Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO

I thought we've just hammered all the details out and worn out the internet. There's a big difference in the traffic here today, then when I signed up ten years ago.

First you have a bug in your avatar, Tim, which creates a wrong popup in all our visits to this thread.

Second, In my humble opinion, the great power and potency of this forum is the enormous span in the different member-nationalities.
They are literally all over the world and having each their different sailing spots with specific local problems and needs.

Ofcourse the US-group dominates in numbers this forum, but they are entitled to do so, looking at the size of their role in the real worldwide society.
Besides, the base of this forum is Rick and his business in the States.

I find this openforum/discussions thread a very special and unique worldwide connecting medium between catsailors all over the world. In which they all share the same love for their sport (and sometimes other matters!), despite how different they sometimes seem to be.

I'm totally satisfied with the flow and the look of this site!

P.S. I have difficulty with the way your are shaking with your wallet for revitalising this forum.
If there is really need for that, this forum can easily and united bring up funds for that.

Tim and Junkie both make good points.

What exists obviously functions reasonably well and indeed serves as a unique global forum on the subject. We that use it on a regular basis are probably satisfied with the look and feel. However, the bar has been raised on the rest of the internet, and new (younger) people that come to the site might not be as impressed as we might hope.

Since catsailing is an endeavor that seems to attract technically inclined people, I'd bet there are more than a few individuals with some level of web development experience, graphic design, etc. that could volunteer to assist Rick with a bit of sprucing up, etc.

I don't really think money needs to be part of the equation as far as any update is concerned. There are basic hosting costs, but they are there regardless of website appearance, function, and flow.

If we decide such an update is warranted, I for one would be happy to assist.

Speaking as the top poster here, these forums have definitely seen a reduction in activity. imho, it was the unchecked political threads that got very personal and ran a lot of people away.

imho - I think it's a combo of many factors:

1 biggest factor is simply the drop off in cat sailing and racing in the USA

2 the personal attacks on this thread from time to time (think wouter)

3 the beat down people get when they give wrong technical advice

4 political arguments - especially when they sneak into non political threads

5 the degradation of other people's political views that ostracize people (i.e. when Todd_Sails he calls people dumecrats and such) - this is completely out of line and there is no room for this in a sailing site. I would have kicked him out if I ran this forum

the data is not outdated - maybe the look and feel of it is, but there is no need to re-envent the wheel or spend 100's-1000s of hours chaning it to a newer looking format.

If you can't figure out how this site works... than ask for help

I have been a web developer for almost 20 years now and in my opinion - this is a sailing forum, i see no need to

pretty it up

or spend any time or money into adding un-needed features.

My 2 cents,

I agree that the site is a little dated, but I do not think that has much to do with a decline in use.

I also think that with the current traffic, I would prefer is consolidated into just one or 2 sections. Some of the other sections have no recent activity at all other than spam. Its mostly all the same group anyways lets lump all Tech together and generate more traffic and conversation on them.

If I posted an A-class question in that section now, I have my doubts on it being seen by more than 10% of the people here.

Thanks for the analysis, guys.
Rick

As a moderator and admin on several other forums....its not just catsailor forum that's seeing a 'decline' in use, its a global thing in which all forums are suffering from....

simply its

speed

Facebook groups have taken over much of the daily chitchat and social aspect of most forums. <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
Its fast and its fun via FB, the humble forum however is slow and tedious in comparision.

Tech advise on the FB (facebook) sites is simply linked back to the forums and so little use other than a data base occurs

Purely an example.... lets say I get a PM from Rick, I wont receive that until I'm logged in which most likely is tomorrow, on FB however that message is instant and so is my reply.... the same applies to this thread, I wont see any reply's until I'm logged in next time, on FB however I'm instantly notified and can respond the same..

