Nacra 6.0 Questions...

Well the 6. NA has this giant of a jib, if fact its so big that its backwind impedes the mainsail tremendously in anything over about 10 knts. Vince Smith's Boat, the one form the Milt Ingram race earlier this year, is a 6.0 NA He says it very nearly sucked before he added the self tacking system and moved the foot of the jib out to the very front of the bows, so that it could no longer impeed the main. The original 6.0's didn't have this overgrown sailplan. As to the differance between the Nactras and the inters, the main thing I see is the hull shape, and the fact that the inters all have spins.

you should see the jib on the 6.0express if you think that the na is big! With the right battens the main backwinding is less of a problem.

I am not sure if the mail sail on the na is the same as the original. Anyone know?

Anyway, there are tons of differences from the 6.0 to the I20. A lot of thinking went into the I20. Its much more crew friendly. Although I think that the 6.0 hull shape is better than the I20. And no it doesn't suck with the factory jib placement. Its just not what I would consider a good high wind boat. Over 20 knots of wind is not its strong point. But, from about 8 to 16-17 it rocks. Pretty tough boat to beat, but the learning curve is long and steep compared to other boats. I see no real reason to "upgrade" to the I20, other than class racing.

O.K.....First, the 6.0:

the 6.0 came out what? mid to late 80's (someone correct me). It didn't do so well and there were several different versions produced. The plain and simple "6.0" was the first version of this. Then there was the 6.0 Express that added a huge jib that sheeted back in the middle of the trampoline. Nacra later hit gold when they developed the 6.0NA adding the bridle foil, large (but not as large as the express) jib, and a taller mast with a larger mainsail. I can't remember the numbers but the 6.0NA sold like hotcakes compared to the dismal sales of the previous versions.

The I20 is a whole 'nother beast designed by Melvin and Morrelli. Totally different hulls, carbon fiber mast, higher aspect ratio foils and sail plan, carbon fiber mast, and designed around a spinnaker. While the I20 and 6.0 share some basic parameters and are close in potential speed, they are very different boats.

Technically, Morelli and Melvin designed the Inter 18, and Performance Cats stretched it to the 20 without their input.

One of the reasons you don't see many of the early 6.0's is they were hard to come by.

The first of the 6.0's was the Prosail 20. The local dealer said we couldn't buy them unless we were sailing the Prosail circuit. The 6.0 was supposed to be a consumer version of the Prosail 20. I never saw a 6.0 outside of Florida or heard of a dealer that could get one except by special order. The first 6.0 that I saw ordered and delievered by normal means was the 6.0NA.

Josh,

The reason I'm asking about the Nacras is in fact a result of the Milt Ingram race this year. Not sure you or Vince know of this, since Vince wasn't around after the race to hear about it. But, the boat sailed by Richard B. placed 3rd on corrected & second across the line. I was first over the line and 2nd on corrected. Vince on the Nacra 6.0 NA was some 20 minutes behind me and in 4th place over the line. On the 5 hour race, he was 1st. Richard questioned what his handicap should have been, since he believed the boat wasn't running stock sails (square top main & foil located right at the bow tips). Since we couldn't investigate further, we all agreed to let the results stand.

Mike.

What is this Prosail 20 thing? I thought the Prosail circuit was only Formula 40's and Hobie 21's.

Are you talking about that Florida professional circuit that existed for a short time? It was called the Topcat or something like that?

Mike, Vince is running the same sail area as the stock boat, so thats why he takes the 6.0 NA handicap. The reason you guys had to give him so much time was because he did not run a spin. His main is actually a tiny bit smaller than the stock sail, reason being the it is cut to accomodate the abnormal mast rake he carries. I'm not familiar enough to know if any of these things require a handicap adjustment, we always kinda ssumed that since we weren't flying extra sail, we shouldn't have to take a knock, but maybe wrong. If you look at my website there is a pretty good picture of the boat, rigged on the trailer.

IF the boat is not class legal you take a hit. He should take a 0.995 hit for the mainsail. The jib is a grey area. I wouldn't give him a hit for the jib but you could.

