HELP-Inter17-Could not get flipped boat up,again!

Bruce - I've not flipped the I17 and so can't offer specifics. However on my previous P19 with reacher I could right it singlehanded with the large Murrays waterbag + 4:1 blocks (required). This should work for you, assuming you can't figure out a way to right it w/o additional gear. I am 6' 1" 205 lbs.

Write if you have more questions. Sail fast and have fun,
Alan Thompson
I20 - San Diego

Sounds like you should have been able to right it, but should have, could have, would have, right?

Try the righting bar advertised here and elsewhere. I've never used it, but the concept is easy enough. tucks under tramp, light, and really increases the leverage.

There's other ways such as water bags lifted via blocks, etc.

I thought that the bows 45deg. into the wind was the ideal way to right.

If other posts don't get you to the links of the righting bar(I think Rick White has it on the home page for catsailor), then let me know and I'll try to be more help.

Have fun and good luck,

Todd Bouton

Bruce,

From your post I gather the boat lay on its side and drifted with the wind?

You said it wouldn't go 90 deg to the wind which means you couldn't get the wind under the mainsail.

I am guessing this is your problem. Let me know if I'm wrong.

You should be able to make a small drouge from some spinnaker cloth. Keep it in the tramp pocket with a line attached. When you go over, deploy it and it will hold the nose of the boat into the breeze so the wind gets under the main and helps you up.

Hopes this help,

Phill

HI Bruce, I do not know how much weight is required to right an I-17 but it sounds like you ought to have enough. I wonder if you have checked your mast to be sure it is sealed and not leaking. Even a small amount of water inside can make a big difference when trying to right a capsized boat. Also be sure you have extended your body weight as far outboard from the hull as possible using a loop in the righting line to put your harness hook in to make it easier. If these two things are good then I am surprised that it takes so much weight to right that boat.

Bruce

It can be done, but I have the carbon mast. remeber it is 2' longer too. My friend Mike uses a righting pole on his I17U.

CR

CR, Inter 17R USA 107

Getting that sail flying at the proper angle into the wind makes a tremendous difference. I had my TheMightyHobie18 lying on it's side on solid beach and it balanced, with the mast beyond horizontal, on the lift created by the sail. I had to do this because of a stuborn halyard ring. I now clearly understand why it took me so long to right the first cat I failed to keep pointy end up. That wind direction is way important.

(One of Rick's books points out that by putting your weight on and submerging the nose of the boat, it will naturally want to swing nose into the wind for righting)

[color]Jake

[color]Nacra 5.2 (2112)

[color]Hobie 18 (???)

And don't forget the option of getting back in the water and swimming the bow around.

I admit that I have experienced hesitance to exercise the swimming option for fear that if I got off the hull, the boat would turtle. If I'm having trouble getting the boat to spin by standing on the bow, though, I go for a swim to position the boat to the wind. So far I've been able to right my N6.0 after getting knocked down singlehanded by using just a righting line and the wind (I'm 6'1", 200 lbs.). Not without difficulty, but possible.

Kevin Rose

N6.0na #215

kevin@paddleways.com

2 tricks I use on 20 foot boats are:

Position yourself on the bows when trying to spin the boat into the wind and keep the mainsheet and travelor sheeted in until the boat is in position. This keeps water out of the mainsail and allows the boat to rotate. Once you have the boat in position open up the sheets and right the boat. Caution if you do not open up the sheets, the boat may sail away without you or dragging you under the boat after righting the boat.

One time I was capsized and my boat went turtle very quickly. The conditions were very windy (25 and gusting upward) and we pitchedpoled going dead downwind. I looked at my crew and told him this may take a bit to get this boat over. I told him to stand on the hull near the rear crossbeam and I went to fish out the righting line. All of sudden the boat rotated into a beam reach position and I got back by the crew and without the righting line in hand the wind pushed the boat from the turtle position to its side and we grabbed the dolphin striker and pulled the boat right over.

Someone was watching out for me that day.

Righting bags also work well.

Mark

Inter 20 no. 274

Houston, TX

First, if you had water in the mast you might as well give it up it's impossible. Now going back to what Kevin was saying. I flipped an Inter 20 at Alter Cup this year and me and my crew were 375 and we couldn't right the boat with it rotated to the 45 degree angle. We were in 3rd place and thought we could just jump on it and right it. Well I finally got in and swam it around which put us in 10th place. I just wish I would have done that in the first place.

