance from the beach which opens at 8AM and closes at 6PM.
2: Time- It takes quite a while to drive from your house to where you boat is stored, sign out the boat, drive to one of three launch ramps in all of LA and Orange counties that allow sailboats and set up, get launched and sail for a few hours before you need to tear down and get back before 6PM. No beach storage is allowed overnight.
3: The water here is 54'F in the winter and 62-68 in the summer. Cold by most standards. There really are no lakes as this is a desert. What lakes there are do not allow water contact of any type and generally catamarans are not allowed on them as they are potable water sources.
Lastly the sprot of sailing is almost non existent here due to pressures from mass appeal events like:
Theme parks- There are 7 of them within 100 miles of here.
PWC and power boats- Turn a key and you are yachting
Extreme sports- Dirt Bikes, off road etc
Soccer, football, cheerleading, baseball etc etc along with professional sports teams.
Snow skiing and Snowboarding is an hour and a half a away.
and on and on.I love the sport and still do it when I can. I will be buying a beachcat this spring to introduce my 11 year old to the sport and if she likes it we'll move up to something like a Reynolds 33.
It's a tough market out here and I hope this gives you a peek into why there is not a single Hobie Dealer or NACRA/Prindle/INTER dealer in Los Angeles...a city of some 17 million people.
Scary.
Mark Michaelsen
Luv dem beachcats
Oh, Mark, I didn't realize it was that bad in your area! What about yacht clubs that allow beach cats? And is the situation any better in San Diego? What about other parts of California?
Access to the water seems to be one of the biggest problems contributing to the decline of beach-cat sailing. Along with, as Mark said, local regulations that do not allow you to store your cat in your yard unless it is out of sight; and the high costs and inconvenience of storing it somewhere else.
Ironically and unfortunately, the places that have the most ideal sailing conditions are also the places where access to the water is increasingly closed off by resorts and condos or government regulations. 
I just found out today that Gilbert's Resort here in the Keys, where we are holding this year's Tradewinds Regatta, will no longer be available for any sailing activity after June of 2005 because they are turning the whole place into private townhouses.
Nice warm water then.
Our little part of Texas (Houston/Galveston area) is holding it's own. Lots of public access to beachs, camping allowed at our favorite venue (the texas city dike) - and fires tolerated. Warm water and weather. Home owners associations are a pain in the butt though - 5 letters this year and I don't even keep the boat out side the house - just repairs/upgrades on the drive sometimes. Still, there is lots of land here so we are probably going to move out of the burbs and get a place to abandon as many boats as we like in the long grass!
We have restarted the local fleet and have a pretty good social scene. Life is good. Sorry to hear about the conditions in California. Leave the fruit and nuts behind and move to Texas!
was it your home owners association that wrote the letters?
That would irritate the everliving crap out of me.
Maugan, you have an education, a job, a boat and a woman, so next step will be a house. If you want to keep the boat, be sure to check for covenants and home owner association rules before you buy in a platted subdivision. We avoid those places. One development down here tells you what type and color of mailbox you have to use.
But even if you are not in a development or subdivision, there can be government regulations. For instance, in our county, I have heard there is a law that says no more than one boat is allowed per residence. We plead ignorance, because we have seven on our property. We probably should cover them with camouflage tarps.
Fortunately, everybody in the Keys has at least one boat, so they don't seem to enforce the law. The code enforcement people are too busy finding people with illegal living quarters on the ground floor of stilt houses.
Oh I'm fully aware of the convenants and their purpose. I live in a house now, and have had to drag the 17 up in the neighborhood a couple times to work on it, and I was just itching for someone to come say something to me. Nothing ever was, but thats probably because we have a good relationship with the neighbors.
Sorry for the thread divergence.
It's not really a thread divergence, because not being able to keep your boat on your property is almost as bad as not being able to keep your boat on a beach or not having access to the water. All these things hurt cat sailing.
