Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO

No moderation! I am opposed to censorship and I don't subscribe to the idea that one persons views/moral compass should drive an opinion board visited by a very diverse group. When someone gets out of line the community does a pretty good job of calling them out and the thread dies or a handful of posters go off and have their own little **** fight. It's pretty easy to figure out who posts something you want to read and who doesn't. I also want to know ahead of time who I should I avoid on the beach or a least what subject matter is off limits. Eye rolls can be involuntary if you're not prepared for the comment.

Pirate nailed it, forums are dead tech for news feeds. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram... is simply too easy to use and post real time. Posting from a smart phone to this forum is a bit of a hassle compared to modern social media sites. Have you ever tried to bring up the main page on your mobile device? The site needs a proper scrubbing, more isn't always better.

Leave the forum alone. Clean up the front page and make it relevant or do nothing and let the new tech replace the site.

For the uninitiated that looks like a personal attack. But Brogger is being funny and Brogger being funny is a rare moment indeed. His overly sunny disposition often gets in the way of his wit. It would have been a shame to have lost this moment in the name of moderation.

Oh, and I'll wade through 30 minutes of forum posts for little nuggets like Karls.

I'd heard that <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Now... that certainly is a miss-quote!

Tim, I'd direct your attention to the

what have you done for sailing lately?

thread.

Lots of gems in there. The easiest is to just have interested folk hop on your boat for a quick ride or two. Then they can see for themselves it's not rocket science, it's fun, and you can send them on to your local club or dealer...

Speaking of dealers, I'm sure they'd be happy if you offered to take some of their curious customers out for a ride when you are available. With the exception of a few, many dealers don't have inventory sitting around rigged to sail.

Hope it helps.

Interesting questions...... <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

& its a tough thing to figure out with any degree of accuracy due to the fact that people's usage changes.
When a

hot topic

is on the go and an individual is heavily involved in that topic then the time online can be almost non-stop....
I'd bet those that got tied up in the highly volatile political threads were most likely simply clicking the refresh tab every couple of minutes just waiting to vent their position yet again
<img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" />
On the other hand when its quiet then we all tend to get offline more and actually enjoy the real life
<img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

As to where people go.....
I frequent several other forums and I'm sure others do likewise be they sailing forums or forums related to the individuals other 'hobies', mine would be car and 4x4 forums for example.
Once the forums are dealt with then its time to run a closer eye over the FB groups purely incase I missed something
<img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

Mobile app for the forum ????
We did a trial on one of the car forums I run and we simply created a FB group with the same name as the forum, we then notified the members of the FB group and invited them to join.
Around 75% of active members joined up within a few days and the rest soon followed, there was however a few that flatly refused to join...... strangely enough they were the ones that had historically been the members that were the argumentative type in the 'political' style threads.
I guess that they didn't want their

real name

seen by those they'd pi$$ed off
<img src="<>/sick.gif" alt="sick" title="sick" height="15" width="15" />

The social side of the forum then moved rapidly to the FB group and the chitchat section on the forum died within weeks, for some that was bad and for others it was great.
The social side of the FB group improved member relationships dramatically to the point where social get-togethers have become an almost monthly event with a strong and increasing turnouts, something we struggled with when we only had the forum.
The tech side of the forum saw a drop off for around 8months but then recovered back to its usual rate of posts and now is heavily used on a daily basis

All up as an

experiment goes

, we found the FB group IS an asset to the forum for the social side only..... when worked correctly the two work in harmony and are a compliment to each other.

would an app work here ???? perhaps if the front page was cleaned up a lot !
its too segmented at the moment and needs to be brought into much smaller groups that contain all the subsections ..... and that means a big overhaul for the forum
<img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" />

Mike knows me. He knows I'm just jerking his chain.

Yes and that was my point.

I'll be the first to admit that my sense of humor works better some days than others (especially online vs. face to face). I took Karl's retort as half-sarcastic (and remarkably contained, actually).

But, you have to admit that there have been some threads that have gone so haywire that I could see how people would go away, or newbies would bail, as others have pointed out above.

Moderated forums have their own drawbacks, but the behavior tends to be far more pleasant, aka community building.

Mike

So to Pirate's

social experiment

, if you're on FB or Twitter now (is there some abbreviation for Twitter? Like Twit?) is there a sailing site/page you frequent often?

And for what purpose (social engagements, news/info, smack?)

