Hobie 21-SE & Me

That would be a spinnaker

HA !! Wouldn't have guessed That ; It looked a 150% Drifter
to me.

Would you happen to Know about how many gallons of water
the Mast Float will displace ?
I can't afford a new one so i'll need to build my own.
I Don't

Want

to flip my 21-SE but Do Want to be ready
if/when i do.

Making molds is Fun ; need to mold my center-board because
one is Good and one is Toast.
Same with my Rudders ; one Good , one Bad . I'll have
TWO Carbon ones for, (cheaper than one new) ; once the mold is made. Can
paint the mold with a surface coat on the part that is a LOT
lighter than Polyester-gel-coat ! Too bad because i Like
that black carbon look but can't use it at Mohave where the temperature in the shade is 113F

Bille

That mast float may not be 'big enough' if it's the standard Hobie Wave or Getaway float. The H21 mast (and everything else) is a lot heavier, with more leverage and will probably just push that small float right under. And a bigger float will add a lot of drag way up high, where you least want it, when you're right side up.

You might consider putting some type of water activated inflatable CO2 cartridge type float up there, that way it's not much drag when you are sailing, and it only 'blows up' when you need it, ie. when you flip. Sort of like those new inflatable life preservers being worn by offshore racing crews, just wrap it around the top of the mast or attach with bungies, etc.

On the big sail, on spinnaker cats, the spin. acts a lot like a

Drifter

on a monohull, it's the same thing with a different name. Cats don't use a symetrical spin with a pole on the mast like mono's do, our spins. are more like a huge jib, you can even go upwind in light air with a flat one, just like a Drifter on a mono.

The early spins on the H21's were very fat, cut for going deep downwind. The newer spins on the closed course racing cats (Inter 20's, F18's, F16's, etc.) are much flatter cut, but they also snuff into a sock on the pole, but the older H21 spins went into a bag on the tramp. That's 'crew work'!

If you are going to singlehand it most of the time, you'll want to get a sock on the pole, it's much easier to get it down and snuffed that way, when you are alone. OR...get one of Rick White's

Hooters

, which is basically a roller furling spinnaker/large jib setup.

Either way, you'll have to get a spinnaker custom made, as the old H21's are not being produced anymore, neither are the sails. The spinnakers were add-on's for distance racing back in the day. Randy Smyth made a bunch of them, see if he's got any laying around you might be able to get one cheap.

Great idea on the Mast float ; I can do that !!!
a mercury contact switch made from a Long glass tube
with contacts ON Top. When it tips over, the liquid metal
will short the contacts & blow the CO2 bottle.

Edit :
UAH -- gonna need a way to dis-arm that thing, or
lowering the Mast might be a problem !!

SO i weigh the mast and figure the Volume i'll need
with 1 hull a few feet from the fulcrum point ? ...

Guss Ya figured i know a bit about Mono's ; but don't
Know Squat about Cats ??

Got a contact # for Randy Smyth ?

Yes i'll be solo a Lot, & the wind blows at Mohave
in the afternoon when Kite boarding is finished, because it
turned off-shore for us.
A :
Perfect time to go sail.

Thanks :
Bille

I found this article about Randy but no luck on his contact info using Google. Perhaps someone on this board can help you track him down.

http://www.sailingworld.com/article/Randy-Smyth

You might want to try google Smyth Sails and you'll get his cell.
Oh My!

There are several sizes of Bobs.., Baby is what the Waves use, and the biggest is the Mama Bob
We have them here on our store at
www.OnLineMarineStore.com
Rick

Billie,

Before you get involved in making at

bob

.... most of the racers at the time rigged a righting pole attached to the dolphin striker/under the tramp ... (my friend used a H16 boom) ... that swung out to right the boat ... the crew hangs/pulls down on it ... and swings back and stores under the tramp when tied to the lacings once the boat is righted .... (I believe Rick's store has a kit availible ...)

As for sails ... the H21SE was a

Open

sailplan ... meaning you could source/purchase sails from any sailmaker you wish ... they just had to

measure

.... Doyle at the time (88'-90') made a mainsail w/ alot of

roach

to it and combined w/ windward sheeting (which is also allowed ...) ... that +600lb boat would move surprisingly well in light air ... (I watched the

Jacobson

brothers win the New England 100 one year in a drifter w/ that mainsail ... on Fisher's Island Sound ...). So w/ the developement of the

Squaretop

mainsail since then ... I would do some research ... (talk to

Team Chums

... I think he had a beautiful H-21SE at one time ...)

Most of the H21SE's had a

Jib Furler

.... when new ...

Harry Murphey
H18Mag/P19MX

I appreciate everyone input.

I decided to build my own mast float the same diameter as Mama Bob
but a bit longer than her 22

length.
Mama weighs 5.8lb and is 18

diameter ; i can match the weight and make
it closer to 32" in length, which will reduce the drag a Lot, if it swivels. That also adds
a Bunch more buoyancy;like 30% more.

I'm not gonna be touching it at the top of my Mast; so
it can have that Black-Carbon Twill & clear-coat Look.
My materials can take the heat.
Bille

What? Rick sell them?

I originally learned to sail at Pax-River navel air station
when i was 15. That was back in 1967,(ouch i'm getting Old)!