A good sailing buddy of mine purchased a powerboat (gasp) and put it in his backyard. He knew he had a pretty strict neighborhood covenant. He has a 6' tall wood fence around his backyard but you could see about 6" of the bimini over the center console over the fence. He got a letter and offered to add 6" to the top of his fence where the boat wouldn't be visible anymore....nope - his fence is already at maximium neighborhood height! We ended up digging two 10" deep holes in his backyard for the trailer tires to sit in. I too will avoid neighborhoods with such rules.
I can't undertsand the problem of neighbors or passers by being able to see a boat on someones property.
I live in wales and there is no regulation (that I know of) that states that your boat must not visable to the public
Does anyone even know the reason why that regulation was even enforced?
Personally I think boats (especially beach cats) livens up an area. 
Tom
Seems strange - you can own more firearms than a small country but you have to hide a boat in case it lowers the tone of the neighbourhood!
Doesn't that infringe your constitutional right to bear away? 
The problem with boats parked in a driveway versus a cat with sails up on the beach is that the driveway version looks like crap. Beach cats and other boats on trailers are about as pretty as parking a semi or broken down,rusty old cars. That's the principle behind those rules. The same with a 30 foot blue tarp that you can see from your back yard. I know it woudn't bother me, but I can see how it could bother someone who paid for a nice view from their yard.
Unfortunately all those things make neighborhoods look shabby, and that ultimately affects the property values.
I am on my 4th catamaran in the course of about 20 years. TheMightyHobie18, H21SE, H20 and now the ARC21. I have seen myself change from a pleasure sailor that raced occasionally to a racer that rarely sails for pleasure. Maybe it is just the fact that I am growing older but I can tell you that the beach scene in Miami is nothing like what it used to be. We used to have 5 - 10 boats on the beach every weekend and no racing, it was screwing around in Biscayne Bay, hull flying contests, BBQ's and family. Now we get 5 - 15 boats once a month for the races and nothing in between. We show up, execute the race and then pack it up and go home. It seems that we have gotten away from the "Hobie" way of life in South Florida. Too much emphasis on racing. As I sit here, I realize that although I do enjoy racing, I enjoy participation and the social aspect of cat sailing more than the competition.
Anyway. I think I will try to find a small cat for my 17 year old and teach him and his girlfreind how to sail for pleasure.
Happy new Year,
Eric
Arbo, with that view, the neighbors could never complain!
David
Eric,
You can thank John McKnight for the fact that there is ANY catamaran racing going on in Miami right now. He has singlehandedly built the fleet back up from almost nothing.
If you and others want to do fun sailing in an organized way with the group, then ORGANIZE it. John has been doing this all by himself for several years and he has to build the fleet racing schedule around his flying schedule. Nobody offers to help him with the newsletter or putting on the races or anything. So now you want him to somehow come in off the water and provide beer and barbecue so you can have some camaraderie afterwards?
John organizes the racing because he wants to have people to race against. So, if you think there is too much emphasis on racing, why don't you take over the task of organizing fun-sailing days? Or why don't you organize a fun time for after the races? Things like that don't just happen in a void. It takes a catalyst and helpers.
As far as why there isn't more social aspect, that is a direct result of the fact that women are no longer involved, either sailing or on the beach.
The women left along with the Hobie 16's and the Hobie 18's. So, yes, the Hobie Way of Life is gone in some parts of the country because it was built around male-female teams and one-design racing.
San Diego is still free, free... free. Plenty of places to launch and beach a cat. Nice beach-lined bay (Mission Bay) and easy access to the ocean.
If you visit Mission Bay you would think that (other than Mission Bay Yacht Club sailing events) the sailing scene has really slowed down. That goes for all kinds of boats, boards, not just cats.
mary,
I have to agree with your points.
What you have described is the destruction of camaraderie.
It is partly caused by the whiners who complain about the lack of events and the way they are being staged.
They feel they are entitled to attend events without doing anything to support the sport.
They attend events and then insult the people who worked hard to stage an event
by complaining that it doesn't meet their standards.
This ruins the experience for the people who are trying to have a good time.
Another issue is the boats themselves.
Like you said, when the fleet consists of low tech beach boats with similar performance,
the skippers can relate to each other.
But today, the casual sailors on their inexpensive beach boats get looked down upon and
ridiculed by the hot dogs on their 20-21 foot rocket ships.