Get to the bow and sink it with sheets loose until it comes to the 45 degree angle to the wind. Then jump in and hold the bridle and swim like crazy it will rotate quickly. glide back to the dolphin striker and righting line and jump up on it quickly. You will right it in no time if you have a little wind. If you don't have any wind I'm not sure you will be able to right it singlehanded.

Mike Hill

H20 #791

I have been considering that.

Did it work real well?

Bruce

i was waiting for Rick to tout his product,...i just want to know if it had been tested on the I-17,....anyone??

Bruce

1. you are correct in your question.

2. This is a great idea,...how big a sea anchor do you suggest?

3. What about the sail configuration,......sheet and trav tight,...or blown?

4. If the sheet/trrav is tight,...90% of the sail is out of the water, it is the square head that is holding the unit down,...suggestions?

Bruce

Going to check all the seals on this week this week,...I have the boat on its side for maint. work.

Bruce

Kevin,

You know I sit on the bow and kick with my feet to get it turned,.....but she swings right back.......???

Bruce

Mark,

good story!

Bruce

Mike,

Great points,

The funny thing was, once I told the chase boat to come over ( it had been 1/2 of unsuccesful attempts..)...we rotated the boat 90%,....and,...nothing happened,....no go up? the wind was light on spotty that day too ( less than 10)

Finally I told the skipper to tow me slowly to the nearest island,....and I connected the tow line to the righting line,..squarted the boat up for 1 last try..and reluctantly she came up,......I checked the hull for water(.on the beach later.),.....nothing much to talk about.

Bruce

Bruce,

I just purchased an I17R, in the next couple of days I'll dump it over and try to right it. If I learn anything in the process, I'll pass it on.

Mark

Bruce,

It sounds to me like you may have had the leech toward the wind. In this configuration the mast will begin to clock away from the wind as soon as the sail is off of the water. Otherwise, if your luff is to weather the sail should fill and produce some upward lift and not as much rotational force. My advice follows.

Once capsized, do these things in this order: Tell your crew, if any, that you are okay and find out if he is okay.

Remove any wire or rope lines that are tangled on your body.

Cast off the spinnaker halyard if the spin is hoisted.

Release the main traveller and main sheet.

If you have a quick release on the main clew, let it go also!

Uncleat the jib sheets.

Go to the bow and swim the bow into the wind. This can often be done without very much swim work, just place your weight on the bow and swim to help it. (Once the wind gets on the topside of the trampoline, the boat may roatate the mast toward the wind and that should not harm your efforts.)

Extend fully, the daggerboard that is in the wetted hull.

Deploy a righting line.

If boat is turtled, place all of your weight on the leeward stern to make the mast float up to the surface.

Before righting make one last check of these things in this order: Jib is uncleated. (I know you probably don't have one, but I am trying to be generic here) Hooter or spinnaker head is not hoisted. Mainsheet and traveller are paid out.

Now;

Stand on the daggerboard and lean back with a righting line. Extend your legs and arms to get the most distance between the boat and yourself.

If your mast leaks, *do not capsize.*

I believe that at your weight you must either be making a fundamental error or your boat has some water in the mast.

GARY

One more caution in high winds. Don't let go of the boat while on the windward side. I got knocked down a couple months ago in 25 knots. My crew made the mistake of letting go of the boat. With the wind on the tramp and me on the hull, I was blowing away faster than he could swim. I ended up having to right the boat solo and pick him up. (Another option would have been to put my body in the water to act as a drogue and swim the boat to position the bows into the wind.)

Kevin Rose

N6.0na #215

kevin@paddleways.com

Catter,

1. thanks to all the tips.

2. what a great forum!

3. I am purchasing a 'righting bag",...at a theoretical weight of 250 pounds (...water is 8 pounds a gallon..)..plus my weight,..there is NO way 450+- pounds will not right her!!!

4. As a solo sailer,..I will use the sea anchor idea from Phill,.. so I just do not have to mess around with getting the the boat perpendicular to the wind,....which is my biggest chore,...,...let a little science work for me,...right? So, while the sea anchor is working,..I will deplot the water bag...cool.

