great 2nd amendment video

Rolf
This not exactly the same topic... but related...
Here is one of the repercussions of bureaucrats taking away your rights to defend your selves with firearms…a much larger scale, but the results are the same.

The topic? Piracy in the Gulf of Aden

Here is what one of the crewmen of a ship who transverses this part of the world has to say..

I worked on ships in that area and the best and least expensive solution is automatic weapons and rockets and 3 to 5 man security teams on every ship. They could move from one ship to another like harbor pilots do after they leave the danger area. The problem is international laws make it difficult to have any guns on a ship. Change that law and we have a defense. Let the anti gun groups around the world [United Nations] force all of us to go completely defenseless with the vague promise of call the cops and you will be protected. It sounds good on paper but in reality it can't work due to the enormous cost to protect every ship from outside the ship. The best defense is a good offense. Anyone who doesn't believe me should board a ship and go through there with your Utopian ideals and hope for the best. You might get lucky, because luck is all you have without a gun.

People that advocate gun control seem to be of the naive opinion that everyone can be reasoned with...a ideology that is based on a false premise...you can't reason with someone who has no value for human life...not yours...not mine...not their own...Doesn't matter if its a Somalia pirate or a 14 year old gang banger with a Mack 10.

Regards,
Bob

To all those living outside the US that feel compelled to comment on our gun policies in the US read this:
http://www.wftv.com/mostpopular/18201932/detail.html

Click on this link (or cut and paste) to read about the brutal beating and rape of a 70 year old woman in Orlando this week...

This is a perfect example of a home invasion...When I read/hear about these thing on a regular bases it really pisses me off that some of my own country men try to keep us from being able to defend ourselves with handguns...when someone from thousands of miles a way...who doesn't have a clue of what they are talking about starts preaching their message of ignorance about gun control it just...well...I think I will stop right there...

Jake, I think very few would contest your opinion that the 8-year old's death is tragic.

Would a law prevent people from being irresponsible and instill common sense? Unlikely.

Do we NEED fully automatic weapons that are as poorly designed as the UZI and Mac-10? No way. My opinion is that these types of weapons are about the most useless firearm ever made (besides the original French machine gun of WWI):
- they cannot be effectively aimed due to high rate of fire, short barrel, and recoil
- They jam often
- they waste an inordinate amount of ammunition
So, I would consider them a very poor version of a scatter gun designed to inflict high % of collateral damage. What is the point of that? Who would need these characteristics other than someone intent on violence?

I don't agree that a complete firearm ban will prevent any of this irresponsibility.

Progressive levels of control seems to help keep inhernetly dangerous things (assault weapons, chemicals, commercial vehicles, etc) out of the hands of those least capable of safe operation. I think that's about as good as we can do on the legislative side.

Your previous posts about good parenting would cure society of about 99.999% of all our problems.

Not to further stir the pot, but an 8 year old CAN effectively handle an AK-47, and even 60mm mortars. This, to me, is the greater tragedy (that someone has trained them to do it).

I still firmly believe that knowledge is power. Teach people respect for firearms as well as safe operation, and maybe we'll cut down on some of the accidents.

Also, if anyone cares, in the USA you can be criminally charged for

brandishing a weapon

if you have a firearm in

plain view

in a public area. Even if you have a carry-permit. So, if you see someone waving a weapon, odds are that person is probably up to no good.

I can't let this go by...... Nobody is saying it is

okay

for any 8 year old kid to die. Stop trying to make this into something it isn't.

The question is: HOW FAR are you willing to go to try to prevent this type of thing?

The dichotomy is: You and others seem to be all wound up about the source of the death (ie the gun) and not about the personal responsibilty that was overlooked.

IF THE KID FELL OUT OF HIS TREEHOUSE (which would still be tragic and the kid would still be dead), would you be calling for a humanitarian effort to outlaw ladders? What about all the people that like and use their ladders? You get the point?

How about those

yard darts

people used to have a decade or so ago (and which may still be on the market). Think of your average dart and make it about .3 meter long and about 1 kg. People actually TOSSED these to each other. WTF? Would I throw these across a field to my friends? Would I STAND THERE AND TRY TO CATCH ONE?