Who wants to sit around at the end of the day hearing some schmuck who has more money than skill,
brag about how fast his boat is?
The Hobie-centric edits from commandant ulibari are proving, as we all said they would,
to erode the ranks of Hobie fleets and alienate potential sailors.
So as long as ther are people out there who;
continually complain about how other people run their events, but never get off their lazy dead butt,
claim they design perfect boats and critisize the design of other boats,
take advantage of other peoples events, but are too elitist to invite others to their events,
work to exclude certain members of the sailing community from participating sinply because of the brand of their boat,
the sport will continue to decline!!!
We make the sport.
If it declines, it is our fault.
Move to Tybee... Great sailing, really warm water most of the year, good sea breeze, leave your boat on the beach if you want, in the front yard if you want, eveybody supports sailing here...
Chuck's the city Marshall in charge of code enforcement and he keeps Team Tybee's boat in his front yard along with the ground crew trailer... no problems
It's a great place to live and sail... the real big plus is that everyone gets along. On one side of you is a multi-millionaire and the other side is your surfing buddies who struggle to get by but were all friends.
Heck, Sandra Bullock brings her dog and reads to the elderly at the assisted living home here and nobody hassles her... except maybe "Maughan17" when he visits but that's another story
I lived in Huntington Beach, California growing up before moving to Hawaii and what Michael was saying is true about SoCal and especially the competition for our time and attention.
I saw an earlier post about someone wanting to do a lifestyle movie on the order of "Step into Liquid" about Cat Sailing. I think that is a great idea if someone can pull it off. Brian Karr's DVD was really cool and the Feldman's have some really great footage and interviews... it just needs to go to the next level that can somehow translate what cat sailing is all about to the non-sailor or even non catsailor the way surfing has successfully marketed the surfing lifestyle and vibe.
Keep sailing and surfing... stay wet in 2005!
Jim Stone
Tybee Island (Full-time now)
Good points regarding the "racing scene" and camraderie. I do have to say that the camraderie is really good during events like the Tybee 500. I also started racing Finns and they have an excellent class vibe, but I see other classes that are not so supportive and fun.
I agree Hobie made a big mistake with their "Exclusion edict" last year.
I believe however, the growth has to be more than building up racing to get the numbers where they should be. Look at cycling... There are only about 40,000 registered racers in the entire US, of those maybe only 5,000 that are Category 1 or 2, yet there are millions of people that participate in fun rides on $1,000 - $7,000 bikes every year. Surfing the same way... I compete in ESA surfing contests but there are 20 non-competitive surfers to every ESA, NSSA, or Pro surfer out there at least. The hook is the "fun" and the sense that it is a cool lifestyle.
I surf, sail, and ride my bike because it is fun... first and foremost! I've raced and competed in all these sports because I personally enjoy the competition and the challenge to get better but if it stops being fun why spend the time and money?
I really think sailing and Cat sailing is missing the emphasis on "fun" and we need to develop events like the Runners and cyclists have (5K/10K/ Marathon - 25/50/100 mile)that allow for a sense of accomplishment but that the competitive stakes are not so high... you can do it strictly for fun to say you did it or you can run as fast as you can and see how good you really are...
I better go... I'm really out of shape and have a big race coming up May 8th... got to train
Jim Stone
Pirates of the Tybeean (Racing Team)
Mary,
Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed? John is awesome, I applaud his efforts.
The point that I was getting at is that we never had to "organize" anything, it just happened naturally. Everyone brought their own coolers and grills, we set up shade and chairs, we sailed all day long, in and out taking different people and making freinds. There was no need to organize it, it just happened, every weekend. Before anybody flames me let me say that I am just pointing out MY PERCEPTION of the differences between "now" and the "past".
The other point I was attempting to make was that I don't think that people get into sailing to start racing, I think the recreation and leisure sailors create a pool from which the racers emerge. Not 100% of course, and maybe not even the majority but The original thread was talking about the decline of cat sailing, not the decline of "racing".
And Mary, I never said that John should and I would never, ever, ever expect John to come out of his pocket with even one penny to provide me or anyone else beer or food, and I certainly would never ask (expect) him to come off the water to do do anyting other than relax.
