Apparently NeilPryde has ventured into bicycles:
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His bikes do look good. The Alize is around $5,200.00 and only weights 15 lbs or so. Bikes of that weight are usually around $8,000.00 - $10,000.00.
Any bike over $3k is going to weigh in right around 15lbs; at that point you're only paying more for the components and wheelset. That's a very high price point for someone who is just starting production.
Really! I'm in the need of a second bike. I'd love one around 15 lbs for $3K. Could you point be in the right direction. Btw, the Dura Ace Group that's on that bike is $2,600.00 new.
It's like sailing in that way. Nothing's cheap anymore. Have you bought a new sail from Performance lately?
Tom
http:/
The BMC Pro SLC 01 is at 15lbs for about $2899
A Cervelo S2 can be had around $4k at 14lbs.
Trek Madone 5.2 is 16lbs stock and can be purchased below $3,500
I have to agree about the pricing in the cycling world, they blow me away sometimes; in the same way performance blows me away at the quote of a new sail. I don't know what Performance's markup for sails is, but I know the markup for bikes can be astronomical.
Thanks!
I did a check on the cheap BMC model, and it was 15.3 lbs for like $3,800.00. I couldn't believe it until I saw the SRAM group which is fine. I guess that group has helped bring the price down. I'm a little behind on the technology since 2004 I guess. My frame is a 2004 Titanium Litespeed Vortex. (Dura Ace .... 59cm) It's about 15.5 or so but cost around $3,300 used from the plant in Chattanooga, TN (in 2005) with full warranty.
I still worry about those carbon frames though since I've seen several broken in half, and as you know, there's no warranty when you are involved in a crash. They do look good though. I've crashed twice on the Litespeed and got busted up both times, but the bike was fine....
Tom
btw, I broke my mast once on my Nacra F17 so maybe that's part of my problem with the carbon fiber bikes.
is your
mark up
based on raw materials? how about manufacturing equipment costs and overhead? and R&D? I was pretty amazed watching them in the wind tunnels with Lance a few years ago, detecting where dimples in the clothing have the best air flow, etc
Raw materials are cheap. Most bike frames are produced in mass on assembly lines in China or Taiwan. The stuff that goes on the bikes (components/wheels/brackets etc) is what really jacks the price up and can often cost three and four times what the frame itself costs. Then the bike is sold to a dealer, and the dealer is the person you buy the bike from. After going through multiple streams of production like this, the markup between the production cost of a bike and the MSRP can be pretty high. The markup from what a local shop alone buys/sells a bike for is usually 3X: $500 bike sells for $1500. This isn't a shock or anything, everything is like this. But next time you're around a bike shop, go in and check out some of their carbon bikes and try not to ask yourself w..t..f.. makes this bicycle cost $8,000?
I did a check on the cheap BMC model, and it was 15.3 lbs for like $3,800.00. I couldn't believe it until I saw the SRAM group which is fine. I guess that group has helped bring the price down. I'm a little behind on the technology since 2004 I guess. My frame is a 2004 Titanium Litespeed Vortex. (Dura Ace .... 59cm) It's about 15.5 or so but cost around $3,300 used from the plant in Chattanooga, TN (in 2005) with full warranty.
I still worry about those carbon frames though since I've seen several broken in half, and as you know, there's no warranty when you are involved in a crash. They do look good though. I've crashed twice on the Litespeed and got busted up both times, but the bike was fine....
Tom
btw, I broke my mast once on my Nacra F17 so maybe that's part of my problem with the carbon fiber bikes.
Titanium bikes are awesome and that Lightspeed is gorgeous. As far as durability it seems that carbon is as durable as any other frame offered, and if a crash is bad enough to break or crack a frame it will probably do so regardless of the material. Some companies however sell CHEAP carbon bikes, but they are sketchy about it and their method of laying carbon can often result in it cracking or breaking.
As far as SRAM goes, they are the next big thing. A LOT of people now prefer SRAM over Shimano. It's cheaper, and lighter.