FB also allows a far easier form of

posting

and the addition of posting pics over a forum, any fool with a 'smartphone' can add a photo to their FB group, its always a suprise here and on other forums just how many people ask the usual

how do I post pics ?

as for the site the way it is.....
When I first joined I though the layout was a disaster, almost a thrown together jumble of tacked on bits and pieces, but... having been here a while now I'm used to it and have a better 'feel" for the way I use the forum......
having said that, there are many sections I don't use at all or would have any need to even view.... the use of these sections seems to say much the same for many users here too, they are dead wood at the best

Kingy

IMO the sections are priceless I can go back as far as I like in any section and find posts, if it was all combined I would have to go through a lot of newer posts. I think it's fantastic that we have a newer member that is interested enough to want to contribute to the forum and wonder if he could have a crack at doing something.

Yea, I certainly wasn't trying to talk down the site but I do think it can be streamlined somehow, maybe with a fresh home page with the sub forums listed under drop down tabs ( i.e., F16, F18, Hobie Class, Open Class, General, Tech Help, Racing , Photo's and Classifieds ) A calendar on the front page that registered users can edit and add events to at any time. and maybe a Current top 20 posts so that if someone makes a post in ANY sub forum it auto

Bumps up

to top of the list by post date. Same with sub forums, newest posts go straight to the top of the list.
Even though i'm a hobie guy, I always enjoy reading what others have to say about all things sailing, racine, tuning, repairs etc etc.

I know web design is VERY time consuming and it wouldn't be feasible to ask someone to donate many dozens of hours of their time to get the work done to make things look amazing, but if someone popped up and said

Hey, i'll do the job for $xxx.00

i'd be more than willing to donate because yes, new, younger people are accustomed to a more flashy faster interface and i'm willing to invest in sailing gaining momentum again. Literally, for the price of a new game console, a PC and a few games someone can own a cat and get out on the water, mingle with friends that aren't virtual on FB and learn a skill!

Tim, I won't say that all younsters nowadays are wimps and pussy's.

But if you mean younsters<20 years, I suggest that they first start really cat-sailing before joining a forum about that.
The questions they encounter then will arise automatically. And at that moment a non flashy interface of the internetforum is the least important.

And the fact that they have to learn and find their way on this forum (it took me a year) is fine. Compared to my childhood these younsters are already so spoiled that I often wonder how they will end as human beings.
Yes, I know, I now sound like a grumbling old man (which I'm sometimes).

You can see in the signature of my posts that I had already on very young age a drive to the sea and sailing. There was no money in those days just after second world war. I had to start with a home-made wooden canoe and I had to figure it out all by myself.

You want to seduce them via a bling-bling site to catsailing; I would say the opposite. Nothing wrong with a threshold.

Maybe I'm another one of those old crumudgeons, but I like the format of the catsailor forums far better than some other groups (google, yahoo, etc) in terms of it's simplicity and ease of navigation.

Many cases it's much easier to find the information I'm looking for here. I'm sure it would be much better with subject lines being more specific (and possibly in the sub-forums rather than the general one).

It is fun to hop around the sub-forums to see what the various interest groups are talking about. Even though I've moved on to the three-legged variety (trimarans) I still find relevant information and discussions on tactics, sail/boat handling, repair/renovation, and general sailing conversations.

I do agree, however, that most of the

chat

has moved to other platforms (FB, twitter, instagram, etc) but I don't subscribe to those platforms so I'm sure I miss out on all the current stuff. This is most likely a GOOD thing, since I'd be willing to bet a lot of that chat contains off-topic stuff (like some of the political threads and cyber-yakkity threads here which I'm CERTAIN have soured many middling and top sailors on this site)..

What purpose then, in this discussion, should we aim for with a forum such as this? I agree it is a treasure-trove of historical and technical data.

As to the front page, it might benefit from a cleaner look but it's nice to have the news up front like that. I find today's news websites a little too cluttered as well (information overload to my luddite brain). Perhaps toss in some non-race oriented stuff (sailing with pets/kids, product reviews, new sailing grounds, hotel reviews, etc. often found in the newsprint version).

