New cat user - maybe!

Lake Erie is a great place to sail a catamaran! You're weight gives you a lot of options with regard to boat choices too. One that is very active in the Ohio area is the Mystere 4.3 and it would probably fit your needs well. The Hobie 16 would be a great choice as I'm sure other people will chime in with other choices too.

I agree with Jake. Another option may be the Hobie Wave (might be a bit too small) or the F16 (might be a little bit more exciting boat than you want)

http://www.geocities.com/F16HPclass/index.html

I think you will find the people here very helpful.
http://www.fleet276.com/

Check out the Catamaran Racing Association of Michigan (CRAM). We are a racing group in Michigan, and I'm sure you can get all the help you need with us! You are definitely not getting in over your head.

http://www.websitemagic.com/cram

Thank you so much for your message ! I need all the info I can get!

Hi frenchie!

Racing or recreational?(or both?)There is a Nacra 5.2 for sale on the classified board.

Hi Nicole-
I am a relative lightweight too, although not nearly as tiny as you are!

For you I also would recommend a Hobie 16, even a used one in good and well-maintained condition and at a decent price (unless you want to spend the $8 or more grand it costs now for a new one).Check the web for websites that give you tips on what to look out for when buying a used catamaran.I believe that a new Hobie16 is over-priced, and the quality has probably gone down in recent years. When I bought mine in 1995, the mast broke in half on its maiden voyage, because the casting was defective. Hobie knew about it but didn't recall the defective masts nor inform its customers.

I'd say, buy a nice older H16, or buy one from Hobie Europe.

I would not recommend a Hobie Wave, it's probably way too amateurish for you and your kids. It has no jib and thus is much slower to sail. However, if you single-hand a lot it may be what you want, you may even be able to right it by yourself if capsizes.

I personally also would not recommend the Hobie Getaway either, it is a very heavy boat to maneuver on the beach.On the other hand, many of my sailing colleagues love the boat as a family fun boat (I personally don't go for boat that have built-in drink holders, LOL!)...I think Hobie dealers are really pushing the Getaway on customers, it's Hobie's money maker.

If you are only 107 lbs, you probably can singlehand the Hobie in steady winds of up to 15mph comfortably(sailors, correct me if I'm wrong here).

I wish you good luck and much fun!!!

..Oh yeah, if you don't want a Hobie--get a Nacra. Great boat (I have one also, in addition to my Hobies). Call the Cat House in Saginaw Michigan--he's got all kinds of nice used boats!

Nicole,

The western end of Lake Erie is very shallow and has lots of shoals, so I would stay away from boats with daggerboards / centerboards.

Good, used H-16's are available at a reasonable cost - usually less than $2,000 for boat and trailer. There's a guy in the Detroit Hobie Fleet (www.fleet276.com) that has two boats in decent shape that he needs to part with. Send me a PM and I'll put you in touch with him.

At 107 lbs., you're a H-16 crew to die for. (Minimum total crew weight for racing is 285#; that lets the other person be 178 without carrying weights.) If you're interested, the first event in the season is at Lake Fenton (south of Flint) on April 23,24 - I'm sure we could get you a ride on somebody's boat.

You could also go with a Hobie 14, but the ability to carry more than one of your kids is limited. The 14 really doesn't like more than 200 lbs on the boat. Then again, decent 14's can be had (with trailer) for less than $1,000.

I also have to refute what Catwoman said about the quality of the newer 16's. I've found the newer 16's (1995 > present) to be much better quality that older ones. I have a '98 H-16 that has had no problems and is still at minimum class weight (320#). The factory supplied boats we raced at the Worlds last year in Mexico were even better. Lots of little tweaks to make the boat easier to sail and last longer. Those boats held up really well in 2 weeks of daily use by hard-core racers. Still, $7K - $8K is a lot to pay for a H-16, especially if you're only doing it recreationally.

Like Catwoman said, give Mark at the Cathouse a call. He can help you out immensely, even if you don't buy a boat from him. Rarely ever will you find a guy like Mark that will help you, even if you don't buy a boat from him. His website is www.cathouse1.com .
Trey
N20 314
Layline Rigging
www.velocitysailing.com

Actually, the western end of Lake Erie my neck of the woods in the summer.
Two very good events pop into mind:
1) In June is the Round the Bay Race that starts in LaSalle, MI and returns there.
2) In August is the I-LYA Bay Week at Put-in-Bay, Ohio is a great one. There will be a fleet of Waves there all summer and we will be doing beer can races on Wednesdays and at least one day each weekend (just fun, get together races)
Also, there is usually a fleet of the Mystere 4.3 at BayWeek as well.

