Reefer Madness

This is a modern picture and there are reef points.
For this boat; question 1: After you set the reefing halyard lock, down haul thru the front reef point. bowline to the aft reef point with the outhaul line. Roll up the loose part of the sail with the batten in and run 1 continuous line thru all the reef points but only tied at the ends with half hitches. Don't point load the middle reef points. Shock cord also will work to keep the extra sail cloth rolled up. Down haul and out haul normally.
Also they reefed in the extreme sailing series at Cardif last week but the wind died after they reefed. The x 40s reef when mandated by the RC.

The Watertribe events require the ability to reduce sail. Some multihull teams have come up with a halyard extension that they would shackle to the head of the sail and connect that to the existing halyard ring. The sail would be rehoisted and the ring hooked like normal. The sail has a series of grommets matching that height difference so the sail can be lashed to the boom...and a large eye at the clew for the mainsheet attachement.

This does, however, require that the sail be completely lowered in order to attach the halyard extension.

I had a halyard extension fabricated out of alum flat bar, with a fork that slips over the head of the mainsail and is secured with a clevis pin, and a hole in the other end that the hlyd ring attaches to. This keeps the ring in the correct orientation to the main, to allow easy disengagement from the hook when lowering the mainsail.

The rolling and lashing of the excess sailcloth is tough to do cleanly, and it strikes me as mildly damaging to the sail, particularly laminate sailcloths. But unavoidable I guess, and the safety offered by the ability to reef is very valuable on large bodies of water. Downhaul system might need to be modified to attach to the new tack in a fashion that allows it to pull fairly directly.

The sail definitely needs to be modified to include new reinforced tack and clew grommets, as well as 2 or 3 grommets installed to allow a line(s) to be used to secure the excess material. The batten(s) will be parallel to the boom, so not a problem.

Having to drop the main to reef is problematic, considering the conditions you'll be in when it's needed. Keeping the main onboard while keeping the boat into the wind on a lumpy sea in a blow, is a challenge. As is getting it up again, and tidying up, still keeping the bows windward. Would be helpful if you could get to a lee shore to do all this, but that's not often an option.

So the system needs to be thought out, and tested before you need it. It's unlikely you're going to get a really good sail shape reefed, but the substantially reduced sail area is more of a safety feature than a performance item.

If you're looking high wind performance, consider having one built specifically for your boat/mast. I know Jay Glaser has experience with this, and I imagine most of the multihull sailmakers do too. But this option doesn't help you if you're caught out in increasing breeze with your full size main.

Dave

Hey Jeff! Where is Big Marine Lake? I get back to MN most summers, I spend a week or so on Lake Minnetonka, and try to get a sail in with the Fleet 444 guys who often sail on Lake Pepin.

I had a halyard extension fabricated out of alum flat bar, with a fork that slips over the head of the mainsail and is secured with a clevis pin, and a hole in the other end that the hlyd ring attaches to. This keeps the ring in the correct orientation to the main, to allow easy disengagement from the hook when lowering the mainsail.

The rolling and lashing of the excess sailcloth is tough to do cleanly, and it strikes me as mildly damaging to the sail, particularly laminate sailcloths. But unavoidable I guess, and the safety offered by the ability to reef is very valuable on large bodies of water. Downhaul system might need to be modified to attach to the new tack in a fashion that allows it to pull fairly directly.

The sail definitely needs to be modified to include new reinforced tack and clew grommets, as well as 2 or 3 grommets installed to allow a line(s) to be used to secure the excess material. The batten(s) will be parallel to the boom, so not a problem.

Having to drop the main to reef is problematic, considering the conditions you'll be in when it's needed. Keeping the main onboard while keeping the boat into the wind on a lumpy sea in a blow, is a challenge. As is getting it up again, and tidying up, still keeping the bows windward. Would be helpful if you could get to a lee shore to do all this, but that's not often an option.

So the system needs to be thought out, and tested before you need it. It's unlikely you're going to get a really good sail shape reefed, but the substantially reduced sail area is more of a safety feature than a performance item.

If you're looking high wind performance, consider having one built specifically for your boat/mast. I know Jay Glaser has experience with this, and I imagine most of the multihull sailmakers do too. But this option doesn't help you if you're caught out in increasing breeze with your full size main.

Dave

could you add a second halyard

hook

a bit down the mast and just hook the ring to that when reefing?

I'm thinking that if you're reducing sail due to conditions, you probably aren't as concerned about the perfect sail shape and therefore won't be using your 60:1 downhaul on maximum, but you do need some ability to keep the sail relatively flat.

I presume the hook won't rub the sail when not in use as the mast rotates enough to keep it off the laminate?

Can you roll the foot of the sail around the boom and reattach the mainsheet to keep the extra material out of the way? I would guess unless your roach is wider than the foot, you could get away with it...

All of this would take a little skill on the water, but you're supposed to reef early anyway. If you're expecting 30+, it'd probably be too late.

How about righting a boat that flips with a reefed main. Would it be more likely to go turtle without the sail at the top of the mast?

