just how delicate (or robust) are f-16 & 18's?

I wouldn't consider the F18 or the current F16's delicate by any stretch. I've hit hard from time to time and made a mess of the daggerboard and the daggerboard trunk was fine. If you're running flats or finding the hard frequently then a deep daggerboard boat like the F18 isn't for you.

I drove the Tiger full speed into a shallow mud bottom while on the trap with no damage.

I hit the bottom at Sarasota on the F18 Capricorn and cracked off a little carbon from our board with no hull damage and finished the regatta on that board.

I drove the F18 Capricorn at speed (21knots by GPS) into a shallow clay bank cracked both dagger trunk connection points. I was surprised it wasn't worse. Boat stayed together and only took on a little water.

It's getting fixed and will be back out sailing soon.

I prefer the short boards on my f18 in most conditions anyway. No matter where you sail, you need to do regular repairs to your boards. Nice to have spares.

I hit a tree trunk with the spin up on the C2 early this season. Held up like a champ.

I think the biggest difference is how upsetting it is to scratch an expensive F18 compared to an $800 Hobie.

Forrest and I were double trap reaching at 3/4 speed on his N20 and hit that sandbar entering the channel to finish Macho Man, tossing both of us in the water from the

full-stop

.

Not sure there was any damage to daggarboard other than probably gelcoat. Granted, it was a SAND bar.

But the F18 straight boards are the same construction, and the daggarboar trunks are pretty solid, too.

I would agree with the prior post that if you're considering high-speed sailing in the 'bay' sections up there, you probably should look at something without daggarboards (like and old T with centerboards?). Or not sail full tilt in shallow water...?

Bottomed out a Viper at Duniden (sp) one day double trap reaching. No alarming damage.

I think most of the boats are tougher than people think, but they certainly as adept at hitting the bottom as a H16.

We sail in shallow water all the time, muddy bottom, no real issues on the F18 or F16. F16 is friendlier with the shorter boards. Need a solid 6 feet of water for the F18 with boards all the way down...but they can be pulled up!! Bigger concern is your launching spot, bows are a tiny bit more delicate than a Hobie.

Agreed here. The F18s are at least as tough as the Nacra 20s. I would argue they are a little tougher and have a longer top level racing service life since the building techniques have improved to keep up with the open class competition. I feel like my '08 Infusion is still extremely competitive and hasn't lost a beat. I never got the feeling that our Nacra 20's held up quite as well or long.

When you do see a problem (like in my case where a daggerboard trunk tried to take a leave of absence through the bottom of my hull), it was a manufacturing problem and not a design issue.

great info, Thanks!

Agree with all above. Sand shouldn't be too much of a problem. I suppose hitting sandbars at full speed repeatedly wouldn't be recommended.

Rocks are an entirely different issue. I've seen countless trunks damaged due to board impacts with rocks, and not limited to any single design or builder.

When someone comes up with bulletproof daggerboard trunks, they'll be printing money...

Mike

Yes, but didn't you slog your N20 up the coast a few times in the T-500? That takes a lot out of a crew/boat. But I would hope construction techniques/materials have improved over time

You should look at how they are building the trunks and general construction on the Falcons...as close to bullet proof as you'll see this lifetime..

Yeah..I guess some of my opinion on that matter is influenced by the number of upgrades we had to keep making to the boats to stay relevent. No more turtle bags and went to end-pole snuffers, end-pole snuffers to mid-pole snuffers, jib blocks to self tackers, three different style rudders, etc. I haven't had to change a thing on my Infusion other than keep it fresh and try new rigging ideas.

I do believe that the infusion process builds a significantly stiffer boat that - that stays stiffer longer. (I know, I know...that's what she said).

Early F18 adopters were in the same upgrade game as you on the 20 weren't they Jake? I think the early Tiger sailors had some of the worst experiences, having to change the pinhead mains over to squareheads (on top of adding self-tackers, etc.).

Mike

Yeah, probably, and I had one of the original Nacra F18s as well. That one didn't change like the Tiger did but it just sorta became obsolete. The F18 designs made a quick jump at around the time the Infusion came out with the more wing-like mast sections and much fatter hulls and it changed the performance of the boats.