Perhaps there should be a paradigm shift in our approach to enticing people into this wonderful leisure time activity.
Sam,
I hope you haven't directed the whiner term towards me, it does irk me when people complain without contributing.
Not everyone can help with organizing events based on personal cirumstances and other limitations so these people should zip their lips and keep the destructive comments to themselves. I can tell you that I never heard anyone complain about non fleet social gatherings at the beach on any given Sunday.
Eric,
what you describe is alive and well in Fort Lauderdale Beach, with the Hobie 16 fleet there. They meet every Sunday, hang out, drink, sail,race. Unfortunately (and this is my experience only) is that Rickenbacker Causeway is not very family friendly these days. My wife and Kids love to go to the beach, but when I suggest Rickenbacker causeway They're all like "oh no, not THERE!!" The beach is full of broken glass and debris, and their only memories from there are the cuts and scrapes they got every time they went. The scene stinks too. Once you're sailing, it's beautiful, but hanging out on the beach there is a little tough to chew.
Ft. Lauderdale, on the other hand is a beautiful sandy beach, and nice people. The downside, is the sailing is nowhere as nice, and the 50 yard drag of the catamaran from trailer to beach through the soft sand can be a little bit of a pain (esp. at the end of the day going uphill).
Except for that line above 
I agree with everything Jim has said. Tybee is a cat-sailors dream IMHO. It offers everything you could want and couldn't find nicer people around either.
And Jim, Don't get in between me and Sandra right now, that was during a low-point in our relationship. Now its all good. Did you see that new Chopper I rode in on the other day?
Fred, you are so right about Rickenbacker. It used to be a Hobie haven until the undesireables came in. Perhaps it just needs to be reclaimed.
i used to bring a rake with me to clean the area I was in and to hopefully set a good example.
How much trouble would I encounter at Ft. Lauderdale with the Arc21?
Sailing in our area has picked up on two fronts:
1. WindSurfing has doubled in the past 3 years. Plus a couple of them have purchased H16s.
2. Hobie Getaways out number everything except for H16s. 90% of the Getaway owners are new sailors here.
From 1995-2001 we were in big decline for a number of reasons:
1. The State of SD leased our beach out to the same guy that ran the main marina. He raised beach slips 300% in 3 years to run us out.
2. Older guys focused on other things other than sailing for a while.
3. No younger people.
4. Fleet didn't host an big events for atleast 5 years.
A few things that have re-grown our group:
1. We petitioned the state to take back the beach. They came through and cut out slip fees by 2/3rds. The state parks dept. is our biggest supporter and groom the beach weekly.
2. Thanks to geezers like my dad that took people for rides on his Wave and Getaway, new Getaway owners now out number everyone except H16 owners.
3. The fleet got their act together and hosted two bigger events in the past 4 years. Both times the wind was huge and word spread. All the old-timers came back and brought a few new faces.
4. The joining of the big-boat marina people and our beach community. More people = more power. Now when the big mono's have their races they plead for a couple of us to join them. Total, all out open class fun.
Added note:
Hobie class racing is decling, but slightly. In 2000 it was in horrible shape. Then made a come back.
I think the future really hindges on the factory. The H20 and H16 are the race boats here. If the H20 is cut off, I think most guys will go back to the H16 rather than the Tiger.
In fact the best sailors, in my opinion, in the Division are sailing H16s. They like the simplicity of the boat and the fact that the playing field is pretty even boat-wise.
Hobie needs to get a phase out plan for the H16 and replace it with a modern 16-18 footer. Something easy to setup that can race. There has to be a middle ground between HT and an H16.
There is the challange Hobie! Replace your cash cow with something new, flexible and more exciting.
Are you the same guy who came up with the New Coke idea?
[quote
How much trouble would I encounter at Ft. Lauderdale with the Arc21?
Yeah, that's the only thing... They don't take kindly to non 16 sailors. They will try to talk you into buying one, for sure! But all kidding aside, there are other boats that sail from there also. There's even one of the CABB sailors that goes there regularly (with the A Class catamaran).