Black Talons
Claw bullets
are illegal, and have been for quite some time.
Joey Bagodonuts can only sell long guns ( rifles and shotguns) at a show without having a purchase permit from the buyer.
If you'd like to protect your family in your home with inferior ammo, such as readily available jacketed ammo then you are a threat to your neighbors as well. Ammo that opens up stops when it hits stuff.The jacketed stuff rolls on through.
I'm sure I'm wasting my time with this as it sounds like most who've argued don't seem to care about facts or reality. If the knowledge base of the non-gun owning person is indicative of the info in this thread, I'm happy they don't own guns, just don't try to take everyone elses, and learn the facts before you type a bunch of B.S. Like Lee said the media has you snookered.
Pete,
How about finding me some stats for a crime committed with a .50 cal. sniper rifle.Then try baseball bat.
Todd
. . . and three or four sets of brand new Goodall sails! <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
.50cal is so freakin expensive to shoot. Like $7+ a squeaze for match ammo, so if I buy 3 and sell the other two to convicts that could be a good deal <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />.
.50cal is so freakin expensive to shoot. Like $7+ a squeaze for match ammo, so if I buy 3 and sell the other two to convicts that could be a good deal <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />.
And you wonder why some of us want to license guns and ammo?
Ok try this. It might clear things up.Doubt it, but who knows.
http:/
OK, agree the 50 cal is not a good choice. But my 12 gage pump with 18.5 inch barrel, is legal, and effective. Turns out it is now the weapon of choice in Iraq, for house to house clean up.
Cpt. USAR, Ordnance Corp 1959-1967
first the whales now gun debates
this forum's going down hill.....
imho
When I started Catamaran Sailor magazine back in 1995, I named it
Sailor
rather than
Sailing,
because I wanted it to be about the people as much as about the sport. I wanted to be able to cover all the things that interest sailors -- not just sailing. We all have other interests, like skiing, woodworking, golf, tennis, bicycling, camping, car renovations, and on and on.
I like to think that these forums, which are a spinoff from the magazine, are a place where sailors can share their other interests and activities besides sailing.
I'm not big on the politics threads, but nobody has to read them if they are not interested. At least you know that you are talking to fellow sailors, no matter what the subject.
Cpt. USAR, Ordnance Corp 1959-1967
I think the 12 ga. pump is the original
assualt weapon
. Wasn't it invented for trench warfare, circa WWI?
My wife always vetos any weapon I propose. But if I really thought I needed one, it would be a 20 ga. autoloader with #4s and cut down to the legal minimum. That's enough power to take anyone off their feet (if they're inside my house). Most importantly it's
tame
enough I could teach her to use it effectively. Not many ladies want to deal with a 12 gauge!
BRAVO, Mary.....
I was thinking about this last night, but in a way, this topic DOES relate to sailing and sailors..... Follow me on this train of thought.
Sailing, Surfing, (and lots of others) I believe, attracts people who might be traditionally called free-spirits. People who love their sport and don't take kindly to those that want to
regulate
or impede their ability to enjoy their endeavor fully. Awhile back there was a thread on the restrictions California environmentalists wanted to put through (or did put through, I forget) that restricted the growth of catsailing on that coast. Something about ordinances on the what could be dragged on the shore coupled with zoning ordinances on what could be seen from the road etc etc etc.
I think this all falls into the same catagory of OTHERS (Gov't, environmentalists, rules committees) trying to impose their view of the world on others.
AND IT'S GOTTEN WAY OUT OF CONTROL........
O'Reilly last night reported on Washington State allowing an AETHEIST PRONOUNCEMENT next to the traditional Christmas manger.
Olympic Committees deciding not sending catamarans to the Olympics.
Talk Radio needing to be
controlled
and changed with the Fairness (now that's a misnomer) Doctrine.
Liberal Democrats deciding that unions can eliminate (my opinion) a basic American institution of the SECRET BALLOT and coerce enrollment.
It goes on and on..... And here is why these issues reasonate with sailors in my opinion. They go against our core beliefs of just let me be..... Let me go sailing when, where and how I want. Give me water and wind and I'm good.
Heck, I don't like having to even register my sailboats every year and put those ugly numbers and letters on the side.
Emd of Rant.
You're not dragging me down this alley.
Jake,
I REALLY don't want to drag you anywhere!!!!
(But with your Cape and Leotard you shouldn't be afraid to go anywhere!)
HA!
Greg
Just a hint of sarcasm there pete
Sailor
rather than
Sailing,
because I wanted it to be about the people as much as about the sport. I wanted to be able to cover all the things that interest sailors -- not just sailing.