I'm beginning to suspect that more people are injured annually with fireworks than firearms. You can see how well legislation is at controlling fireworks.....

In the post you quoted, I didn't mention the gun once. I mentioned responsibility. I'm wound up that everyone jumps to defend gun ownership instead of admitting there is a problem with the responsibility surrounding them and suggesting some constructive means through which we can make the situation better.

If I misunderstood, I apologize. Your ealier posts gave me that impression that you, too, felt outlawing guns and/or LEGISLATION was the answer.

3 charged in boy's death at Massachusetts gun expo

Christopher Bizilj, 8, was shooting at a pumpkin when the Uzi micro-submachine gun recoiled.

Associated Press
December 5, 2008

Reporting from Springfield, Mass. -- Three men, including a small-town police chief, were indicted Thursday on involuntary manslaughter counts in the death of an 8-year-old who accidentally shot himself in the head with an Uzi at a gun fair.

The Westfield Sportsman's Club in western Massachusetts, where the gun expo was held, also was charged.

Dist. Atty. William Bennett said the child, Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was supervised by an uncertified 15-year-old boy, even though an ad for the Oct. 26 expo promised that certified instructors would oversee shooters.

Christopher was firing at a pumpkin when he lost control of the 9mm micro-submachine gun because of the recoil.

Pelham Police Chief Edward Fleury was charged because he owns COP Firearms & Training, the sponsor of the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo.

Two men who brought the automatic weapon to the show, Carl Guiffre of Hartford, Conn., and Domenico Spano, of New Milford, Conn., also were indicted.

Fleury and the club also were indicted on four counts each of furnishing a machine gun to a minor.

Gift cards for guns in Compton
10:02 PM PT, Dec 4 2008

The mean streets of L.A. might get a bit kinder under a police program that offers a little holiday spending spree for residents who turn in guns.

The Los Angeles County sheriff's station in Compton, in conjunction with the city of Compton, and other local organizations are hosting a firearm surrender program called

Gifts for Guns.

The unique program provides an opportunity for local families to surrender firearms anonymously at the sheriff's station in exchange for a $100 holiday gift card to Ralph's, Target or Best Buy. For assault weapons, $200 gift cards are being offered.

No questions are asked of those who participate.

Over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend when the program was launched, 590 guns and two hand grenades were turned in to the sheriff's station. More than $55,000 in gift cards were handed out in exchange.

The next exchange will be at 10 a.m. Saturday and Sunday in the Ralph's parking lot at 280 E. Compton Blvd.

Next headline will read

Would be thief gets shot trying to steal guns. Apparantly, he needed the money for a drug purchase and thought the gun buy back program would furnish the needed cash. The gun owner obviously wanted to keep his guns!

[end of news artcle]

Probably a futile attempt at humor, but I thought it amusing and thats all that counts right?

OTOH, a buy back program is not a bad idea to try to remove guns that are not wanted/needed/etc which will reduce the incidence/possiblility of an accident.

Disclaimer: Yes I have guns (long guns, no handguns) and love to shoot. I teach my family how to handle them and use them. Handguns are not necessary for the average person, but I won't tell you that YOU can't own one. I would support a requiremtent of a training course before you can get one along with a license. If you need protection, my 20 guage will do the trick and I have a much better chance of hitting you. But my better defense is my dog... just try to sneak up on me, or show up at night!

Tough situation, I can see both sides and there is pros and cons either way. BUT as said many times, its not the sane/responsible people you need to worry about, its the crazies. They will use whatever is at hand to do what they want.

Dang I hate the cold...and we're not as cold as most of you guys.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!! I pray for health and happyness for you and your families where ever you are!

Clayton

Are you really saying that the 70 year old woman would have been safe if she had a handgun ? <img src="<>/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown" height="15" width="15" /> If an incident like that was happening every day to thousands of American citizens, it would not make the news - most people are safe in their homes - but you think that an incident like this justifies arming every American with a hand gun.
Having so many hand guns readily available to people causes more deaths than it could ever save.
Pete asked Rolf why he was getting so worked up about the American policy on guns. I can't speak for Rolf, but most people outside the USA find it difficult to understand, in this modern age, why Americans defent their

right to bear arms

when all it does is cause so many deaths - see the statistics.
In Europe we have

house invasions

, rapes and murders, but we do not think that it justifies arming the civilian population. We know that there would be more innocent people killed than rapists and murderers.