At your weight the Wave or the 4.3 would be excellent choices. l
We hope to have about a half dozen Waves in the fleet at PIB soon.., maybe more.

And the Wave can be souped up pretty easily and without much expense.
Rick

Nicole,

There is a Hobie 14 turbo on e-bay right now. Looks like it is in Toledo. Not too bad a drive. Might be a good boat for you.

John

For her and two kids?

Hi MBOUDS-

are you sure the H16s you are talking about are not from Hobie Europe?

I can only speak from the experience of my many sailor colleagues (we have at least 200-300 cats on our beach) who've recently bought H16s and TheMightyHobie18 SX. The TheMightyHobie18's dagger boards went bad right away, with the edges chipping off. 2 H18sx owners had their jibs shredded in less than 2 seasons.

Then there were problems with rudders on several new boats (both H16 and TheMightyHobie18). On another H16 the forestay screws ripped out of the front hull. Another guy's wing came off his H18sx, although he only had himself and a couple of little kids on the wing at the time (expensive repair, since it has to be welded back in). Then there were numerous other smaller, but nevertheless annoying quality problems, such as problems with sail shape (seems different every time, often with that annoying huge bulge), or razor sharp edges on that thing through which you thread the sail. Another boat owner had proplems w/raising the sail the first time, first he couldn't raise it because the sail edge was too thick to fit through (took 3 guys to hoist it), then it absolutely refused to hook in on top.

I could go on and on. In my experience the older Hobies were much better and more solid. Sail shape of the really old ones from the 1970s and 80s is much flatter, for example.

I found the relative simplicity of the Nacra much easier to handle.

Oh--here I sound like I HATE Hobies! Not at all!

I LOVE my H16, especially in big waves (I wouldnt take my Nacra 5.8na out in this). My 9-year old H16 never really had many problems, except that the mast snapped in half (like a piece of straw) during its maiden voyage in gusty SW winds. This, of course ripped the sail when we managed to take it off the mast. Hobie gave me a new mast right away and, ffter a bit of a reluctance, Hobie agreed to replace the sail, rather than just mending the old one. After that, I only had a minor problem with loose rudders but we fixed that by putting reinforcing steel plates to where the rudders attach.

The boat is still great, is light & fast and fun to ride.

H14s are fun but they like to pitchpole if you're not watching. We also found the H14 much harder to right than a H16 because the hulls are so short and they are hard to balance. We once capsized w/our old 14 (may I say this was a 14 sailed by Hobie Alter himself in one of the early regattas!!) near the shore break, and it was IMPOSSIBLE to right, even w/us 2 on it. I had to swim in, and my friend "windsurfed" the boat in, and then righted it on the beach.

Catwoman,

The 2004 H-16 Worlds boats were from Hobie USA.

If you know him, ask Doug Grant about the worlds boats - he sailed them there in the master's event and sails from your beach. He's got H-16 experience going back to the early 80's.

The late 80's / early 90's H-16's are heavy and are undoubtably more durable because of it.

It's too bad you guys don't have the Division 10 regatta there anymore. You really should see what a fully tweaked out (but still class legal) H-16 looks like these days. The rigging and sailing techniques have changed significantly in the last 10 years. A boat older than 10 years (except the lightweight '84's and '85's) and sails older than 5 years are just not competitive anymore in the top echelon.

I can't vouch for the 18SX's, but any product can have problems. That's why the boats have warranties. And that's why Matt Miller has a job (he's the warranty guy at Hobie Cat).

It sounds what you guys lack on your beach is the collective knowledge that's usually passed down in a fleet from the experts to the novices - like how to tighten up your rudders without resorting to steel plates. I'm not trying to put you guys down - it's just that nobody from Hobie Fleet 115 travels to regattas anymore, so there's no real influx of new ideas and techniques.

I know Doug Grant in passing---I think he's a great sailor. He's a member of the sailing association but they are not at all sailing competitively, just recreationally, and then only whenever they seem to feel like it. (It's now basically a clannish little party club).

Doug also has a J24 he sails out of the harbor, and he may prefer that because he's got a bunch of kids to take along for the sail.

The sailing association here may have had their glory days, but they are long gone. Most people at our beach prefer recreational sailing (many are just too involved w/other things and have other priorities than competitive sailing regattas. So, from the ultra-competitive viewpoint, very few in Wilmette take cat sailing seriously enough.