Perhaps the instant media (FB, instagram, etc) is good for the

live

regatta stuff (and the debautchery at the parties) since people can follow almost real-time ( I recall the pain of waiting for updates on the forum as to who's leading which leg)?

But the forum for it's breadth and wealth of information... where folks have more time to develop thoughts, search, etc...?

Am I starting to get this right?

And have you seen Phill's boat building project in the F-boat sub forum? Holy crap that's cool...

I didn't believe that forums were on the way out but after a little research, it's apparently happening all over the network of tubes for a variety of reasons. On the other hand I can probably list several major contributors that have left these forums in a personal huff that likely spilled over from the political threads (which have nothing to do with the topic of this forum).

...And Phil desperately needs a blog.

just like people here often say

this isn't SA

. other catsailing forums often refer to this site as

harsh, and full of arguments and egos

I don't lose any sleep over people leaving because of fights in the political forum. If you go in there, choose to engage, and get upset enough to leave because you can't handle the opposition; well, that says more about you than the site. Personally, I just don't go into those threads because I have less than zero interest in those discussions on a sailing site.

I disagree that Twitter is faster than forum updates for live mark roundings. Maybe the notification is slower on the receiving end, but I've posted live updates from the water, and it's pretty instantaneous.

Mike

The ignore button is the best feature of this site... works great...

as far as twitter - (which i don't use) it is defiantly easier to get twit feeds on a smart phone for updates

but it is not used by most sailors over 30 years old (i would be the farm that is correct)

this site, and all other forums are suffering from being divided with all the new social media options

I dont think it's the end of the world
this forum and others are still valuable to the people who a. are looking for info b. are accustomed to this system and not interested in updating their method of getting info....

such is life...

CRAM has had success in implementing a Facebook group (link here ). We use it to generate interest for events, post pictures, results, etc., some light Q&A, smack-talk, etc. However, it would never be able to match the coverage of catsailor's technical threads. Its simply not set up to hold (and/or organize) that type of information as a long term matter of record.

FB is complementary to, but not a replacement of a website and forum.

Mike, you know you're making an argument against moderation, right? 🙂 If someone gets insulted and leaves over something said on a forum (by a nit wit) you know they are going to get insulted and leave over something not forum related anyway.

Yes forums are great technical resources... for everything! But is that really the future we want for this site? Just another tech forum? Make the site relevant, timely and entertaining that's what will keep this site vibrant and alive. It will take effort but when you depend on content for a revenue stream you typically have to invest in the content to maintain the demand. Stale content does not generate interest.

I won't visit the SA forums but I will scan the front page, especially when something interesting appears on my FB news feed.

I'm 52 and I use twitter. It's not great but it goes right to my mobile device so... You want the kiddies... spoon feed them that's the world we live in now.

So everyone on that forum agrees with everything said on the forum? Or is it so heavily moderated that any contrary opinion is flushed? And no ego's? Please direct me to this forum of rainbows and unicorns.

I was referring to the TheBeachcats.com, I never said it was full of rainbows and unicorn farts.

there are certainly a differences of opinion, and P.M. and i have had several disagreements on it.

but that is very uncommon on that site.

When I started frequenting this site, the attacks on wouter were a bit shocking (granted i was not around to see the precursor of what caused it). And i had my share of run ins with Todd (not sure which todd, but the one who was the self proclaimed

enforcer of the n20 fleet).

this was a huge turn off, and put me into defensive mode that i have never felt or needed on the other site...

I am saying this as

matter of fact" = not that one is better than the other... to be honest the fighting was interesting and even compelling at times.

heck, at times i was very bored at work and at the time wouldn't mind rattling a few cages and engage in strong dialogue to avoid doing actual work (my boss wasn't so happy with this fact i am sure)

That other site has less traffic/threads and is also very slow, esp this time of year

But i will say with no hesitation, you can/will get your head chopped off on this site much harsher than you will on that site.

there is also a big difference in skill level/experience on this site compared to that one. This site is full of very experienced sailors, engineers, and strong opinions as what is the correct way to do things. the other site is filled with many more newbies and that may have something to do with the strong opinions on this site.

So, as a matter of curiosity, what needs to be

cleaned up

on the front page? I like that it loads fast. It has some advertising, which makes sense, and all the links down the side.
The sailing anarchy front page takes forever to load, and has mostly monohull articles which i am not interested in. Their multihull forum has bits of news from time to time, some arguments, and a few good discussions.
Controversy makes for interesting reading sometimes and get the clicks.
Off the beach catsailing is a very small niche these days and not very popular in the usa. Most of the hot sailors are on boards or moths it seems. Pretty sad the us is having such a hard time qualifying for the olympics on the 17s...