It may not be as much an argument about

the right to bear arms

as it is an argument about the government taking away any

right

that was previously granted.

The gov't took away our

right

to consume alcohol (I think today is the anniversary of the lifting of prohibition, btw) a long time ago, and that didn't go over so well...

I personally like the freedoms I may exercise in USA. It is dissapointing when I see these freedoms taken away abrubptly or slowly... Especially when I don't see a particular benefit resulting from the loss of whatever right is taken away.

In a vague comparison, consider my right to privacy vs. government surveillance. I see their need to know what's going on to protect me, but don't really like the idea of them listening in on me (not that I have anything intelligent to say, anyway - that's going to be one bored dude that has to listen in on my stuff).

How do you like all those cameras in public places (I'm thinking of Britan specifically)? You've probably gotten used to them, but that subject is a huge controversy in US.

Even something like red-light cameras to catch law-breakers faces stiff resistance from the population. Not sure why they do...

So, if red-light cameras reduce fatalities, why isn't it a law to have them at every intersection? Surely this will save lives, no?

VERY good.

Dermot, do you also have a problem understanding why so many were upset about the government listening in on phone conversations (as reported this was ONLY conversations originating in Muslim countries to someone in the US? You can make the same argument as you did with the guns, namely that you will save more lives IF the government happens to hear conversations about terrorist activities.

How would that type of government activity be treated in Ireland?

It is TOTALLY about the loss or erosion of freedoms.

In the UK and Ireland the police

on the beat

are not armed. Because of the times we live in, we have to have special back up armed units that can arrive at an incident if necessary. The police themselves have always voted not to be armed, because they believe that there would be an escalation of incidences where guns were used.
I believe that CCTV is accepted and actually very popular over here. If there has been an incident like a robery, damage to a parked car, a fight, anything you can think of - the first reaction is

Did you check for CCTV

People will check with local banks, shops, filling stations etc. We have a

Crime Watch

program every few weeks where they show CCTV footage of roberies and many criminals are recognised and reported to the police. If you are law abiding you have nothing to fear.
Someone mentioned Hollywood a few days ago. I think that many Americans really believe that what they see in the movies is happening all over the Country, and this has them very jumpy.
You have a population of over 300m. Naturally some nasty things will happen - but most people will never come into contact with any of these crazies.

Red light cameras are about making money for the city. The

fine

you pay does not even go on your record. It is all about cash. Ironically, in the great city of Houston, where I live and where they just installed some of those camera's, they have had an INCREASE in traffic accidents at those intersections since the installation of the cameras. My guess is that people who should have gone are now breaking hard to to try to stop only to be hit from behind. Althoug the same data did indicate a reduction in traffic related fatalities at the same intersections. All that data came from the City of Houston. And the reason for my initial comment, the City of Houston made 265k the first week the cameras were turned on.

When they started installing those in our town, it was discovered that the company that builds the cameras was providing them for free....in exchange for a percentage of the money tickets generated.

While I personally don't mind cameras in public spaces for the very reasons Dermot indicated (No problem if you're not doing anything wrong), I'm sure there are plenty of people here and abroad that aren't so happy about someone

poking around in my business

, even if what they are doing isn't wrong...

Interesting question regarding the cameras. Have they significantly REDUCED crime, or have they merely increased the capture/conviction rate?

And for the red-light camera discussion, if the monetary gain were out of the equation, would you vote to install them at intersections?

Even if fender-benders go up as a result, the reduction in fatalities is worth it, right?

And auto body shops must be laughing all the way to the bank, too....

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/078ftoqz.asp

so the point is, we're all bad drivers?

If this technology was more effective (and it will be with RFIDs on cars), would it not discourage people from driving carelessly/wrecklessly? Would this not reduce crashes and injuries?

Back to the public surveillance cameras... Would it bother you if the government used that data to keep an eye on your movements (even if they are legitimate and legal)?

Does it bother you if the government knew how many scoops of sugar you take in your coffee?

Even worse, if the gov't was contracting this surveillance out to a company, would it bother you that THEY know what you're up to? Like if they sold your data to a sugar-substitute marketing company?