I'd make Jake one of the regular contributing writers. He's awesome at documenting stuff (like repairs and other technical stuff) and he's my go-to guy for graphics and advice when

the front fell off

. Roland and Phill are great too with their projects.

I can't recall the guy (Isotope?) but some of those discussions on tactics and rules is HUGE-a. Throw that in some sort of

rules corner

and reference some of those ISAF decisions and noobs and experts alike would benefit.

The post-incident reviews (what happened, why, what could be done different) are good reads on why masts broke, boats collided, and other stuff when SHTF (* hits the fan). The personal drama stories that VOR and the other big events are focusing on are always drawing eyeballs and web-clicks, and there is plenty of that here in the forums.

wait, I just figured out how to post stuff....
Where is Wouter? We actually met him at a Spring Fever regatta many years back, I kinda miss the banter.

Lack of activity is certainly one issue. It ebs and flows with the seasons, but does seem much slower these days. I think spammers cause me the worst issues. Jump to active threads only to find the post is a spammer. We moderate all new users at the Hobie site... delays new posts sometimes, but a big help. Also... no political threads.

Regardless, I appreciate all that Rick and Mary have done to make this site available for our review, input, drivel, etc.

I'm sure it can't be easy... or cheap

Firstly, Welcome Tim!!!!! Having a fresh perspective is always a good thing.

I agree that there is a lot of good info here, and it is not easy to navigate.

I spend time on other forums (car repairs, etc.), which aren't necessarily flashier, but have far greater volume of users and data, and are far more compartmentalized, so finding the right info can be a challenge.

One thing that I think would help (personal/brand attacks) would be to have more moderators, who are empowered to stop the train before it gets completely off the tracks. No one wants to be censored, but sometimes people act like they really need it. This isn't SA, nor should it be.

Mike

I disagree, Flash/Bling of Americas cup sparked interest in Catamaran sailing. The same goes for a website like this. We don't know who passes by this site. This is 2015, it shouldn't take a year to learn how to navigate a website.

The status-quo isn't exactly booming.

for those of you working in

today's media

(FB, Twitter, etc), is that medium

searchable

?

Like if I recall someone has some diamond wire settings they posted a year ago, can I search FB and retrieve them?

Of the catsailors out there, how many (%) spend time online?

If 100%, where are they going for the most part?

Would a Catsailor mobile app be effective?

For Mobile... We installed TapaTalk on the Hobie forums and it does seem get a bunch of users. So many people are using mobile browsing. I do it at home too... I use a mini iPad a lot. I still prefer to browse forums on a desktop, but people needing tech support at the beach would love mobile friendly sites.

No - that is why forums are still valuable

considering the 1000's of registered users of this site hardly post anymore....

what would a mobile app do? This is a forum, not a chat service, or interactive game.

anyone can read the forums on their smart phone if they were sooo desperate to see the

current

thread...

Forums and Blogs were the

Social Media

before facebook changed the game.

IMHO in the USA - Catamaran sailing is a sport for the

older

generation - i don't see any young locals having any interest

Around here it's jetski's, SUP's, windboarding.

When we have races, it's largely 40 or 50 year olds or older

Our local shop just went out of business this month, When i go to the local hobie shop, it's all about kayaks and scuba gear.. the sailing department is in the back closet and dwindling and if i ever see a customer there, it's an older male looking for line or replacement parts for their legacy boats.

Our beach is 95% pre 1997 cats

8 years ago when i bought my 1985 TheMightyHobie18 there were 10-15 catamarans on the water every weekend. The past 2 years there have been 3 of us that are there regularly ... I am 47, the other guys are 53 and 73 years old. NO new / young sailors around here at all.

any

new

people i see sailing are in their 50's

Matt, i am curious, has there been any real bump in cat sales since the AC?

How have wildcat sales in the US been?