SA has become a mockery of itself. When there isn't enough internal fighting, the hosts try to stir discourse with their

coverage.

Check that, that's not actually a new development...

One thing that's easy to forget during heated discussions, and certainly isn't transparent, is that even when we vehemently disagree over certain points, most of us have the best interest of cat sailing at heart, and a ton of us invest a lot of time to make the sport work. It's sad if our comments/ fighting hide that.

Mike

You can't separate politics from life. You can be oblivious.

Sailing Anarchy is a box of kittens compared to what it was even five years ago.

As far as moderation goes, I much prefer the no moderation/censorship template. I got booted from a woodworking forum a few years ago. That forum was aggressively, and severely moderated. If you said something they didn't like, it would be changed or deleted. That pissed me off to no end, and I called a moderator out on being a jackass, and called him a jack booted nazi, and that got me flicked. Which is sad, because that place was an endless stream of entertainment for me. Nothing more fun than watching people screw up wood. Settle down Ding, you're doing fine. I'm on another woodworking forum, and they've got a little different style. They'll ask you to change something if they don't want it there. I mentioned something about cabinet shops going

tits up

in a thread one day. I got a PM asking me to change it. I asked why. They mod said it was inappropriate. I told him to get his head out of his butt. Tits up is a farm kid term. When a cow dies it falls over, the gasses from digestion don't escape since it's obviously not moving anything through the system, it balloons up, rolls on it's back, and goes tits up.

About twenty years ago, the internet started popping up in a useable by the masses form. About ten years ago forums started getting pretty popular for just about any subject. You collect hermaphrodite, miss stitched, factory screwed up Beanie Babies? I'd bet there's a forum or sub forum that fits your fetish. Up pops a sailing forum at some point. We spend ten years catching up on all the things that have developed over the last three thousand years of sailing. Our technology doesn't move very quickly, so I think we've effectively ran out of subjects. Being this is a male dominated sport, there will also be posturing, there will be chest beating, and there will be who's got the largest dick threads. That's nature of the beast. Don't like it? Pull up your panties, and leave. Mike and I discussed some of this when I was in Rhode Island this past summer. And anyone who knows me in person, (which a lot of you do), I type like I speak. People ask,

what about the kids

? Screw the kids. The little darlings are going to be railing coke off a hookers butt before you know it. A sailing forum and its subsequent influence is the least of your troubles as a parent

The other factor is sailing is a small, niche sport or hobby. Compared to just about anything else you could be doing with your day, sailing is way the F down the list for pretty much everyone. It's complicated, it's expensive, it's really f-ing hard to do well, and it's a massive time suck. So enter the teensy, tiny world of beach cat sailing. We are a minority, within a minority. You get it, I get it, even some people named Todd get it. But this isn't for everybody. What could make it more popular? Hell if I know. Cheaper boats? More exposure? You can't get much more exposed than what the last AC gave us. But then people inevitably ask how much one of those cost, and throw up a little bit when they realize that most people don't have the large half of a billion dollars to play in that sandbox. Cat sailing is fricking voodoo when it comes to most of the leaner crowd as well. I have on numerous occasions when setting up or tearing down the boat at one of the places I launch from, which is next to a yacht club, been asked by some fat dopy white dude stumbling over from the yacht club;

What do you do when it turtles?

My responses vary from

scuttle the boat and call the insurance company

, to

I just pull it up?

Oh, and if you don't like a thread, don't click on it jackass, it's not that ding dong difficult. There's plenty of topics that I don't care a bit for, I don't click on them. It ain't rocket surgery.

Get rid of all the separate links for the forums, the main link is all that's needed. Get rid of every link that doesn't work, if nobody has complained about the link being broken it isn't being used.

The links would be as follows:

Forum
Schedule
Preregistration
Classifieds
Online Store

Basically get rid of the links on the left and just use the menu bar across the top.

Completely overhaul the news blog. Increase the content, and change how it is presented. I like the USF18 and Endurance Series site. The site looks very dated and shows it was born in the 90's.

First off, I really like this forum. Rick, I don't really know you other than from this site but it is evident that you are a passionate cat sailor and I am very grateful to have this forum as a source for advice and friendship. I am sure it takes up a lot of your free time and I hope I speak for everyone when I say that I am grateful for it.