The problem I have with these NeilPryde bikes are the cost of the frames alone versus the cost of the full bike. $2,500 for a frame seems extremely high considering the full bike costs $5,400, and considering you can get high quality frames that are lighter from distinguished manufacturers for the same price. Also consider that since these are direct to the consumer bikes, unless you are skilled at building a bike (not easy) you're going to be paying another couple hundred to a local shop to have it built.
Don't get me wrong they are damn nice bikes; but at that price you're focusing on a very restricted market already dominated by top names, which might make it tough to sell bikes under a brand new name.
Trek Madone 6.9 SSL w/Dura Ace - $8,714.99
Trek Madone 5.9 w/mix of Dura Ace, Ultegra - $3,989.99
No prices listed for frames.
Trek Madone 5.9 w/mix of Dura Ace, Ultegra - $3,989.99
No prices listed for frames.
Big differences between the two. The wheel set on the 6.9 is carbon and runs about $3,000, while the wheel set on the 5.9 can be had for about $600. Also the new 6 series Madones are made in the U.S. and use a different type of carbon for the frame-- OCLV Hex, while the 5 series is made in Taiwan.
Or for just a little more coin, you could be riding THIS bike, and it's a LOT faster than the Madone SSL!
Oh, and you don't have to pedal either...
http:/
Oh, and you don't have to pedal either...
http:/
The desmodromic valve system is witchcraft.
Bet you can't burn 40 calories a mile on it though!
As a former cafe racer there were times when a lot of calories were expended from the near misses. The best was cruising along at 100+ and having another bike pass while going into a death wobble. He slid under the bike in front of me. I probably expended 1,000 calories jamming on the brakes and trying to find a hole through the carnage. An additional 100 were expended cleaning my under ware.
It wasn't long after when I sold my crotch rocket and got a Hobie 16. I never looked back. I started biking to control weight. I try to do 40 miles a day.
I would not worry about the warranty on the carbon frame,even before you crash it. If it is anything like the warranty on their carbon windsurfing masts, once you have pedalled the first stroke the warranty will be invalid.
Once you have used the mast ONCE, it is out of warranty, as the product has then been used
out of their control
. Go figure, you rig the sail on it first time, set the downhaul to the correct specs on the sail, and the mast goes bang. NP have had a long line of unhappy customers on their 100% carbon x9 race masts from what I have read on the windsurfing forums, as they broke if you looked at them funny, and the warrnty is invalidated by use of the product.
Having said that I have a 30% carbon mast from NP and have not broken it, seems only the 100% carbon masts are not up to the job.
Just to give an idea of how bad it was, we were all standing around waiting for the race director to get us going, kit rigged up, when one sailor`s mast went bang. Without flinching, another sailor looked at him and said
X9?
.
You`re not meant to let them be used in direct sunlight.. <img src="<>/crazy.gif" alt="crazy" title="crazy" height="15" width="15" />
I experienced the same when dealing with Pryde - broke an X9 boom (not cheap) I'd only had it a couple of weeks. The dealer said
no problem, we'll get that replaced
but after TWO months of haggling gave up and the dealer gave me a 20% discount on a replacement boom by Aeron and I sold the broken one to another windsurfer at the club who also had an X9 that was broken and was able to make one from the two.
Not impressed with NP customer service AT ALL!
Trek should get into the mast business. Their bike frames are guaranteed for life as long as it's the first owner.
funny... I had an old No Limitz wave mast that was truely a brick. The warranty was great - they said if you break it they'll replace it. Never did, even after some really stupid stuff (read: amature trying stunts that he had no business trying in close-out chest high surf), and surviving 40 knot winds in Andrew in SE FL.
Trek bikes carbon production is moving from Wisconsin to China/Taiwan/Asia next year. Cannondale did so last year. It has become financially impractical to produce bike frames in the US. The very-high-end/$10k Trek bikes may stay in the US because the carbon is considered military grade.
Every time I buy a bike, it makes me think that catamarans are one of the last best buys... even the new Nacra F20 is cheap compared to a Trek project one.