great 2nd amendment video

I never said that. And the re-quote about Hitler was wrong as well. The story was refferring to all privately owned firearms, not just hand guns.

I don't need no gun to defend my home -- I have a real whale harpoon standing by my door. It's a pretty heavy-duty item with a VERY sharp pointy end. Wouldn't want it stuck in me. <img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" /> A bullet would be way more better.

Mary, that reminds me when I lived in St.Croix. Gun laws were VERY stringent yet I heard gunshots all the time in town. I slept with my speargun loaded by my bed. BTW with a handgun ban down there, they had more crime per capita than New York City. Can anyone explain that one...anyone....Rolf...anyone?

I don't need no gun to defend my home -- I have a real whale harpoon standing by my door. It's a pretty heavy-duty item with a VERY sharp pointy end. Wouldn't want it stuck in me. A bullet would be way more better.

Your forgetting the first rule of personal protection...

Never bring a whale harpoon to a gun fight

...LOL

Regards,
Bob

Mary, be careful about pepper spray indoors. Everyone (including yourself) will most likely be incapacitated.

Although when I worked in the farms, we used teargas in the soil fumagant as a tracer (you'd know if there were any leaks), so most of my staff of field help was pretty much

immune

to tear gas / pepper spray. Yes, it still makes you cough and tear up, but most of those guys (and myself at the time) could still operate.

So, there could be a remote chance that an assailant could be somewhat more capable of continuing an assault despite your pepper spray (if they were on drugs, or highly motivated, or just plain stupid).

If you notice police successfully using pepper spray, there are always more police than perpetrators...

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

I found this to be pretty enlightening.

IMO the logic that guns dont kill people but people kill people is just crazy (Would you say the same about landmines for example?)
Guns are DESIGNED to kill, that is their sole purpose (unlike a car, baseball bat, or whatever).

The Virginia Tech massacre (32 kills) would not have happened if it where not so easy to buy a gun.
What added security does a gun bring anyway? If everyone owns one doesnt that cancel out its effect?
Criminals will always have a bigger gun than you and in what kind of neighborhoods do you all live if you sleep with a gun under your pillow? (Time to move?)

I don't have spray. I have gel. Goes out in a string.
I went into the store to buy a gun -- until I saw the prices. And I told the owner I didn't want to kill anybody, just incapacitate the bad guy long enough for me to wrap his whole body in duct tape. <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

What if one law-abiding, well-trained student had a concealed carry permit? That may have stopped Cho in his tracks.

OK, I'll go. I kind of like the machining and the workmanship of guns. I like to shoot trap. My grandpa, who was Lakota hunted to feed the family, but the information got lost with my parents generation. It's something I want to take up, but need someone to show me the ropes. So anyone that wants to take me hunting sometime, hint, hint.
And yes, I was trained to shoot by the fine instructors on Camp Pendleton Marine Base.
Here's what I'm packing:
HK USP .45

Grandpa's old Ithaca Model 37 20 GA with original receipt from 1958. Then I saw the 12GA version and had to buy it last year, then I found a 16 GA and am looking for a 410:

Mosin Nagant 9130 7.62X54r

Then on the cruising boat I keep a marinized Mossberg and pop a few clays here and there off the stern pulpit. There's a few others here and there in the arsenal, that's a good start. I'm also into archery, compound and traditional long bow. That's my home defense <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

J

I would LOVE to get into archery. It is quiet, so it is something that I could practice in my own yard (with the apple on Rick's head, of course) without the neighbors calling the police. <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />

Hunting without a gun is more commonly referred to as

hiking

, or

nature watching

, or

going hungry

While I am first to admit that a good portion of the population has no business even being CLOSE to a firearm, I am someone who appreciates the skill used in developing, manufacturing and using a firearm. In consider myself an

enthusiast

in the art of tactical deployment of firearms.

I shudder at the thought of actually having to use a firearm to defend myself or those close to me, as taking a life is a big deal (not so much in the heat of the moment, but during the AAR or debriefing). Could it happen? Sure, if other defenses fail (situational awareness, conflict avoidance, defensive manauvering, etc).