Are you

concerned

by the ability of the FASTPASS toll-transponders tracking your whereabouts? In Maine, they time your passage through one toll booth and compare it to the time through another toll booth to determine your speed. Then they mail you a ticket.

How about the new procedure of checking your cellphone records at the time of a crash to see if you were

distracted

? (I wonder how they know you were talking on it and not a passenger?)

because they can listen to the conversation.... <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Do you think the internet is truly

free

? I'll bet lotsa people are watching us. I know China can do it with their population. Why can't people do it in the 'free' world? Because we're nicer?

Now, before everyone cubbyholes me as a conspiracy theorist, I'm merely pointing out that technology exists to perform these functions. Whether entities (good or bad) use them (or are using them) is not my point.

So....you want conspiracy theory. In the US bills a have a metalic strip in them. Stores have sensors at the exits that

monitor theft

, but I hear that they also count your money in your wallet. Why you ask, because the banks are trying to get everybody off of cash and on to plastic because they make money every time your card is swiped. I don't personally believe that BS but I had a boss that did. As a result he would pull the strip out of every bill he ever got. What a nut job.

Wrong again. First of all, Maine uses EZ PASS, not FAST PASS. Secondly, NO STATE issues speeding tickets based on entry / exit time on a toll road.

Here's the reference: Snopes

A traffic officer needs to be involved in catching speeders to verify who is driving the vehicle. Otherwise, an owner of a vehicle who happens to have several other family members who drive the vehicle could get a speeding ticket for what another driver did, or even worse you could get ticketed for what your friend does while driving your vehicle.

Besides, they could have been doing this years ago - way before EZ PASS. When you get on the Turnpike, the toll card has the time printed on it, and it's probably encoded in the magstripe on the back. They could station cops at every exit point to write you a ticket when you get off and the toll card is read. But they don't. Because they can't.

Tinfoil hat alert.

Wrong, They do the turnpike thing. I know 2 folks who got tickets on the Jersey tpk. that way. They weren't mailed, there was a cop there.

Is that the new Hobie anti-electrocution helmet? I heard it's made from old comp tips.

Oh my goodness,
EZ pass and Fast pass are the same damn thing, aren't they?
Our NH transponder (I'm not sure which one it is) is what got the ticket.
My wife has a ticket she got for driving in Maine and she got it in the mail. There ARE troopers at every toll but not in every booth obviously but I have no idea if maybe the pictures they take of your car makes the difference? NO IDEA how it works.

A few years ago (late 80's maybe) I got a speeding ticket by aircraft and it was mailed to me. Come to think of it, I don't know how they knew I was driving the car then either.....

That's different. Are you sure they weren't caught speeding through the EZ PASS? That's infinitely more likely to happen.

Same thing. Show me a copy of the ticket and I'll believe you. Otherwise, it's just anecdotal BS.

Oh, and Colin? There's a polyester stripe in currency, not magnetic. There's magnetic ink on the bills (just like there is on checks), but you can't read it from a distance, anymore than you could read cassette tape from a distance.

My whole point is - you guys spout off urban legends and conspiracy theories as if they were facts - which does nothing to improve your credibility when attempting to conduct an intelligent conversation.

As I said that theory was from a former boss. I believe I even called it

BS

in my original post. I personally don't subscribe to very many conspiracy theories.

I'm waiting for some jack hole to pass a law saying the Gov't can monitor OnStar and just mail you a ticket.

I need to go watch 1984 to sooth my nerves.

Matt- Next time I see you, I'm bringing my tinfoil helmet, want me to bring my spare? <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

Holy CRAP! Anyone else see that oil closed at $40.81 a barrel today?

I'll keep my Guns,
Freedom,& money..
You can keep the

WE'RE SENDING A MESSAGE TO WASHINGTON BY GIVING THIS HOT NEW STICKER AWAY FOR FREE! Our God-given rights as Americans are protected by the brave members of our armed forces and guaranteed by the US Constitution! Let everyone know where you stand by proudly displaying this powerful new bumper sticker

.

May agree but, I will NOT be getting this bumper sticker, sure fire way to have your car tagged in this area.

It's hard to think of any bumper sticker these days that isn't going to offend SOMEbody. <img src="<>/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown" height="15" width="15" />