Mbouds:

We have plenty of people with very good knowledge on how to tune a boat for racing. As to the steel plates, we had to put them on the boat for extra reinforcement because cracks were showing up on the hulls (where the rudders attach) and the area was getting very weak. In addition screw holes were getting larger (how many times can you put bigger screws in?). We had the plates made from precise drawings in a metal work shop, so they are not just crude things slapped on the boat. I mean, all the newer H16models now DO have reinforcement of the rudder attachment. I can almost guarantee that our thin stainless steel plate is stronger than the diecast thing Hobie provides.

What does anyone think of a 1989 18-foot Hobie? What were the problems of the era?

For what its worth and at the risk of sounding sexist, I think an TheMightyHobie18 may be a bigger, heavier and more powerful boat than you want for yourself and two kids.

The TheMightyHobie18 is a great all around boat. The 1984 and newer models are slightly lighter due to changes in construction. As for racing the TheMightyHobie18 won't keep up with the latest designs but you should still be in the pack and having fun, especially if you add a spinnaker. Most long-time racers have raced the TheMightyHobie18 at some point so it should be easy to get some help in properly setting it up. It will hold you and the two kids OK and in fact might need that much weight if the wind kicks up. You can also add wings to it if you desire. The biggest downside of the TheMightyHobie18 is it's weight. At 450 lbs you don't want to have to drag it around alot. The mast is also a bear to raise due to the diamond wires and it's height. It is best to use some sort of EZ stepper to raise it. You will also have to contend with the daggerboards, which can be a pain if your solo sailing or sail in a lot of shallow water.

On the other hand, they are really hard to kill! I love mine, the flexibility to race, to sail solo or to put 4 or 6 kids on it is great. I never have to worry that my guests will crush or break anything. It is extremely predictable- I have never gone over in 4 years, and it runs like a frieght train in a good wind.
The only design issue is the dagger boards, and that is just not a big deal if you keep an eye on them and simply remember not too sail onto the beach with them extended. The Hobie 18 is also cheap and plentifull these days, at least out here on the Left coast. It's the most popular boat in our fleet! We usually pull a few boats over and let the kids use them as dive platforms while waiting for the wind!

Hey Frenchie:
Welcome to the world of sailing when you want and meeting new friends. I am very familiar with the waters of Lake Erie; we sail off a beach on the western end near Buffalo. I currently have a Hobie 18 magnum which I consider the best boat for this lake because I can power through the waves (they can get high in this shallow lake) and still remain stable.

But, catwoman was correct on the weight thing. My daughter is about 125# and very athletic and sails her own Hobie 16 because she can move it around easily and with the use of a winch, she can load it back on her beach trailer by herself. Our beach (www.wnycatamaran.org) permit allows us to keep the boats on a trailer behind the sand dunes.

If you're going to be raising your mast each time, think about how you're going to do it. We use the trailer winch to help step our masts at the beginning of the season or when we travel to a race.

Wyatt

Catwoman:

Just a note on the shredded H18sx jibs: They were probably left up in the sun and that will kill them when they are put under higher winds. They should have a sail snorkel. I bet Rick will offer one. I know you find one at Murray's for around $80.

Wyatt

Hello MBounds. I would love to be a part of someone's crew, however, on April 23-24 it will be impossible. What are some future races?

frenchtwist,

Head to Hobie Fleet 276's 2005 events page here and let us know when you're available. There are several H-16 sailors in the fleet that need crews on a regular basis (your kids are welcome, too!). Let us know you are coming and we can get an extra boat or two for the kids to play on.

You can contact me directly via the private message feature on this website or at mbounds(at)comcast.net.

frenchtwist,

If things don't work out with Fleet 276, the Catamaran Racing Association of Michigan will be conducting 8 regattas in Michigan this summer, beginning the weekend of May 21 at Higgins Lake. CRAM's website is www.websitemagic.com/cram. The schedule is there with the NORs and a section where you can register as an available crew. There are also links to other clubs like OCRA (Ohio Catamaran Racing Assoc.). I hope this helps.

Oooooh, I wish I could crew in a REAL racing regatta with REAL boats. All we have here is a drinking club with clapped out boats that never races when it's actually really windy!

CatWoman,

2 solutions to that problem:

1) Have a regatta. Invite a whole bunch of people to come play in your backyard. (Easier said than done, though.)

2) Travel to a regatta. Get the thing on a trailer and hit the road. There's a CRAM regatta in Benton Harbor, MI (see either of the links above). There's also CRAW. They have a whole bunch of stuff in Wisconsin.

Wanna see a "real" regatta? Come to CatFight in Muskegon August 19-21. There'll be close to 100 boats there. (Trusty computer says it's only 214 miles.) Leave in the middle of the day on Thursday and you won't have to deal with Chicago traffic.

You can take either of your boats to any of these events.