How likely? Pretty unlikely for me, ALTHOUGH, the business next door to my office was just (two weeks ago) robbed at gunpoint in BROAD DAYLIGHT. My town is just over 400 citizens and is relatively new (built in 2006), so it's not some po-dunk ghetto. It was a bit disconcerting...

If I ended up in that situation, would I have used a weapon? Tough call, and honestly, I couldn't rule that out. It wouldn't be my first choice, but things happen so fast... Which is why training and education are SO IMPORTANT (yet so scarce for the general population)...

Police officers are placed on paid leave after a duty-related firearm discharge, and are usually required to attend counseling (especially if a fatal shot was delivered). Don't think it won't have an effect on someone who's not trained to handle that type of action...

Unless you missed and hit south of the apple!

Guns at school, that sounds like a great idea! <img src="<>/sick.gif" alt="sick" title="sick" height="15" width="15" />
With so many people owning guns, I would say that fear is good for business.

“The Virginia Tech massacre (32 kills) would not have happened if it where not so easy to buy a gun.”

The Virginia Tech Massacre would not have happened if legal carry weapons were not prohibited from college campuses…the guy walking in knew it was like shooting fish in a barrel…he was brazen because he knew no one there was armed, and he had no risk of being stopped.

Anywhere legal carry is prohibited, they inadvertently create a perfect environment for those bent on mass murder. These people are cowards, and if they thought they would be stopped before they killed enough innocent people to make a name for themselves, they would try an easier target. They don’t want a fight …they want easy victims. When you disarm the population, you feed the very thing you claim you want to stop...

Regards,
Bob

or dating........ <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />

Marys decision is a logical one. Owning a gun for protection is not. The

playing field

will never be level. The criminal will always have the advantage. Most sane people dont want to kill other people.

Lets not limit guns, the criminals will get them anyway

. That is about as logical as saying

lets not limit the supply of heroine, the addicts will get it anyway

. No worries about the people maimed, killed, crime, being a burden on society etc.

Guns dont kill people, people do

. Right, so why bother trying to regulate anyway. Open the sluices and let anarchy rule?

Do you really think that was the reason Hitler did not invade, or are you just trying to muddle the argument? I'll repeat it for you. Do the US have a gun problem, or do you really think it is a people problem?

I have no idea about the situation in St. Croix, never been there and dont know much about the place. Sounds like the gun control laws was not enforced efficiently and that crime rates soared to me. Want to hold the argument you made here up to the snopes report about australia?

For personal protection, the family have me, cell phones and neighbours/fellow citizens. The odds of somebody entering my home on chance to do me harm is so small that I sleep very well at night. If somebody hold me up with a gun, I have done enough armed closed combat training in the army to not try to pull my own piece or do some funky ****. Good way to get killed or crippeled.

Tony,

I think that is it, fear. Good way to control people, fear. Good for business as well if you sell guns or security.

No, that's more like jumping out of a building. Feels great for a few moments, and then cold, hard, reality hits you in the face.... HARD

I respectfully disagree that the criminal has the advantage. They may have a jump start, but the adroit person could easily turn those tables. This is especially true with home invasions. You know your house best, even in the dark. Use that to your advantage.

I sleep pretty easy at night, becuase there are so many dang pet and kid toys all over my house (motion activated of course!), an intruder is likely to think he/she stepped into a crowded rock concert with all the noise created.

How many homeowners kill armed burglars/criminals entering their homes. How many homeowners owning a handgun are killed by armed burglars/criminals? What you just wrote was like something straight out of a Hollywood script.
That was one example, how many others do you want to go through? If you are scared of somebody entering your home, lock the doors and install a security system. Buy a box of CS gas and you should be very safe. Confront criminals with guns and the odds are very good that you or your family will be hurt/killed. How many criminals have entered your house or visited your friends homes while the owners was home?

Criminals always have the advantage. Usually by surprise, but also in mindset.

If any of the statistics below are even close to the truth, how can anyone justify having guns for

self defence

- as opposed to guns for hunting and target shooting etc.

America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

Children and Gun Violence

America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
America and Gun Violence

Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

Okay, I will give you the

advantage by mindset

. But the homeowner has advantage of terrain, which in my view can offset the criminal's advantage. Even if it's just to evacuate quickly or notify authorities.