5. All your cautions are right,...in the wind and waves we sail in down here,..one must stay with the boat ALL the time,...I have had the pleasure of being separated from a flipped cat,..I could not swim fast enough to catch up to it either....and when the chase boat got me,...we were DSQ.

6. Flipping is apart of the boats we race,....right!

Once again,....thanks to all!

Bruce

St. Croix

US Virgin Islands

Brobru,

Well, I spent a lot of time turned over yesterday in Panama City!

The first capsize was done while going to weather while going over to the leward side to put the centerboard down in about 15 knots of wind or so.

I was able to right the boat quickly, which was a good thing since a huge concrete base with an electrical tower atop it was straight downwind from me (and coming quickly).

I through the righting line out of the bag (it goes through the grommet and ties to the post for the dolphin striker), over the boat and only had to get out partially on the dagarboard to righ the boat. The mast was pointed right in to the wind, I didn't try to get it to a 45, and leaned out and she came right over.

Incident number two happened with the spinnaker flying heading downwind. I drove the boat further down and attempted to dump some chute, but the boat was going over no matter what I did (it was gusting 20 or so at this point).

Luckily Mark Smith had given me the advice of snuffing the chute before you try to right the boat if I was to capsize with the spinnaker out. It took me quite a while to snuff it, in fact I only got about 2/3rds of it in the bag before I gave up.

I was tooling along about 10 knots on the side so I was actually quite worried that I would become seperated from the boat. I tossed the righting line over and leaned out...the boat didn't want to come over. I stood up on the forward bow and the boat got closer to a 45 and then you have to QUICKLY get back in position to right the boat. The boat came back over without too much effort once a little wind got under the sail.

I had made one mistake: I had replaced the righting line supplied by the dealer with one 12' long...BIG MISTAKE! I didn't quite have enough line to really get out with some leverage...and also to be able to tie a loop in the line, hook it to my harness and lean out more...off to West Marine for 15' of line before next weekend!

So, at least for the Inter17R, one 175-180 lb. person can fairly easily right it from my experience...at least in 15 knot winds, I don't know how much harder it would be with lighter winds (I'll let you know!).

I don't know if you have the U with the aluminum mast or the R with the carbon mast.

I am curious as to what other single-handed sailors have to say about attaching some sort of life line to themselves and the boat in case of a capsize in high winds/seas. There was absolutely no way I would have been able to catch the boat if it would have gotten away from me.

ScaredyCat

Sounds like you got it together though.

I have the I 17 'normal',..which means aluminum mast. But with my weight,..230 pounds wet with gear,....man shw should pop up!

It was a rarw Caribbean light wind day when it happened.

Is getting out on the board a

must do'?.,....I feel those things flex on me so I stay away from them,....mistake?

regards,

Bruce

St. Croix

I've sailed an I 17 R probably more than most and flipped as much as others until I finally mastered the 17 in heavy air. The only time I couldn't right the boat was a time that the wind was very light, I had the chute up, was standing on the leeward hull and flipped in only about 3 - 5 kts.

I had no wind to he;p me right the boat and had to seek help.

Luckily my son (also on a 17 R) was there grabbed my masthead and threw it in the air. Otherwise the 17 R should be rightable in nearly all conditions.

I'm 5' 11" and 175 lbs.

Maui Mark

USA 100

2000 I 17 R Nat. Champ

I stood maybe 6 inches out on the daggerboard during the first righting and had to get all the way out on one at the second righting to get it started up. As I mentioned, I think if my righting line would have been a bit longer I would have been able to get enough moment from 6 inches out, but due to the fact I couldn't lay completely back I had to get way out on the board.

SC

Mark,

thanks for the input, congrats on the championship too!

Bruce

st. Croix

SC,

Thanks for the sccop,.....it looks like the rest is up to me....

Bruce

BroBru,

I think ir would really be best if I came to St. Croix and

crashed

at your place for a couple of weeks so we could work out this righting problem!

SC

For I notice that all the sailors able to right their I 17's have carbon masts. I'm not saying that the Aluminium masted !-17 can't be righted, I haven't sailed the I-17 yet. But I'm quite sure that this aspect is a contributor in this problem which is repeately overlooked.

Brobu may a righting sack is enough to help you out ?

Wouter