That's a good way to look at it Mary. And surely if I don't like something, I don't have to read it. I don't want to engage in the political aspects of this forum as I think it might not be good for business. But... for those packin', what do you have in your arsenal?
J
J
Pepper gel that I keep in my purse. I just have to make sure I don't confuse it with my hair spray, deodorant or insect repellent. <img src="<>/eek.gif" alt="eek" title="eek" height="15" width="15" />
<img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />
J
How many of the weapon onanists here have served in the armed services, and how many of those have used their weapons aginst fellow humans in their service? 0? 1%?
How many of you have given life saving first aid, worked at an ER or even tried to keep a friends blood inside him while waiting for help?
Selling revolvers, pistols and assault rifles like it is done in the US is crazy in my private opinion. Shotguns and rifles are kind of hard to use for muggings and robberies but are weapons of choice in a war or in hunting.
I can own (and do own) shotguns and rifles legally. I had to document what I wanted to use them for, i.e. for what kind of hunting and where. To own a revolver or pistol I would have to be an active member of a pistol club. If I were, I could own one, but could not carry it with me except to and from training, and then unloaded. I have no problem with this system and gun related crime here is mostly family tragedies where the man in the house takes out his rifle when he looses his head in an argument/gets drunk. 6-10 cases like that every year out of a 5mill population.
Die fighting his government.. How ridiculous/scary/immature.
Hitler deterred from invading the US becouse of the handguns amongst the population? Please document. He could hardly get a longer logistics chain to look after, and were not able to even invade the british isles.
Selling pistols/revolvers and assault rifles to ordinary people solves nothing. Spreading the same weapons to criminals and unstable persons makes it even worse. You have a problem with gun related crime you will not be able to solve in our lifetime. There are just too many guns around. Gun control laws would be a start though. The US is not so special that what works elsewhere would not work there as well, but first you would have to stop being afraid.
But... for those packin', what do you have in your arsenal?
Glock 23 40 cal loaded with Federal 135 grain Hydra-Shoks.
My wife and I both have a carry license.
The range master at the police shooting range we frequent has all but said people are irresponsible if they don't own, and know how to properly use a firearm for their personal/family’s protection...
In most cases by the time law enforcement arrives at the scene of a violent crime
it's
all over and all they can do is make out a report.
My son just completed Marine Boot camp a few months ago and was telling us about the colors they assigned to different levels of personal awareness…he always thought I was a bit too cautious…after boot camp he changed his outlook…seems the color “white” is used to describe those individuals who seem to go thru life with little or no situational awareness…If I were a betting man, I would wager the majority, if not all, of that group is unarmed…
If you want to take the chance with your life, or the lives of your love ones it is your prerogative…just please do not disarm the rest of us law biding citizens, my family and I don’t want to be cast in the role of the victim... even if you are willing to accept that posibility for you and yours.
Regards
Bob
Do you see a difference between armed forces, their tasks and your regular day to day life?
Would you need a gun for protection if the criminals did not carry one? If you are held up at gunpoint, will you try to draw your piece knowing your chances are 2-5%?
Strange how I dont need to carry a gun for protection here, or when travelling.
Some people are just plain interested in them and love shooting them. Just like a car collection, nobody bashes Jay Leno for all the cars he has.
Maybe so in Norway but that is how we became the US. I hope it would never happen again but until 9/11 we had a false sense of security that the US would never be attacked either.
If that's the case, then everytime I misspell a word, I could just throw away my pen and the problem would be solved.
My point is, the problem isn't with the piece of metal laying there, it's what is in the head of the individual who uses it. The violence can't be blamed on an inanimate object, that's too easy. The problem is much deeper.
I hate to answer this question but I will. I have had to do this. I tried to give a friend CPR after watching the vehicle he was in rollover and eject him. My first breath into him sent bubbles of blood out the top of his head. Now why do you ask this question?
Some people are just plain interested in them and love shooting them. Just like a car collection, nobody bashes Jay Leno for all the cars he has.
How many people have Jay killed with his car, and how easy is it to use a hidden car in a holdup or burglary? Packing a car in a shoulder holster kind of limits your options.
Maybe so in Norway but that is how we became the US. I hope it would never happen again but until 9/11 we had a false sense of security that the US would never be attacked either.