Yeah - there is an additional handicap for running a square top on a boat that is rated with a pin head. This square top rating (MN) is applicable as long as your sail area is within +5% of the stock sail and the exact wording is:

If you have more than 5% of stock sail area, another handicap rating will apply. Assuming everything else is factory, the DPN Rating (as per the current numbers) should have been 62.7 + 0.995 = 62.4 (but that's a tiny difference).

I can't help but wonder if Vinny is gonna be flattered or annoyed that his boat brought so much attention, lol. If he wasn't so technologically impared i woulod make him get on here and look himself.

Yes, the Portsmouth mod tables clearly state a non-class legal main of same area or less takes a small hit. The jib, while not a different sail, is repositioned...and as you state, the boat runs much better without the backwinding...thus this is definately a performance improvement and should fall under the "Other Changes" section of the mod tables...which would result in a further .995 hit (they are additive).

Working the numbers shows a single .995 hit to his finish time would've placed him back into 4th...same position he finished on real time...

Mike.

Well I'm not really siure what you want to get from me, I'll let vinny know so he keeps that in mind next time, i don't see any races in the near future. Incedentilly, what is the hit for adding a kite to that boat?

From the mod table, MH Mods

a boat without spin/genoa headsail carrying one: .960

why is there a bigger penalty for a square top than there is for having a larger mainsail? .995 vs .980 that doesn't make sense to me.

.980 is a bigger hit - multiply your rating by the modification. The lower the rating, the faster the boat, the more time you have to make up.

Are you guys talking about this boat? And it was fast with THAT much rake!? Perhaps off the wind but convention tells me that this boat would be a mess with that much rake. Oooo Wow...I just noticed that the bridle foil is attached to the tips of the bows too - man, what a wacky monster!

I thought is was super strange when i first saw it too. The rig is very fast. That much rake makes that boat go to weather like no other, when our local little yacht club has lake races and we pass all the monohauls, that boat points higher than the lidos and daysailors. Roy Seaman was the brain behind the rig I believe.(almost positive) That foil moved out to the very tip is what allows for the self tacker. I have done the same thing with my 5.2. I cannot rake that mast nearly that far, because my mainsheet will go block-to-block, and I am not willin to have my sail re-cut. This has allowed me to put a 5.8 jib on the boat though. I can beat Vinces 5.5 and 5.7 boat-to-boat with this setup. Granted these boats are old, in fact the 5.5 is the one that had a couple gallons of water in each hull after I turned back during the Milt Ingram race(i thought it felt really sluggish) Anyhow, we speculate that I am the first person to try this with a 5.2, and unfortunately i don't think that any of my pictures of that boat reflect that modification, as it broke once and more recently someone stole the blocks that conrol the job(AAAARRRRgGG) Anyhow, yes this boat is fast, and the only advers affect of that much rake that we have noticed is that it can be a terrible pain to trapeze on that boat for the crew, the mast seems to pull you backward, Vince had to put in footstraps.

It would be great if we could get Roy's comments. Anyone have his email/contact info?

Seems to me the Tornado out pointed/sailed faster than all others for the 1st 40 min of the Milt Ingram this year. Then the wind lightend up to ~2-5 knots and the I20's & Vince caught up. Al Thompson went wat left initially, footing off for speed, we lost sight of him in the fog when we were ~.5 mile ahead. After the drop in wind, we saw him...crossing our bows ~.5 mile ahead!!! We later found we were in a big header and didn't realize til too late (damn fog!).

Mike.

Vince was on the other tack, they headed north along the coast for several miles, I suspect when you thought he caught hup, it was just because he was returning to being within sight. I never saw them once after the start, I saw you guys for a long time, steadily pulling away, unable to hear the volley of profanity I was using against my boat, the wind, myself, and the fact i had just realized I forgot to put on sunblock.

There was also a 20. I do not know how much the 20's actually raced. I only saw 1. It was sitting in the dealers lot waiting on a sponsored team, to pick it up. Based on my memory of surrounding events, that was probably the start of Prosails last full year.