I think Cat sales are still pretty good. Hobie 16 is pretty strong... Wave, Getaway, T2... Wild Cat is not so hot. Seems the F18 deal was shaky... too many changes for the class to stay strong. Harder on the boat owners and players like us where we build in numbers. The Hobie Class was built on minimal changes.

The America's Cup spiked interest, but not sure it related to new sailors. Nothing huge anyway.

Don't be a dumbass.

Agreed.

America's Cup ect is making Racing catamarans look fun again. Look at all the youth racing classes sprouting up.... 16 foot spinnaker boats and now foiling catamarans. There's an opportunity to catch young peoples attention and gravitate them to the sport. Not talking about *bling. Does this site have too much bling? ( http://sailinganarchy.com/ )
Imagine something similar with America's cup pics, AC45 World series, the new Phantom and Race news and feeds from around the world ( BTW almost every major beach now has live streaming web cams )

I meet 10-20 guys every year ( ages 15-50 ) whilst launching or landing my cat that come running down the beach asking about sailing, is it difficult? Where are the resources? Is there a community? I want to learn about it! Its even easier when they're 5 -6 cats pulling up on a beach after sailing up and down the area while people camping and people out on motor boats have been staring you down for a few hours <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" /> there IS an interest.
We just need every opportunity to turn someone merely interested, into a boat owner that has a blast feeling what we guys already know about. I'm not dissing the guys that started out cat sailing by lashing two canoes together six feet apart with bamboo and using their feet to steer upwind both ways haha. The site really is fine as is but it also took me a good while to dig around, figure out what a formula 16 trapseat was, formula 20? I have a non formula Hobie 20? is there anything on that!?? ect ect.

I sailed my Hobie 16, 3 weeks after buying it and had never been on a catamaran ever, but i knew the sailing basics. Now most warm weekends in the summer I take out a couple 17yo's for a 30 minute sail on my 16, 10 mph wind, show them how to launch, tack, jybe ( not flip )and make it back to the beach where we started and they're hooked! I let 'em group up and sail around the lake on my spare 16 for hours at a time. ( keeping an eye on them of course, life jackets mandatory ) There is a BIG interest of Younger sailors here..... The teenagers are getting tired of sitting on dads pontoon boat watching me fly a hull past them <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

Besides all the negative political spam I hear about there's got to be a way to inform and encourage new sailors without too many obstacles and hurdles.

BTW, have you guys seen the GC 32 catamarans??!! Watch the vids, holly cow!

Activity is clearly down.

Why? Probably many reasons.

Some of the most visible characters have moved on to different interests.
Others are probably out sailing.
Facebook and other new channels take a lot of traffic.

No worries though. Spring is soon here again and I can go sailing again.

Okay Tim, reading your inspired remarks about younsters on the beach and the pontoons, I conclude that you have a really interest in raising up the youth with regard to sailing.
You are not alone in this, there are in every sport innumerable youthtrainers, coaches and volunteers which all are to be praised for spending their (often) freetime.

Being a windsurfer of the first hour, I spend 40 years each weekend on the beach between and with younsters. I enjoyed that very much, and still do. Specially when I got older, it made me somehow feel younger.
I've seen two beach-generations growup. When I walk in the city, I met known grownup guys with kids and younsters on their hands which I've learned windsurfing in the waves when they themselves were still kids. But I've also seen that a part of them was getting hooked on harddrugs or commiting suicide or ending in prison.
(I was invited for the Duth Big Brother II for being the older mature man in the group, which I ofcourse refused)

The last ten years I spend half of my summertime in the beachpost of the local beachguard, actually living daily between the youth. And I've seen the upcoming of the socialmedia and the influence of it on them.

But I keep saying that all this has less to do with this forum and its interface. I've said before in another thread that I consider this forum as a hangout bar where catsailors have a sort of after-sport time, discussing, sharing experiences, showing pictures and videos and finally feeling globally connected to each other.