Gary Friesen had this all worked out for his Catalina crossings. A special and longer metal fitting for hooking the sail. Reefing points in the sail, new downhaul fitting and hey presto. All this is possibly available in the archives of the beachcats maillist?

Gary also prototyped and sold a special

walk the plank

righting device.

If we are going to sail upwind with a reefed mainail, the shape will be less than optimal due to the changed luff curve.

my friend used a

larger than beachcat sized

clutch that he could engage to hold his halyard in a reefed height and he had reef holes incorporated in his new mainsail.

PS his goal was to be able to handle florida summer pop up storms with his wife and young daughter onboard to get back to beach. I know he tested it but don't think he ever

needed it

.

I think he is racing sunday at the Union Regatta on our causeway and will try to get pics if i remember/see him on the beach prior to the start of the race

Dave,

Big Marine Lake is located in northeast Washington County.

There used to be an annual official Hobie regatta on the lake, until Ray Richardson sold his property into the Regional Park. Ray and Ray's neighbor let the regatta operate from their properties. (That regatta then moved to Green Lake, near Spicer.) Those were the days when Hobie sails were all sorts of colors. The lake looked like it was invaded by giant colorful butterflies. -Those are long gone days, now. Oh well...

In theory, I like the idea of reefing my Hobie 16. My old boats have the reef points on the sails and the reef slugs on the halyard. -But I worry about the risk of damage to the sails.

To refresh my concerns, I dug out my old Hobie 16 Assembly Manual (Part No. 2345-000 Revised 7-80, copyright December 1980, Price $4.00) This is a seperate manual, not the assembly manual that comes with the boat. On pages 24, & 25, it shows some nice pictures on reefing. But the reefing instructions still leave me with concerns about risk to the mainsail. Since I live on a lake, its just easier for me to wait for a less windy day.

But still, I am curious about reefing. If I ever get an extra, old blown out sail, I would then try it. It then would be good to have an extra boom for that extra sail. But with all this extra stuff, it might be more practical to have a sailmaker modify the sail to the size of a reefed sail, and use it as a storm sail. The storm sail would have continous attachment to the boom, instead of being held at just four reef points.

It may be that, on a Hobie 16, the reef points are about as useable as the boom vang. -They are good conversation pieces, while drinking beer.

Sure, when I'm windsurfing at sea above 30 kts, I've met the last 10 years more and more sailing yachts. Reefed mainsails, stormjibs, etc.
Look at the round the world races.The skippers are looking and waiting for stormy winds!

On a windsurfboard it's easy: you just have to pick the right sailsize. Down to 3.2/3.5 in the second half of 40+ kts. So, why shouldn't you do that on a beachcat???

I can only speak for sailing on the North Sea and there the limiting factor for 30+ is normally not the wind but the waves and the break!

With a beachcat you cannot pass a break anymore with breaking waves above 3 m. and a relative distance of less then 10 m.
On my sailing spot you have very shallow waters and even a few miles outside, the waves can still break in high winds.

That's the disadvantage of a sand-shore break versus a reef-break.

Last: when the wind is reaching 30+,the cat is often becoming very awkward to control on the beach. It starts to bounch, sailing on the sand, sometimes capsizing on shore. The sails are shaking and jerking, etc.

I have at least two old mainsails, but I never felt the urge of downsizing them to stormsails.
But I certainly would have, if my sailing spots where inshore water.

Back in the day, did anyone ever win a major Hobie race with a reefed sail?

Mike

No.

Did anyone ever win a

minor

Hobie race with a reefed sail?

While a reefed sail may give you an advantage upwind, it is almost always a detriment downwind. In a race where there is a combination of both, the result is almost always a draw.

That's one of the reasons that Hobie Cat eliminated the reef points on North American boats when they introduced the Comptip 30 years ago.

J.P.,
Since you are still thinking about this, i have a couple more pieces of info since i have reefed many H16s.
I can't remember what the manual says so i am wondering why you need 2 booms. The gooseneck shackle should attach to the new tack (forward reef point), The outhaul attaches to the new clew, but you should also tie a short line thru the clew around the boom to handle the mainsheet pressure. It becomes a loose footed sail. The other grommets are there to keep the excess sail from flapping around only.
Reefing a H16 is meant to be done on the beach.
A H14 sail is almost the same size as a reefed 16 sail and we used to just do that at the rental.
There was a heat at the H16 worlds in Corpus Christi in the 70s where a team reefed and won a heat. Hobie Sr. told me it was the only major 16 heat ever won while reefed. i wasn't there but have heard it was one rough event.
Most small boat sailors just figure out ways of dealing with the extra power of high wind, or they have a wind limit. As stated above the luff curve of the reefed sail doesn't match the new mast curve so sail shape suffers.
One thing to do is roll up the jib if you have like a TheMightyHobie18, or bring 3 people.

Thanks guys. By

race

I did indeed mean a single race/heat, not a regatta. It's been so long since that was an option, I'm sort of surprised anyone remembers, although I suppose if you lost to a reefed sail, that's something you'd never forget!

I wonder why they invested the money to include the option in the first place?

