A bit late for this question but I'll put in my 5 cents worth. Anything that isn't as high tech. Sailors are lamenting the decline in numbers in their sport and those already hooked keep pushing the boundaries with lighter and more exotic materials...read expensive. If you seriously want to attract non sailors to sailing and get some of those that have left back you need a reasonably priced catamaran - ideally under $10 000 boat without all the gadgets ...ie an Aluminium mast, dacron sail or something reasonably cheap and basic rig. Believe it or not it's just as much fun sailing without an ultra light catamaran with exotic sail and rigging. I know that I am not able to afford one of these boats and going by the numbers coming into sailing neither are a lot of other people. I am not for one second saying that there shouldn't be classes of these types of boats but we are being suckered into thinking that this is the only option at the detriment of attracting people into sailing. Unless you are already hooked and can sail well the thought of spending $15-20000 for a second hand boat that you have no hope of sailing and more than likely totalling is just not on the cards...especially with a mortgage, growing family, being able to buy something that the whole family wants etc etc. As for the Tornado as the Olympic class It barely has a following based on the number of clubs sailing it and the cost of buying and maintaining it. Added to this is it's size...as you are no doubt aware housing blocks are getting smaller and there is nowhere to store something as large as the Tornado, which also limits the numbers who will move onto this class as their sailing ability increases. The Laser and Hobie 16 are fairly simple in their hulls and rigs and they were well recieved. I'd say follow this formula and select as they have done with the SL16 but keep it simple. Set a formula for the manufacturers with the same hull length, sail size etc and then select an Olympic class based on the value for money and performance of the contenders. Above all return the dream to the average sailor that they don't need a second mortgage to be competitive and that they have a chance to go to an Olympics. Just an opinion NickS
The cost of the boat is a small percentage of a 2 person Olympic campaign cost.
If they change the boats, what should they change to? I think I speak for most sailors when I say, “NOT THE BOAT I SAIL.”
One option for a cheap boat would be the Nacra 500 with spin kit which should run around $10-$11k with spin in the US. I think this is the cheapest halfway decent spin boat, at least in north america. I think the only step down in terms of cost would be the wave with spin or hooter.
You could throw the SL16 in there which will be a bit more money for a very similar boat.
Folks,
As has been stated, the COST of the boat is low compared to the cost of doing the campaign IF you are serious. The days of just showing up to the Olympic Trials and thinking you can be competitive are long gone. It is so tiring to hear people say
well I would consider it if they would pick a boat that is affordable
. If you can't afford the boat, you cannot come even close to the cost of the campaign.
The Tornado is a polished, durable, and dynamic boat that reflects our sport well. Leave it alone.
Bob Hodges
A-Class USA 230
If you want to make the Olympic dream more accesable..... Make it a requirement that competitors must work a minimum 5 days a week, 8 hours a day in a non industry job. No sponnsorship and must be true amatures.
Not likely to happen though.
As has been stated, the COST of the boat is low compared to the cost of doing the campaign IF you are serious. The days of just showing up to the Olympic Trials and thinking you can be competitive are long gone.
The Tornado is a polished, durable, and dynamic boat that reflects our sport well. Leave it alone.
Bob Hodges
A-Class USA 230
Well said Bob. I stated much the same in earlier threads. leave the boat alone. Focus on setting up funds, foundations, grants and so-on to help defray campaigning costs. Look at sailor development programs that are in place to ensure that there is a concentrated effort on youth development. (Oh yeah, we don't have one for cat's do we?) And get the word out about multihull sailing, racing and so-on. Take some of your mono-sailors out and give them a thrill. There must be ways to increase the focus on this side of the sport. What can we do as multihull sailors to help promote this sport and insure that it has Olympic representation?
My post was probably put under the wrong title when I wrote it and I can understand that someone that already owns a Tornado would not want to have any change to the classes sailed presently especially with the investment already made. My post was more to do with catamaran sailors wanting other non sailors and those that have left sailing to buy and sail catamarans. My point was that we shoot ourselves in the foot by constantly refining the catamarans that we sail making them more expensive and daunting for the beginner sailor. By all means continue as you are but don't expect many new converts to Catamarans if you make them too expensive and difficult to sail.
The only problem I have with the Tornado is one of size. As I have already stated, housing block size is getting smaller and a 20' x 10 or so foot catamaran takes up a lot of space...I have a set of older unfinished hulls sitting in my shed. The size alone would limit the number of sailors contemplating buying one.
All sailboats are under constant refinement and new designs are coming out all the time, so what is the difference between cats and other boats? And are they more expensive? Probably not that much. And I don't think that new boats are difficult to sail, actually I think they are easier.
I really don't agree with you on the cost factor. Just look at all the people dropping $10k+ on jet skis. And if cost were a factor, then there would be a million people on windsurfers..but barely anyone sails them either.
Having sailed a score of dinghies and skiffs and beach catamarans I can say that a very large portion of the skiffs and dinghies is not less expensive then beach cats and are often more difficult to sails.
To name but a few examples : F16 vs 49-er/RS800. F16 wins both in costs and ease in addition to being faster.
Tornado vs 18 foot skiff, just no comparison with the exception of the pucker factor as in that area the 18 wins.
Hobie 14 vs laser vortex; Hobie 14 (despite being a 40 year old design) wins in all categories.
The only dinghy that the cats have no comparable equivalent for is the laser 1. But the F12 could completely change that.
Wouter
F12????? Is this an anouncement??
And what do you know ... !
Take a look at this :
![[Linked Image]](http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/104683-windkart.jpg)
Notice the free standing rig. It is very similar to what we were thinking of doing on the F12.
Also check out the video on their homepage
http:/
Check out the other video's at their video page, especially the riders video (click on "video playlist in the bottom right hand corner of the video window)
http:/
The boats seems to have good speed (despite it weighting 110 kg = 240 lbs). Figure an F12 at 60 kg !
for its specs scroll down this page
http:/
Length : 3,65 m / 12 ft
Beam : 2,25 m / 7,4 ft
Weight : 110 kg / 242 lb
Draught: 0.59 m /2 ft
Crew : 1 - 2
Boom : 2,50 m
Sail area: from 8,50 m²
Sailing from 3 to 30 knots of wind
The latest version of the F12 had :
Length : 3,70 m / 12.1 ft
Beam : 1.85 m / 6.07 ft
Weight : 60 kg / 132 lb
Draught: 0.50 m /2 ft
Crew : 1 - 2 (max 120 kg)
Boom : 2.00
Sail area: from 7,50 m²
Wouter
Ian Marcovitch (sp?) Red Head Sails....... 'Glider' also available with spinnaker.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/104692-Gjpeg.JPG)
14 foot and not really a laser-1 like sailcraft.
It is more like a scaled down regular beachcat with all the disadvantages attached to it. Ans it is also 14 feet if I remember it correctly.
Nice design though, nothing wrong with that.
Wouter
I thought it was a12 footer but may be wrong..... Will find out.
Not a Laser but quiet light, narrow and very manageable for 2 young kids or one larger kid with trap and spinnaker
Please find out and correct me when needed. I is quite a time ago that I worked with the glider. I tried to have it imported to Europe by a friend who now runs a importing/dealorship for another brand of cats (not F16)
I failed at that.
Wouter
First of all, it is the size of a tornado that I truly love. I understand your storage issues, but that 10" beam is great. Yes I have difficulty with transportation, no tilt trailer and do not care to always have to break it down and then reassemble it. It is worth it though. Love the boat. So those unfinished hull are for a tornado? What are they made of and do you want to relieve yourself of their trouble?