The Mono-hull was about 35 to 40ft long and Yawl-rigged
with the mizzen-staysail Behind the Helm.
The Main had off-set positions, set with the side stays
so that the Mast could be tilted toward the windward side
of the boat,thus catching more air in the sails as
she heeled over.

Fast Forward to present :

My friend use to race Hobie 18 and told me how to
right my 21 with ease.

Place a mast bob so it doesn't go turtle.
Place off-set's on the side-stays so the mast-Bob
can be pulled OVER the hull in the water, or the
Mast Bob is now touching a projected line of where
beam of the cat would be if floating correct and upright.
((the Mast would be tilted))

The cat will go correct with little weight extended !

So -- guess what i'm doing to the side-stays on my
Hobie 21SE ? Mostly because i wouldn't be able to right
this cat by myself if/when i flip her.

Bille

I will address the

Jib Furler

later !

All great in theory, but I highly recommend you try this out in a safe, controlled environment, before you accept it as truth. Even then, it's still not a guarantee. Lots of righting methods seem like a good idea on paper, but don't work for squat in practice. A Hobie 21 is a heck of a lot of boat for one person to try to pull over themself, even with the use of shroud extenders (which have their own set of issues as well).

The 21 was never intended to be a singlehander (by a longshot). It was originally intended as a 2 or 3 person boat. About the only guaranteed righting method is to add more crew weight (although even that will fail if your mast fills with water).

sm

Bille, check out the

Righting Bags

too.

Basically it's a large canvas/rubber/plastic type sack you fill up with water and put over your shoulder to add to your weight, for righting the boat. It rides on the tramp empty of course, until you need it.

I had a

moma bob

that I'd use on Catalina trips. Painted it black though so it wasn't so noticeable. E/P made my spinn. It was small by 21se standards but worked great (300 sq. ft.) It was N20 profile. I'd just go with a N20 chute and be done with it. I ran a (short) 13.5' pole with mid pole snuffer. Spin sheet blocks were in the same tracks as the jib traveler cars but forward of them. I'm dissapointed you cut the rear beam but you could have a good welder drill some 1" holes just to the insert and plug weld them. I welded my beams so the boat was full width all the time. The stiffer platform sailed better. Trailering wasn't bad, just go through the far right lane when crossing the border into or coming from Mexico (it's for truckers). DON'T MAKE A HARD DECK TRAMPOLINE!! They didn't put Man O War in with the Budwiser Clydsdales.

Also, get Tiger rudders. They are long enough. Don't waste your time making your own.

That's a Great idea !!
I can tie a 100ft cord to the mast where the stays attach
and flip it with my car in dead air with no sails.

That Should be easier than with sails up, for the second try in wind.
If i can also video & post it here then maybe you guys see if it looks feasible or not ?

I lost both legs because i Didn't leave a way out on a
hang glider. I won't fear flipping over as much on a
fun day, if i know it'll go back right-side Up !
That's gonna be a Practiced plan!!

<img src="http://www.kiteforum.com/download/file.php?id=47756" alt="" />

I didn't enjoy cutting the rear X-beam ; & i'm trying
to NOT let it bother me that the reason it was stuck
in the First place :
was because someone screwed in some SS flat-head screwes
on the spacers in-between the tubes, and didn't bother with the

locktite

.
One backed out.
Now the rear cross-beam is permanently stuck in the receiver.
Unless i got a New Cross-Beam. then i (Could) use a Sawz-All to cut that section out of the outer receiver tube, And Not damage the outer Tube. The spacers are Toast, if i do that.
Cheaper to just splice the Beam back together.

Also -- the material i plan to use making my tramps, was
mentioned in the first post of this thread. I'll use
the same material for the wings.

Bille

TeamChums - in reading through many posts - you seem to have excellent working knowledge of the 21se... What would you recommend as the best available rudder for the 21se if you're going to fly a chute?

That looks like the boat from Eureka. Great boat if it is.

I've filled masts with

bean-bag

styrene foam balls <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

Not for floatation as such, but to displace the water when its goes over, lots less worry than how good is the mast sealed up !!!

Another one I saw many years ago was a bag made from sailcloth that was velcro'd to the top of the mast and had a short rope that was shackled to the very top of the mast, the bag lay reasonably flat against the mast for normal duties.
A soda-stream CO2 cylinder was setup at the mast step in an over-centre catch system, simply lift the lever and the bottle was forced up into a bursting chamber that had a small plastic hose that then ran up to the bag...
When inflated the bag was about 1' in diameter and 3' in length...

this setup was on a yvonne 20' timber catamaran back in the early 80's, as a teenager I remember seeing the mast near jump out of the water when it was deployed, you wouldn't want to be in the wrong place !!!
<img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" />

Yvonne data sheet

wonder if those water activated pfd systems would work?

Or would it deploy at every capsize, thereby negating the effect..?

Or when it rains.

Never flew a chute on my 21 before, so i got no idea ; sorry.

I personally do NOT like the looks of the stock set-up
for they call the spinnaker ; looks more like an Over-sized
Drifter to me, and it's placed TO0oo far forward of the
balance point of the hull, so Ya Need a Lot of rudder.

Bille