I personally don't see anything wrong with this site. It is easy enough to navigate and search. I've gotten a lot of great advice and met a lot of great people through this site. Without this forum and the Hobie forum, I might still be sailing around a little lake with my half of my boat rigged backwards. I won't even share how I hooked up my main sheet on my

maiden

voyage. It was far from correct.

I also agree with others that this site does not need moderation. We are all adults here. However, I would ask that people think hard about the impact that political discussions on this forum have on future and potential sailors. Think about how many young sailors troll this site. I know I spent several weeks just looking over the forums before I ever made my first post. What impression does it give a new sailor who is on the fence about participating in regattas when they come here and see us bashing each other for our political beliefs? I would be concerned that we scaring away future participants because of how our political attitudes are voiced here. If I were a newbie, I may be worried that I'd end up having to defend my political beliefs or spend a weekend of uncomfortable introversion at an event when I was expecting to have fun. I'd rather talk sailing...anytime. The political talk on this forum has gotten a little out of hand IMO.

I'll say that sometimes people need to put on their big boy pants. If someone gets involved in a discussion then they need to be able to take the heat if and when it comes. Again, I just worry about the impression it gives to potential sailors and participants.

As to the lack of participation on the forums and at events... that's a big one. I consider myself to be of the younger age bracket here at 31. I've tried my damnedest to talk my buddies into buying cheap cats, but they just won't bite. The passion for this kind of sport has to already be there. Sailing is a huge commitment compared with the multitude of past-time activities the youth of today has to choose from. I think continuing to publicize sailing events like the AC needs to continue and we have to keep fighting for our sport.

The tanking economy over the last several years probably hasn't helped either. I've seen several golf courses close lately around my area. I think that is also a testament to a struggling middle class and a reluctance to invest in expensive leisure activities.

Kind of a long ramble to say that I like the forum the way it is. I just think the veterans of this forum need to be more mindful of the impression that they may be sending to the folks that are on the fence about becoming a part of the cat sailor family.

It's always the Nazis, isn't it Karl? <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

I wouldn't say I'm fully in the

free speech/willy

camp, because I don't know if I'd be all for the kind of vitriol, porn, and junk I see in other areas of the

light web

(I'm not even going to the dark web).

BUT, what I do not agree with is the

moderator

flicking a poster or conversation that produces honest criticism of, say, a particular product. There is an F-boat forum that flicked the friggin builder when he made some comments regarding deviations from his plans.

Is politics going to make me a better sailor? No.

Does it possibly affect WHERE I could sail (as in local municpalities closing beaches, etc.)? sure

Would written insults hurled at others benefit my sailing? No, but well written digs entertain the crap out of me...

so the consensus is to leave the forum as it is, but really focus on making that front page flashy and functional, right?

Agree, seems a bit heavy handed to me. Even if the designer got uppity doesn't seem like a valid reason to flick him.

Totally agree, a well crafted and timed insult should always be appreciated. Even if the insult is directed at me I can appreciate it, only after I've had a good cry of course.

Exactly the reason why it should have it's own forum, so that those that don't want to see it, etc., don't have to.

Yea, those Todd's, those hyperintelligent types!, oh wait, I don't get it- Ba ha ha

You guys nailed it...............
Smooth glossy uncluttered front page, forums condensed and perhaps a check box in the lower corner for

notify me when a new post is posted

to a thread your involved in.

The SA reference was merely for the look. Has the really cool column of vids of current events and races right down the middle. There's plenty of beachcat action captured on video to do the same, albeit MOST of the cat action is in Europe. There is currently as we speak a TON of innovation, design and engineering going into the next generation of catamarans, they're damn near airplanes now. Although very few can afford cutting edge catamarans, the catamarans over the last 30 years will soon become dirt cheap as the pro's want to upgrade leaving lower and mid level sailors a chance to snap up a 10 year newer boat while flipping their current boat to someone under them, ect ect.

Currently I see great entry level catamarans, turn key , nothing needed with trailer for $1000 - $2000. Various brands.
Lots of options and newer catamarans for $3k - $6k Race ready and clean. How much does golf gear, hunting gear, fishing gear run? You cant do ANY of that with your woman!

Hahahaha

Many people I chat with at the lake are blown away by how cheap I tell them they can get a decent boat for.