Do you remember the revolution against the english crown and the Boston tea party? How many of your relatives where killed? I have spoken with my family members who fought in 1940 against the nazi invations forces. One of them was part of the french, english and norwegian forces who almost wiped out the nazi forces at Narvik. He was no gun advocate. My fathers uncle was a commando during the WWII. He refused blankly to talk about what he had done during the war, but was no gun advocate either. How many of your veterans are gun advocates?
If that's the case, then everytime I misspell a word, I could just throw away my pen and the problem would be solved.
My point is, the problem isn't with the piece of metal laying there, it's what is in the head of the individual who uses it. The violence can't be blamed on an inanimate object, that's too easy. The problem is much deeper.
How many have you killed with your pen? The pen is mightier than the sword, but I definately would like the criminal mugging me to be armed with a BIC pen instead of a Glock.
I hate to answer this question but I will. I have had to do this. I tried to give a friend CPR after watching the vehicle he was in rollover and eject him. My first breath into him sent bubbles of blood out the top of his head. Now why do you ask this question?
Becouse so many people have a testosterone relationship to guns and gun use but have no idea about what they do to people. Those who have seen critical injuries know what guns do to people.
Dude, you totally don't get the point. Did I say anything about getting robbed with a Bic pen? Never mind.
I dont have the same cultural blindings you enjoy and see your culture from a different point of view.
Would be interesting to see a statistic on the number of small arms and how the numbers have changed over the years. I bet the rise of Hollywood and the number of small arms are related.
Ditto.
So if you admit that you have a gun problem in the US, why not look at how others have solved it? Or do you still want to say that the guns are not the problem but people are??
More people in the U.S. kill themselves with a gun, than kill others. Suicide, not accident.
I'm glad somebody else jumped on that statement. I've never heard such a rediculous justification for
the right to bear arms
.
More people die from their own guns, or their own family's guns than from somebody else's gun.
I've handled / fired handguns and long guns since I was in high school, but I see no need to own a handgun - and I live just outside Detroit! <img src="<>/eek.gif" alt="eek" title="eek" height="15" width="15" />
The only gun I own is a POS single-shot 12 guage shotgun that was last used at a regatta 25 years ago. I'd be afraid to fire anything but blanks from it now (it hasn't been cleaned since then).
I had heard that same thing, except about the Japanese. A gun in every window, something like that.
WARNING: GRAPHIC ANNALOGY BELOW DO NOT READ IF EASILY OFFENDED!
Would you need a gun for protection if the criminals did not carry one?
But they do...and if law biding citizen are disarmed the criminals would be the only ones with guns...why is such a obvious concept so hard for so many to grasp?...we are talking about people who wantonly break the law...they will always find a gun if they want it bad enough… and no government will be able to stop them...it will be just as ineffective as the illicit drug laws...they haven't been able to stop that either.
You said “I don’t need to carry a gun for protection”. That’s fine…no one said you had too…everyone’s circumstances are different. But to paint everyone, every area, and every situation with the same brush is rather presumptuous of you. Some of it goes back to the “White Zone”… one may be sailing in shark infested waters…just because one doesn’t see them, is the danger any less present if you should capsize? No
I would not advise everyone to carry a weapon …it is a huge responsibility, and not for those who like their alcohol, recreational drugs or have self control problem/anger issues…but I can not imagine being defenseless in ones own home…my only protection relying on an overextended police force that might be miles away when I need them.
This discussion is pointless…the media has done a phenomenal job at painting firearms as the cause of all societies ills…On the other hand it is practically impossible to read, or hear anything about an armed citizen saving lives by thwarting violent attacks even though they happen on a regular bases.
If your worried about something/someone taking the life of the innocents?…look at the statistics of how many people die at the hands of incompetent doctors per year…or the 30 million + babies aborted…funny how some forms of murder are socially acceptable… maybe if we didn’t shoot intruders but sucked their brains out while they were kicking and screaming on the floor it would be more socially acceptable to the anti-gun brigade. Sounds indefensible when it’s framed like that doesn’t it?***
The point many miss is that a firearm levels the field…a 5’-0” slightly built women, a 75 year old grandma/grandpa, a young man in a wheel chair all can defend themselves against a larger/stronger/more skilled attacker if need be. With the ever increasing level of violence, now more than ever, one needs to take personal responsibility for their own protection.
Regards,
Bob
Here, Here Bob.
One other point people miss is that not everyone has to carry a gun but if those that seek to do harm CAN'T BE SURE IF THEIR PREY (or someone close by)has a weapon also, the glimmer of doubt always exists and who knows if that reduces the number of occurances....
I wish the media would suffer a news blackout for about 6 months and then lets see where we are......
Greg