Home invasions are somewhat common in USA. However, most intruders are not intent on causing physical harm to the occupants. They seek money or items they can exchange for money/drugs.

Intruders are usually suprised when confronted by occupants, and will exit the premises immediately. There are those criminals who do not react in this manner, whether by

intent

to comit harm, drug use, or other circumstances. It is these cases where an action plan which may involve an elevated level of force may be necessary to protect family members.

I define

action plan

as a means to extract family members and other occupants from the potential conflict situation ( by notification, evacuation, or barricade).

Elevated level of force

is based loosely on commonly accepted principles of defensive action. In VERY RARE circumstances would lethal force be necessary, but I am a firm believer in

be prepared

.

Given the hypothetical situation of a home invasion, would I hunt down the buglar and shoot them? Most likely not. Would I have a firearm handy in case the situation presented no other option than to defend myself with lethal force? Yes.

There are quite a few examples of intruders being shot (and sometimes killed) during home invasions.

NRA publications are very good at publisizing actual (and recent) accounts of armed citizens successfully defending themselves against attack. Yes, this accounts for probably less than 1% of all criminal acts purpotrated, but it does indeed happen in USA today.

Dermot,

I respect your view, but disagree that children are at huge threat to death by firearm.

Biggest killer of children in USA is most likely accidental drowning or poisoning.

Biggest killer of teenagers is by far automobile crashes.

Firearm deaths in certain segments of population is larger due to suspected gang activity.

Losing any person is sad. Let's just keep things in perspective.

If 80 persons die each day due to gun violence, how many die from auto crashes, smoking, drugs, drowning, domestic violence (without firearms)? I would suspect each of these items kills more people per day than guns.

Perspective... don't lose focus on the Big Picture.

You couldn't have said that better!

“America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)”
How many of those children and teens were gang bangers? How many of them would still have guns if they were banned…how many would still be walking around on the streets without jail time after being caught with a hand gun after the ban?

Statistics are BS…you can prove or disprove anything with them depending upon how you categorize things. Definition of Statistics is “a scientific way to pass a lie as the truth”

Regards,
Bob

I am only jumping into this thread for historical reasons. The comment on why Germany did not invade the US is somewhat inaccurate. It came from a post war interview of both Truman and a Japanese Minister of Defense or some title like that. He was asked why Japan did not invade Hawaii after attacking Pearl Harbor. His response was something like there was no military advantage to invading Hawaii unless you wanted to use it as a staging/fueling point to invade the rest of the US. Their (Japan's) intelligence determined that 1 in 3 or maybe 1 in 5 people in the US owned a firearm of some type. As result they felt like it would be stratigically foolish to go up against those odds while they were still fighting on other fronts. You also have to keep in mind that at the time bombing the US in preperation for a ground invasion was not really an option. The planes of the era required a carrier launch and their ability to carry on a bombing campaign would have been squashed long before they could have done enough damage to have a high likelyhood of success of a ground invasion. The bottom line the US was not invaded due to many reasons but private gun ownership was part of it. Now that I have cleared up history I need to go clean my S&W 9mm as it has not been out of the case in 6 months. What can I say, Us Texans like to own guns, even if we don't carry them.

LOL! Did they train you to deflect a bullet with your hand?

Home invasions

or burglary as we call it here are not uncommon. But they seek cash or easy to fence items and hit homes without people. I say it again, if you go up against an armed burglar with your gun, you better shoot him straight away preferably in the back instead of confronting him or doing some kind of

action plan

. Put two bullets in his torso as close to the centerline in the chest as you can and one in his head. The golden rule of handguns is that you dont pull it unless you are going to use it. That was the clear message we got before were were checked out on the Glock 19. Do you still want to confront a criminal with your handgun?

Big picture? Handsguns bring very little good to a modern society, but they are big business and Hollywood loves them.

Want to try again?

More children die in Africa due to starvation on any given day than they do in the US from guns. I feel that statistics are important. In the US more people die from car accidents than by any other means. When I get home I can look up what the exact numbers were for 2007. The second leading cause of death was Heart Disease. If I remember correctly the death by firearm in the US was 6 or 7 on the list.