Mike

Northsea.junkie:

when you select the sail of today for the windsurfer, you probably have several sails and mast combos. At least I did when I windsurfed to flatten the sail and make the top twist off in the gusts. Will get kind of expensive and cumbersome to have several mast/sail combos on a cat <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

I have learnt to live with the fact that some days are windsurfer days, others are for beachcat sailing. Some days are even best spent in front of the fireplace with chocklate and a book. Yesterday was the perfect day to go kayaking as the sun was blazing and no wind whatsoever.

You also don't quite have the ability to actively tune a sail while underway on a windsurfer like you do on a beach cat. This is another reason that the windsurfers carry different sail and mast combos.

Okay, what I ment to say was that for me, at sea with on-shore or cross-onshore winds above +30kts, catsailing is almost impossible.
But on inshore water (or off-shore wind at sea) there should be possibilities to go further then 30 kts.

Because, comparing to windsurf sailing, the windspan of a catsail is much larger. I mean, I can use my one catsail from 10 kts to 30 kts.
For that same range there are at least 4 or 5 surfsails.

So, you possibly could use in catsailing just one smaller sail (like in the old days of windsurfing with a 4.7). And that sail you hoist up on the beach when needed. And it has of course the right luffcurve for your mast. Simply a sailchange onshore.

On a windy day you have this extra smaller sail with you in the car or even on your tramp. And we catsailors can always go ashore very easy!

Writing this down, I realise that I could do this for myself also. A smaller sail which I will hoist at say +25 kts., or even less if the wind is going to increase.

Thanks guys

30kts is a fukton of wind. Maybe for someone who is paid to sail it's a worthwhile endeavor. For me it means breaking stuff, capsizing multiple times in a short amount of time, and questioning why I'm out there. If I'm not having fun, which to me survival mode isn't, there's no reason to be out there.

When it's blowing above about 20kts. here on my lake, I'll put my Hobie 14 sail on my Prindle 18. The mast has a halyard cleat at the base, so I tie off the halyard there, the top of the sail is about 3' short of the mast head/hook. I can still downhaul it pretty flat. I also have a rolling jib on the Prindle 18, so I can use it downwind, and roll it up for upwind, if it's too windy. I'm almost always sailing it solo, so that's nice to have. Works great up to about 30kts. but that's on a flat water inland lake.

I wouldn't want to be out in the big ocean on a small cat in 30kts, even with a reefed sail, due to the wave action. Going downwind in those will flip you without any sail up at all!

I agree with Karl's sentiments above.

What is the upper wind limit for the Olympic classes in an Olympic regatta? I think they have one, right? Is it about 25, or less?

And what about the A cats?

Even the huge AC72's had an upper wind limit, I guess that's why we don't really need reefing at most regattas?

But Karl,

That is the point. When Dave Dahl, the ever-wrong weatherman predicts 5 to 15, and we actually get 15 to 25 with peak gusts of 30, is there a way to sail and still have fun?

I just HATE IT when you put up the sails and within 30 minutes, the gusts keep building to the point you just want to get back to shore safely and call it a day.

So far nobody's experience seems to support reefing as the answer. I didn't think of trying a H14 sail, but wouldn't it be a wonderful coincidence if the H14 sail size matched perfectly with the reefing slug on the H16 halyard ? Does it? Any two-boat owner out there willing to give it a try?

Jolly Roger,

The manual said nothing about a second boom, that was my thinking. I figured that if a got a 2nd beat-up sail just for reefing, I could tie it to the extra boom once, then it would be ready for a quick change.

It helps to be young for the 30knt pus stuff, and the water sort of flat. Other wise a 4.2-4.0 on a wave board would be the ticket even in big surf.
or some sort of ocean going boat double reefed with a 90 percent jib or something like that.
A 14 main is just a hair shorter than a reefed 16 main. It worked for us since you can still downhaul it ok. I can't imagine that the sizes have changed since the 80's when we used to rig one of the 16s with the 14 sail.

We're all just getting soft. There are places in the world where the wind blows over 25 just about every day, and people sail cats. They tend to do well at Worlds.

I used to enjoy heavy air on my H16, then got to the point that I wouldn't rig the boat if it was blowing 20 in the morning. I still love big air on the Wave, though.

Mike

Many moons ago I think Randy Smyth won a race or two at Tradewinds using his 18HT with a reefed mainsail.

I believe that was shortly before he ripped the entire transom off one hull. He may have won that race, too <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> (Starting to sound like Chuck Norris or Kenny Pierce sayings...)

If memory serves it was blowing steady high 20's with gusts into mid 30's (mph). Blackwater sound was relatively protected, but still had steep chop.

And it was about 40F that day... in Key Largo...

Could be that not everyone that bought one raced. Hobie also offered a roller furling jib for the 16. Racing is not the only reason to own a boat.

Gasp! Perish the thought <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

By the way, Jake, I may have found a new path around Cape Romano for your EC next year. Let me see if I can download the track from Saturday. It's skinny, but I never touched with the board 1/2 way down (maybe 3' draft?)

Would save you from going all the way out to the light before cutting east.

of course, a good storm will move all that sand anyway...